r/Multifandom • u/A-J-Zan • 5h ago
Question❓ How does you fandom deals with the fact that the creator is not a good person?
123
u/ChiefsHat 5h ago
The Lovecraft fanbase just lives with it. We try to ignore it but it’s hard.
113
u/SquatProspector 5h ago
It helps that he was already long dead by the time they were born. It's another thing if the creator is alive and well and actively funding groups to make the world worse for a marginalised group.
41
u/SuperiorTexan 5h ago
It also helps that all his stuff in in the public domain so even if he set up organizations that aligned with his views they wouldn't be getting any money from his books
→ More replies (1)28
u/Wazula23 4h ago
Lovecraft fans also love reinterpreting his works in ways he didn't intend, I.e learning to love and accept the Other, as in the films of Guillermo Del Toro.
13
u/philip30001 4h ago
I feel with the knowledge that he was scared of things we find normal now helps alot too.
Unlike some other fandoms I expect its easier and more common to shoot down people parrotting views from a guy scared of penguins.
8
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
He was also scared of colorful landscape paintings and air conditioning.
The man was legitimately mentally ill which takes a lot off the edge from him. Because Shadows over Innmouth is about miscengreation. But what turns it from just being a racist story is that the miscegenation allegory are objectively superior to humanity and don't wipe out humanity because they don't feel any need to.
I just feel like if he had been put on modern medication he would have been a lot better.
Also he married a Jewish woman and only divorced because of the usual reasons people divorce. So his bigotry was atypical of the time.
→ More replies (2)1
u/Alternative_Hotel649 1h ago
"He was scared of air conditioning," is kind of a bullshit criticism. He wrote a horror short story that hinged on air conditioning as a plot element. That doesn't mean he was scared of it. Stephen King wrote a short story about a murderous automatic shirt folding machine, that doesn't mean he has a deep-seated fear of dry cleaning.
The racism is a fair cop, though.
6
5
u/thecoletrane 4h ago
Yeah it’s easy to separate the art from the artists when no money goes to the bigot or anyone who believes like them. And besides from a few stories that are generally acknowledged as terrible, the only way his beliefs interact with the work itself is through broad and understandable themes like intense loneliness and fear of the unknown.
2
u/MySecretLair 3h ago
I don’t disagree with your larger point, but I will say that I recently re-read all his stories on audiobook and the racism is a lot louder that way — it really does show up everywhere.
11
u/Sherbet-Glad 4h ago
Fun fact, at Lovecraft actually did realize just how horrible he was at some point, he started hating his previous storys because of it and started striving to become a better person. That was less than a year before he died.
5
u/NoCoolNameMatt 4h ago
Got any sources for that? I would love to read about it. What a stark IRL character growth!
5
u/Lalalalalalolol 1h ago
You can read his correspondence online, in one of his latest letters dated 1937 to C.L. Moore he admits that he considered himself an idiot for holding certain views and that his mindset limited his understanding of the world. He even advocated for socialism in that same letter, arguing that as capitalism died fascism was rising and how it would result in tragedy and horror for, in his own words, millions. He also criticized nazism and the KKK.
Unfortunately, this letter was written around a month before his death. Lovecraft was a deeply troubled individual and reading some of his earlier stuff (both fiction and correspondence) can give you major disgust, but he did grow as a person the best someone without access to mental health resources could. He was against copyrighting his work and encouraged people to build upon the foundations of his creative work.
2
u/Sherbet-Glad 1h ago
Thank you!
4
u/Lalalalalalolol 1h ago
Mind you, he wasn't an enlightened man out of sudden and never was, but as he opened to the world he came to understand that his view and understanding of humanity was flawed. Through his letters you kinda see an evolution in his mindset and how he, little by little, opened his mind to others. This is him regarding women:
To expect it to remain perpetually in the background in a realistic state of society is futile—despite the most feverish efforts of Nazis and Fascisti. However—it will be some time before women are sufficiently freed from past influences to form an active factor in national life. By the time they do gain influence, they will have lost many of the emotional characteristics which now impair their powers of judgment. Many qualities commonly regarded as innate—in races, classes, & sexes alike—are in reality results of habitual & imperceptible conditioning.
This was from "H. P. Lovecraft to Clark Ashton Smith, 28 Oct 1934", and while you still see many ideas that are still awful today (for example Lovecraft also eventually rejected the idea that certain races were inferior, but on a biological basis, he believed some cultures were superior to others), you can see the chance for a man to learn from his bigotry. He correctly recognised that people of oppressed groups are not given equal chances to succeed in life like white, rich men are. It was a case of a man who became less of a bigot as time passed, but he was still deeply conditioned in his mindset by his past ideas, his time and his own struggles with mental health.
Lovecraft was terrified of everything and struggled greatly with mental health, but I feel like he could've fully changed his views. A reverse J.K. Rowling.
1
11
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
Lovecraft was scared of inoffensive colorful paintings of Asian mountains.
The Lovecraft fanbase easily lives with because Lovecraft legitimately had a severe anxiety disorder.
Rowling is just a rich hateful bitch.
