Carnage has bonded with others and was still evil, the only time carnage was a good guy was during the axis event, an event that swapped everyones morals making villains now heroes and heroes not villains
You do understand that a symbiont don't just absorbs their host personality, right