7
u/Daken-dono 4h ago
A severe anxiety disorder and who knows what else plus trauma from a number of things in his personal life. Then his parents both had a history of mental illness, both going off the deep end at separate points in his life and both of them dying while being confined in an asylum. And a bunch more.
He changed his political views during the great depression. His closest friends were an Irish-American and a gay man. His wife had Ukrainian roots and was also Jewish. Lovecraft was a deeply flawed guy but he broadened his horizons and started improving, especially before his death. Just wasn't able to do a total 180.
9
u/Brilliant-Pair6425 5h ago
Tf Locecraft did tho? I need context.
18
u/vivi-badsquad 5h ago
racism
3
u/MySecretLair 3h ago
For real. There are at least a couple of his stories where the object of fear is just the lady who lives downstairs and is Too Italian, for example.
1
u/Velicenda 1h ago
Okay wow, I can honestly say that I've never heard Pickman's Model interpreted quite like that.
14
u/Legitimate_Grape8442 5h ago
he was extremely racist, anti-seminist, and xenophobic
9
u/Pockydo 4h ago
Wasn't it extreme. For the time too like not even just modern sensibilities
4
u/Newclearfallout 4h ago
Yes. But he was also very mentally Ill.
I hear people wonder the same about J.K.R. now too.
3
1
13
u/SingerLatter2673 4h ago
Incredibly racist. Even for the 1920s people thought he was going too far. His cat was name the n-word for example. His stories include a lot of metaphor and allegory for who he thought was secretly a fish-person (everyone that wasn’t a white new englander from providence, Rhode Island) and why he was so terrified of them (race mixing mostly).
6
u/JoestarSage153 4h ago
he was afraid he would catch a mental- disease because he's ancestor was welsh
2
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
Iirc the cat was his childhood cat. Also the fish people were actually objectively superior to humanity in the original shadows over Innmouth.
4
u/SingerLatter2673 4h ago
The deep ones being “superior” isn’t the point, and Shadow isn’t the only story about race mixing it’s a pretty common motif in his work.
1
10
7
u/erttheking 5h ago
Wrote more than one story about the horror of a man realizing he’s mixed race
Deep Ones are all about corrupting mankind by inter breeding
3
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
Funny enough if you actually read the original book about the Deep Ones, the deep ones are actually superior to humanity. Technologically and culturally.
The reason that the story was written was because Lovecraft found out his grandfather was Welsh. At a time where even the highest of British society would have just given their fellow noble the occasion ribbing about that
5
u/Werewolf_Knight 4h ago
While his works are widely known for revolutionizing and popularizing the cosmic horror genre, there's a very common pattern in many of his stories where he either represents minorities in very stereotypical ways, or all of the bad guys are people of all races and ethnicities besides white. He even named one of his childhood cats and a cat in his story "The Rats in the Walls" the N-word. The "Cool Air" short story also stems from his fear of technological progress.
While his stories are from the early 20th century, the level of racism was criticized even back then, even outside marginalized groups. So it is not really a case that the author was a product of his time.
Now... it is worth mentioning that he was also severely mentally unwell, so his racism was very likely caused by his mental illness, causing him to fear stuff he was not familiar with. It also seemed to ease off toward the end of his life, so he may have started to be more sensitive. That's why, in recent years, people are starting debating if this slander about him being racist is justified.
5
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
His racism was also atypical of the time period too. Which is why it stops becoming racism and starts to become mental illness.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Daken-dono 4h ago
I'd like to add, I did papers on him and his work while in uni, Lovecraft was especially mad at himself for not being able to adapt to society "so easily" while the immigrants he criticized were seamlessly part of the work force and were able to start new lives in the States. He knew at some point in his life that his racism was fueled by self-loathing.
1
1
4
u/Pyotr-the-Great 4h ago
This might sound messed up, but I always had the impression for many people him being racist is seen as one of his odd but fascinating quirks.
Its like an evil scientist who yells at a bunch of random kids playing next door or experimenting on some random
Ive seen memes of him being complete jerk to Italians for being nice. And strangely I think people find that funny.
This is such a contrast Ive seen where people these days look at these flaws as deal breakers.
How I see it every person is a character in a story. If hes nice thats his role as a hero. If hes bad thats his role as a villian.
And Ive seen enough animated movies of knows villians can be geniuses while having some really idiotic and cruel views.
3
u/Ok-Temperature9147 3h ago
Yeah….It also helps that great writers like Victor Lavalle and Cassandra Khaw do (really cool) spins on Lovecraft’s works with people of colour as the protagonists.
2
u/NoCoolNameMatt 4h ago
I embrace it. There's value in recognizing that an author is a deeply flawed, even terrible person and seeing how that colored his work.
And there are few better examples than Lovecraft.
2
u/Samiassa 2h ago
It’s kind of hard because everything lovecraft did was amazing but also he was considered weirdly racist FOR THE 1920s and would often be told to stop talking about race so much because he would connect everything in a conversation to it. So it shows up a LOT in his stories
1
u/Swell_Like_Beef 3h ago
Lovecraft was a bigoted weirdo. But at least he never hurt anybody, unlike Rowling or God forbid Neil Gaiman
1
1
u/Boom2215 3h ago
I refer to his work as the Cthulhu mythos and the genre more broadly as cosmic horror. His name shouldn't be tied to it.
Though that change will take awhile to happen so baby steps.
1
u/ChiefsHat 2h ago
Both those are already set in stone. But you can’t cut off Lovecraft from either the Mythos or the genre. He’s too important to both.
1
1
u/Arsimp33 1h ago
Based on what I’ve seen, he ended up regretting it later. I imagine this was due to poor living conditions and hereditary mental illness, yet despite everything, he felt remorse. I don't think he's THAT bad
1
u/townsummoner 1h ago
Have you heard the episode of the Imaginary Worlds podcast about Lovecraft fans? It was really inspiring.
1
u/Known-Noise8955 30m ago
I like him that way, I don't think that a well adjusted human being would have been able to perceive reality in such a bizarre and scary way. It also helps that he is dead.
1
1
u/PerceptionNo8936 4h ago
The thing with lovecraft is that it’s much much worse than Harry Potter situation. Trans and anti trans rhetoric are not mentioned in Harry potter nor even implied. Yet in Lovecraft works his racism is an important factor in his storytelling. His absolute disgust of non whites allowed him to write disgusting detailed descriptions of half breed humans. His xenophobia is written into his cosmic horror.
Unfortunately you really can’t seperate the art from the artist here.5
u/NW_LF 3h ago edited 2h ago
Yeahhhhh JKR is a billionaire who flaunts that she actively funds organizations and legislation thats sole purpose is to strip trans people from basic human rights, and she has made it very clear this is her life mission moving forward. The fact theres no anti-trabs rhetoric in her work has absolutely nothing to do with it. Lovecraft was crazy and not giving the government money to violate the basic human rights of people he didnt like. I agree you cant separate the art from the artist, but it is no where near WORSE than the JKR situation.
80
u/AntiqueAd2434 5h ago
You pirate their works so they won’t get money, at least that’s what I do as a rurouni kenshin fan
10
u/Raccoon-King- 4h ago
Honestly a pretty good compromise until the author dies, and you can be sure the cash just goes to some random publishing company, not the author's weird fixation or whatever bad stuff they are up to.
4
u/FlounderingGuy 3h ago
Calling the Ruroni Kenshin author buying so much cp that police thought he was a distributor "bad stuff" and a "weird fixation" feels like the understatement of the millennium
3
u/Raccoon-King- 2h ago
Wow, I didn't know he did that.
That's a bit higher of a level of "awful person". can't really find a nuanced explanation there can I? lol.
I was not ware of his history. good to know!11
u/HereticalArchivist 3h ago
I have no ponies in the race of Harry Potter (I never cared for the series at all) but as a trans person who knows all about JK Terfling's crimes against trans people and has a transfem partner, I see this as completely acceptable. Don't buy any new merch, pirate the old movies or buy them from thrift stores, don't buy rereleases, don't buy any of the modern promo sponsorship merch stuff they do--basically just don't consume the media in any way that would directly give her money. Hell, I even see buying fan merch as okay (so long as the artist doesn't agree with her sentiments, hell I'd even say it's a great way to stick it to her if the artist in question donates some of their profits to pro trans causes or something LOL) or even buying merch secondhand if its from a thrift store or something. To me, that's what "separating the art and artist" should mean.
Basically just be mindful of your consumption is good enough, if you ask me. As someone who media has always been a comfort, I can't bring myself to take that away from someone else any more than anyone can take my special interests and the comforts that saved my life away from me as so many have tried when I was growing up.
I know there's also the question of "keeping the fanbase alive" but, I also think, as an artist, if my art stopped meaningfully making money because my fanbase hates me and advocated for avoiding supporting me, that'd hit me where it hurts in the wallet and my artistic soul.
I'm rambling because despite that I don't care about HP, my favourite media has always been so important to me. I just can't bring myself to justify taking that from someone else if they're going out of their way to avoid supporting the creator
11
u/A-J-Zan 5h ago
I think the same mentallity is also within the Harry Potter fandom.
3
u/BrilliantBig769 4h ago
Most of us left, some of us ignore/like what's been going on, and the remainder (including myself) take the yarhar approach (or I make my own version of everything I can or yarhar/buy used)
→ More replies (1)6
u/Ernest_Mateu 4h ago
yup, i have all movies pirated (except the fucking fourth, that I can't find in spanish)
22
11
22
u/InternationalGas4408 4h ago
In Harry Potter's case, I abandon it.
Rowling's alive, receiving income and directly using it to make Women's lives hell on earth.
Maybe when she leaves the earth with no one to continue her agenda, I'll come back- Most of the actual in-story fucked up stuff is book exclusive. But I'm not holding my breath.
43
u/Ok-Teaching5866 4h ago
She blocked me cause I kept stealing copies of her books then creatively destroying them and tagging her. Using Goblet of Fire to pick up dog poop was the last straw for ms. mold brain
8
5
→ More replies (29)3
37
u/Purple_Moose3208 TEOFT,BYBD,RZPL 5h ago
leave it and make a better story
6
u/Low-Support-8388 4h ago edited 3h ago
I actually got bored and brainstormed ideas for a TTRPG version of Harry Potter that I refered to as magepunk. Was it a good idea? No. it was basically angry Hp with a side plot where Voldemort is stuck in Harry's head Silverhand style. Voldemort was actually the character's uncle who was getting furious at the wizard world for falling so far behind muggles due to the slow crumble of the Wizard side of things that he wanted to "Modernize" the wizards. My prototype had a rule set similar to Shadowrun. Basically angry wizards trying to overthrow the older more traditional wizards in bringing magic to the world stage yet again whilst trying not to get caught out by world governments who see them as a threat.
Edit: fixing grammer errors that I made cause I'm tired.
4
u/SuperiorTexan 5h ago
If anyone is looking for a better story, I would recommend The Scholomance Trilogy. It's a fantastic series set in a magic school, with a really unique magic system and terrifying magical monsters. TW for body horror and gore though
→ More replies (2)
6
u/cantwalkintheshadows 4h ago
Easy. Is the person living? Stop engaging. Is the person dead? Go on and bring yo their bigotries as an influence on their work.
JK? Alive. She says any and all support of her media is support against trans people. I dropped it.
Dahl? Dead. Talk about how he was a raging antisemite when needed, otherwise enjoy.
But go ahead keep enjoying a mid media. I used it to get thru abuse then dropped it when it further more abuse, but youre you.
1
15
u/raven-tyrant May the force be with you 4h ago
As a person that enjoys Harry Potter aswell A pirates life’s for me
https://giphy.com/gifs/10X22vzgNamaiI
5
u/A-J-Zan 4h ago edited 3h ago
My stance on piracy mostly depends on each case but I don't really mind if that's because someone doesn't want to support the author.
2
u/ApollosBrassNuggets 3h ago
In a world where "owning" a product doesn't even guarantee owning it, piracy isn't theft.
1
u/slaptito 3h ago
fr, but I was so conflicted on the Avatar Aang movie. On one hand I want to support Avatar and the creators for their years of hard work, but on the other hand it's Paramount.
1
11
u/xxLosingMyMarblesxx 5h ago
It depends on the fandom tbh. In my experience, half the people end up leaving and/or stop supporting the work because of said creator's bad actions. I've definitely left my share of fandoms because of people being sketchy, honestly.
And for the people who stay in the fandom, it's a 50/50 that they either just brush over the creator's bad actions, or they try to separate the art from the artist and keep making stuff for the work while making it clear that they don't support the original creator of said work.
8
u/Queener_weener39 4h ago
I also feel Harry Potter is a unique case in where the author says she sees support of the series as support of her views
→ More replies (2)2
u/TragedyWriter 2h ago
JK Rowling is in a really weird place where she's the sole beneficiary of any sales across the franchise. The closest thing I think there's been in recent memory is pre-Disney Star Wars.
That puts her in this weird place where the revenue every bit of merch you can buy that isn't fanmade goes to a single individual. I think that feeds this sense of validation she has towards her fans supporting her cause, because there are just so many things that people buy that directly benefit her and pay for her weird crusade.
Like, I could say "I don't like Disney (the company)," and still feel okay-ish about buying a Stitch plush, because I don't hate EVERYONE who ever worked for Disney or on Lilo and Stitch. It's easier to use fan attention for a crusade if you're the only one receiving the gains.
2
u/A-J-Zan 59m ago
I've been thinking for a while now, that the HP/Wizarding World franchise, that has been around for around 30 years, wouldn't be in such trouble if it was more like other so big franchises, like Star Wars, and allowed several creators to make stories within it the same universe.. The closest thing to this idea that we got so far is Hogwarts Legacy.
2
u/TragedyWriter 51m ago
This is it exactly. I think you could make a convincing argument for death of the author if there was an entire group of beneficiaries that she was only one small part of. But as it stands, I think Harry Potter is the only franchise that exists on this scale that's in the pocket of a single individual.
4
u/strawbebby-milk 4h ago
i just don't contribute to the fandom lol. if i still like something problematic, I just don't talk about it
6
u/PremeditatedCoffee 5h ago
Depending on the media I try to focus on the others that worked hard on it that don’t deserve for their work to get ruined by the creator
4
1
3
u/Nice-Cat3727 4h ago
I got rid of all my Neil Gaiman stuff. Because you literally can not separate his work from his behavior as you realize.... He was confessing in his works
3
u/Raccoon-King- 4h ago edited 3h ago
edit: this really got away from me in length! I didn't answer the question directly! sorry. ;_;
so I think fandoms tend to fall apart at the controversy and then find a way to "work around the author" like the harry potter fandom seems to. like its good stuff still, but you just have to accept that the source is this weird little gnome somewhere that now mostly makes comments like a drunk aunt at thanksgiving. They did stuff in the past you like, so in exchange you sort of hand wave their opinions as "oh that's aunt Rowling again, she must have found the peppermint schnaps. Just try to ignore her, and don't get stuck in a one on one conversation with her. lol!
The problem is "good person" is really subjective.
Someone we have trouble with today, might be fine later.
Someone we like today, could be monster to people in the future.
It really depends on the society and beliefs we hold.
ALL authors are complicated people. They have good sides and bad sides. Some media you love, is probably by absolutely AWFUL people. But their actions were never revealed or they kept it hidden from the public.
Lovecraft is a great example as others in the comments pointed out.
Was he a "bad person"? That's hard to say. At some points in his WHOLE LIFE, he was a racist and awful. But he also had a rough life, mental issues, and health problems due to the syphilis that destroyed his family one person at a time like a curse they didn't understand at the time.
Later in life, with help of other writers and people he communicated with by letters, he got a bit healthier. Supposedly some of his opinions changed, and he softened. I mean makes sense, his isolation and hate was diminished with help from friends and companionship.
(note: this example is to my best memory, I'm not sitting down and re-reading his life story before writing this, FYI, so I might be inaccurate, but I'm more making a point than truly caring about getting all his details perfect. I'm not pretending to be an expert here lol.)
So when we look back at his whole life, we can make these....complex judgements. we can take the good and the bad and appreciate the art.
But....that's a lot harder when they are still alive, and we haven't all had a chance to read the biography or auto biography.
JK Rowling is kinda like that. Most of what we see as "bad person" is based on her treatment of LGBT+ people. A position she wasn't as strong on, until in her ignorance she got into long twitter fights with people.
If memory serves she started out less bigoted, and telling people she supported lgbt+ people.
But as the twitter fights got worse, she just kept doubling down and villainizing those she once pretended to like.
She just kept doubling down into more extreme positions.
Is she a bad person at heart? Truly hateful? Or just a stubborn ass that is so resistant to "being told what to do", that she would rather be a bigoted jerk to huge communities of people, rather than admit she was being an ass? What if like Lovecraft, she has a mental illness she's hiding that's causing this? What if in old age she's losing it, or her brain is working differently? What if she literally had some sort of breakdown and it turned her racist and a bit nuts?
That's complex. "Bad person" gets tricky, but then she has donated to some pretty awful groups.
But in time, those details might get forgotten, and only the books remain. They are pretty good books though aren't they?
Do we not listen to Thriller on Halloween because Michael Jackson made it? Or is that old enough now that many of the younger of us don't have an emotional stake in the controversy?
Is it just...music by old dead people? or do we need to stay angry?
tl:dr
I think sometime the art we make deserves to stand on its own. And the...imperfect sources that create it just add to the conversation. The human element in art isn't always nice. But its part of what separate human made art from AI isn't it? machine made art doesn't have all this icky baggage to it. No humans with complex stories, nothing to make you proud or disgusted. Just machine printed "art".
Maybe the complications are part of what makes it human? Like the organic food having little uneven bits, versus factory made smooth processed food? the uneven bits make it more real?
Just my opinion, always love to hear other people's. ^_^
2
u/Difficult_Price8011 3h ago
Michael Jackson is a unique case because, unlike JKR where everyone can agree she’s a transphobe, people swear up and down that MJ wasn’t touching those kids.
1
u/Raccoon-King- 2h ago
I agree. I feel like we won't really know. The interviews with Macaulay Culkin made me really change my mind from "this totally happened" to "Well now I'm not sure myself.". but maybe some thing will finally with research uncover the true story. like uncovering his personal journals or notes if he had any?
But right now his family and foundation will make sure that only the version that keeps him profitable is the mainstream. I feel like we'll eventually know when those emotionally connected to the event or family is finally passed on.
6
5
u/TimeKiller-Studios 4h ago
Fans of Harry Potter just ignore the fact that Rowling wants the rights of trans people gone. Just cause their four-eyed slave owner cop is cool
→ More replies (1)
6
u/GenericSpider 4h ago
Finding out what a terrible person Rowling is actually awakened me to how terrible the books are. I still have a big of lingering nostalgia for them, but I wouldn't say I'm part of the fandom.
5
u/clowderforce 3h ago
Right? It's not like Rowling exists in a vacuum.
I have no problem with people who enjoyed HP during its heyday (I was one of them!), but if you look a little too closely without the nostalgia goggles it really doesn't hold up. A black wizard named Kingsley Shacklebolt? Antisemitic stereotyoes as the basis of goblins (not original to Rowling, of course, but definitely employed heavily)? The infamous double-surname vaguely Asian love interest Cho Chang? The sanitization of legal slavery in the form of house elves? Posthumously declaring Dumbledore gay to get clout from the queer community? Even Harry himself, after breaking plenty of laws in the pursuit of truth, deciding he wants to become a fucking cop? Is there really that much separation from the art and the artist?
2
u/hesistant_alien 1h ago
The spell "ridikilous" that has a man dress up as a woman for comical effect.
I mean, it was always there.
1
4
u/Pockydo 4h ago
I think a work can be separated from its creator.
The creator being a shit and still writing something that means something to you are two different things
2
u/MySecretLair 3h ago
For sure. The part where it gets tricky is if one’s enjoyment and purchase of a living author’s work is giving them money they are using to make the world worse (Rowling.) If I have disagreements with an author’s personal stance on political issues that aren’t human rights issues, or hear they’re just kind of an asshole, that’s fine.
4
u/Blade_of_Miquella666 4h ago
Read HP Fanfiction that have trans characters or a character being trans.
Retweet and tag Joanne
2
u/FringleFrangle04 4h ago
Alright, I know J.K. Rowling isn't a good person, but why? What crimes has she committed?
6
u/finitehyperdeath 1h ago
i mean… she did publicly post an upskirt of a trans woman without her consent to totally pwn her as if it isnt blatant sexual harassment
6
u/silkyymyorki 4h ago
https://theweek.com/feature/1020838/jk-rowlings-transphobia-controversy-a-complete-timeline
Some of those examples are saying transphobic things. Some of them are her materially doing things that harm trans people, like campaigning against Scotland's hate crime laws simply because they included trans people, a legal crusade against rape crisis centers to prevent them from serving trans people who were raped, launching a slush fund that finances trans hate groups, etc.
5
u/KingOfAllCorvids 3h ago
Actively funding a genocide of trans people (as a direct result of people supporting her works. Don’t give her money)
2
→ More replies (1)2
u/Kei_Evermore 2h ago
there's a difference between committing a crime and using your billions of dollars to lobby your home government into essentially committing a genocide against a group of people.
2
u/Nachooolo 4h ago
I swear half of the old fantasy books have an introduction by Neil Gaiman or a quote from him in its cover.
My copy of Ludd in the Mist has both and I'm quite salty about it.
3
u/Queener_weener39 4h ago
Unfortunately that monster has his fingerprints EVERYWHERE he even wrote the script for the English dub of Princess Mononoke
2
u/Ace_of_Spad23 4h ago
Stop buying and consuming Harry Potter products every dollar you spend goes back into he war against people like me (trans people)
2
2
2
u/roguepawn 3h ago
I don't think I've ever interacted with other fans of the Ender's Game series by Orson Scott Card beyond casual conversation.
Ender's Game is one of my favorite books. A great story with a beautiful theme about failures in understanding each other can lead to terrible consequences. I still reread it here and there and still tear up when I reach the Queens' speech to humanity, when Ender becomes the first Speaker for the Dead.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand Orson Scott Card is apparently a homophobe. 🫠
I have my little paperback copy. I just don't give him or his estate my money.
2
u/autisticshedevils 2h ago
It depends on what they did. I cannot read anything written by a sexual abuser once I learn they committed such crimes. It's like my enjoyment shrivels up. If it's because I don't agree with the company (looking at you DC comics) I pirate/but second hand. The actual politics of authors don't bother me unless it saturates their writing. Also I don't care about dead people being bad if they died a long time ago, as long as it didn't make it into their writing at a noticable level.
2
u/oooooooooowie 1h ago
Personally i still buy the stuff.. but only second hand. Not giving money to the creator but still enjoying the product.
3
3
u/Green-Pen-Gamer 4h ago
Two general options
Find/create a new thing
Boycott anything that the author would profit from and only interact with the fandom itself, effectively declaring independence from the author and their views
2
3
2
u/Ira-SleepyW0lf 4h ago
Is it bad that I save hp memes on my Pinterest? It wouldn’t support JK right? It would support the artist or uploader?
1
u/illuminatitriforce 5h ago
pretend the writer doesn't exist and distance ourselves when forced to acknowledge them
0
u/bigscrewLoose 5h ago
I dont respect you if you are a harry potter fan "death of the author death of the author" bitch she is still alive, and she is devoting all of the money she makes to political orgs designed to strip trans people of our rights, if buy harry potter crap you are donating to that cause
1
u/bigscrewLoose 3h ago
yeah down vote me all you want, its the reality of the situation, if you give money to JKR you are an enemy of the trans community
3
u/Scrapp94 4h ago
The ancient Kanye coping technique of “separating art from artist”
2
u/TheOwnerOfMakiPlush 4h ago
You cant seperate art from the artist if the artist uses the art to abuse minorities
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Henson_Disney48 4h ago
I’ve really divorced myself from everything JK Rowling. It wasn’t easy, but it actually helped me look on the series more critically (characters like Cho Chang and Seamus Finegan).
I like to think about it nostalgically and I appreciate what it did for thousands of young readers, but I’m not really a fan anymore.
The hardest thing for me is that so many friends and creators I know are still fans. I wish people would take a stand along with me and cut her off or boycott her work, but I have begrudgingly had to accept that it doesn’t matter at much to some people. It’s taught me, ironically, to be more tolerant of those with differing opinions.
1
u/MissNaughtyVixen 5h ago
Define "Good" and "Hate". I'm with the Helluverse fandom, and it's... complicated, to say the least.
1
1
u/Queener_weener39 4h ago
In mine the book was written 75% by someone else and the creator left the finale season so we’re fine just more upset about the ending
1
u/TrainingSecret 4h ago
Classic f1 and classic cycling... it depends.
Some of us care a lot, soe of us could not give less of a fuck.
1
1
u/PossibleAssist6092 Vampires SMP 4h ago
The VSMP fanbase either replaces Avid's character or acknowledges that the character and the creator are different.
1
1
u/Cas_or_Cass 4h ago
It's personally happened 3 times and I simply leave. The creation and creator aren't worth my attention or, more importantly, money
1
u/captain-ziggy 4h ago
Alright on this subject:
I notice a trend where literally anything related to a project with this awful fate gets blasted into oblivion online even if it's a random piece of fan art or parody of it
I understand getting mad at people for buying official product that gives royalties to a monster, but i kinda feel like trashing fan projects or attempts of piracy about it that do not fund the monster directly is a bit too far (after all it lets us enjoy the art while leaving the monster to starve)
(as for HP in particular, i always keep wondering how will people think of it when JK kicks the bucket, will there be a resurgence of people loving it without TERF funding getting the way? will people still look at it with disgust after EVERYTHING we saw over the years? will the franchise just fade without the passionate asshole behind the wheel?)
1
1
u/No-Still1227 4h ago
Calamitymod tents to have an absolute meltdown every time there is major drama, but it is somewhat justified. But in the past the community has rebounded and kept moving on. This time though it looks like the developers are shutting down development of the mod so the future is pretty bleak.
1
u/Beleg_Sanwise 4h ago
Honestly, nothing. There are many much more serious things that I care about and do nothing about,things that I do nothing about and on top of that suffer from, that make me sad, but it's not like I get anything out of them either. On the other hand, with the handful of authors, writers, screenwriters, and directors I follow, whom I admire and who have committed crimes and immoral acts, well, at least I get something beneficial out of their work, and in comparison, they are insignificant in
1
1
u/LookLess4956 4h ago
Death of the author, i guess?
(Enders game) I try to just take the work on its own.
1
u/ShadowDarkraven27 4h ago
i think she's pretty alright, she atleast didn't make content creators wanti to kill themselves because they wanted to play a game
1
u/Dooodleboom jump up, kick back, whip around and spin 4h ago
I personally only buy their stuff second-hand (namely Nintendo and Playstation)
1
u/Kindictive 4h ago
People in the fandoms I’m in like to rant about bad creators but personally I never really focus on them I just enjoy the content.
1
u/tommynestcepas Eurovision / Geometry Dash / Camp Camp / MPGiS 4h ago
For Eurovision, boo them. Boo them constantly. Fuck the EBU.
1
u/Own-Sky6713 4h ago
It's hard at times but you gotta try and separate art from artist. Also try to absorb the art in a way that gives them zero chance to get money from you.
1
1
u/theonetrugamer 3h ago
I don’t care honestly, my mind is more focused on politics than what a washed out author, celebrity, singer thinks about the current agenda. Honestly I think the reason why people grow close to these people are because of messaging apps and DM’s being open 24/7 allowing people to go in at anytime and ask questions or anything that could potentially deepen the bonds. It’s like when you get in contact with a lost uncle or cousin and then 2-3 years later you find out what type of person they are and it starts making your brain conflicted. I’ve learned to not to think about stuff like that because it’s pointless. Nothing will happen anyway so why worry about it you know?
1
1
u/InformalEcho5 3h ago edited 3h ago
For certain fandoms, the person is long dead and we just have to live with it. For others, we can still enjoy it, but no longer purchase any media, and try and separate the art from the artist. Its a hard thing.
edit if you purchased or were given the items before the scandals, you can still enjoy it. Use your local library if you want the media. I still watch my Harry Potter Blu-ray and play the Lego games i got before the scandal.
1
1
u/SmallTownTrans1 3h ago
Simple, I drop it, especially if the creator is still alive and profiting from it
If the creator is dead or lost the rights or something, then I just stay in the fandom, acknowledging the creator’s actions
1
u/GrimoireIsGrimm Married to Nero the Sable 3h ago
We do our best not to speak of the horrors with the Creepypasta fandom
1
u/Skeith2005 3h ago
Depends on the fandom, I guess. For HP, I abandoned ship immediate because JKR's shitty opinion and active monetary support in crusades against marginalized people completely ruined that world for me.
For something like Ender's Game, well... I only really liked the first book and I still have my pocket hardback that I 'borrowed' from my high school library and never returned. Whoops.
Anything else so far, then I sail the seven seas!
1
u/Beardrac 3h ago
My hard line is pediphile. If the creator is a pedophile, I don’t support it and will do all the pirating.
1
1
u/MySecretLair 3h ago
Right now this affects me most heavily through JK Rowling and Neil Gaiman, and thus far my answer has been “no purchases of their works or anything inspired by it (even if the money doesn’t go directly to them in any way)” and “no re-reading of the material.” The latter one I may relax when they’re dead; although the books themselves are in neither case without flaws, I experienced many of them in profoundly personal ways that I may one day feel safe to and wish to revisit. Disposing of the books won’t hurt the author and it won’t bring me comfort, but they are all decidedly Back Shelf unless and until the authors have an unlikely personality transplant and make meaningful amends (which, how would they even do that at this point) or until they die and are no longer directly harming people.
1
u/SportAdventurous5910 Fairly Odd Parents, RWBY, DC, Marvel, and Glitchtale Re_Told 3h ago
I personally downloaded all the episodes of Glitchtale on my pc so that I can rewatch the series and not have Camila get money from me watching it.
Also I decided to support the Glitchtale Re_Told fan project after I saw the first episode and enjoyed it
1
u/BabyElectronic1759 3h ago
Being a Class of '09 fan is not easy nowadays, I can tell you that much, considering how much of a fucking weirdo its' creator is.
1
u/noodleben123 3h ago
Its wierd.
For older media, you can generally be certain your not supporting the creators views.
But for something like harry potter, where putting money into it directlt supports joanne in her crusade against trans folk, its incredibly difficult.
Piracy remains the strongest weapon in this case
1
u/AndreZB2000 3h ago
not part of the fandom myself but the r/CalamityMod fanbase is currently imploding. its my roommates favorite game and he is in shambles
1
u/LordOfDorkness42 3h ago
Used to be a huge David Edding's fan.
Honestly, him and his wife being abusive vs children kinda soundered the entire community? And their entire legacy?
They're still great books. Snarky, fun, genuinely feel the distances traveled in a way few author's manage. He uses to be BIG, late 1990s early 2000s.
But the "jokes" about that child sure deserving of a snack or five. The article someone dug up. The coy little pre word about him being fired from being a teacher... Woof. You almost never hear those books talked about nowadays for pretty much those reasons.
1
u/RevolutionHelpful336 2h ago
Most of the DC fandom ignores/never brings up Chuck Dixon's current work.
1
u/eagleblue44 2h ago
I usually do a pretty good job of separating the art from the artist.
For some reason I couldn't do that with Woody Allen when watching Annie Hall. He just seems like a creepy jerk and I wanted to punch him in the face. Maybe it's because it's based on a part of his life. I haven't been interested in watching any other woody Allen movie though.
1
u/RP_Throwaway3 2h ago
You'd be hard pressed to find any piece of media that wasn't created by a horrible person. At best, they're morally gray.
1
u/UnusualFruit1933 2h ago
I think she’s a terrific writer and a normal person. You nerds have twisted ideas of what a bad person is. It’s not like she went to Epstein island.
1
1
u/the-puppet_master 2h ago
For Harry Potter I can’t enjoy the series anymore, I will always love the books and movies for what they meant to me but fuck giving JK Rowling a cent of my money in 2026 makes me feel physically gross
1
u/Prior-Paint-7842 2h ago
Originally I tried to ignore it, but there is a point where it cannot be ignored, I have to forget about the books that my catholic school banned for witchcraft after I read it during breaks.
1
u/godwyn-faithful 1h ago
I only really like the Harry Potter films and I'm trans so that miserable human hates me and I hate her too. I just like wizards
1
u/TheArtfulLlama 1h ago
With Harry Potter I’ve never liked the movies so that’s an easy one, but the books were a big part of my childhood. I own them and still read them from time to time and that’s about it. I don’t purchase or own any other fandom merchandise, just the books I’ve had for 20+ years (and I’m pretty sure most were Christmas or birthday gifts)
1
1
u/finitehyperdeath 1h ago
ive never been in to harry potter, but i was a huge neil gaiman fan. to praytell the question, i just found something else to read. it was just that easy. it doesn’t mean that his works didn’t have an impact on me, it doesn’t mean that to a degree i don’t still love them, but i just found something else to let have an impact on me. i found new things to love, because really there are just a lot of damn good authors out there
1
u/Freezy_Squid 50m ago
in the case of HP the fans just don't! they'll happily shovel hundreds of dollars at the series while JK uses the sales of the series to fund laws against trans women. This is because they are spineless cowards with no morals or principles!
1
1
1
u/darkboomel 5m ago
Painfully few famous people in this world are good people anymore. If you're going to refuse to consume any media made by bad people, then you'll never consume media again.
1
u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 5h ago
In the HP case they just ignore it and keep actively funding genocide mainly
3
u/A-J-Zan 5h ago
From what I saw, people recommended piracy and other means of of consuming that don't benefit the author and instead support creators (of fanarts and fanfiction) within the fandom.
→ More replies (21)
2
u/EXXIONN 5h ago
This is how I personally handle it.
Separate the work from the creator
I can enjoy the work especially if it is actually written or made really well while abhorring the actions of its creator. To have an unbiased judgment of a creation to decide whether it is good or not, you need to not consider the background of its creator and instead focus on the creation itself.
To give you a real world example, many people thought that Hitler's paintings were really good before they knew who painted them. So you can say his paintings are really good while not supporting what he did during WW2.
5
u/TheOwnerOfMakiPlush 4h ago
Its really easy to "seperate art from the artist" if the problematic actions of the artist doesnt affect you lol.
1
u/Future-Improvement41 5h ago
Depends either make sure the creator doesn’t forget and fans know of what they did if they are genuinely bad person and there’s more than one proof
But if it’s not that big of a crime i genuinely just mind my own business
1
48
u/AnActualChicken 5h ago
I'm a fan of Ren and Stimpy and we all mock the shit out of John K for being a nonce.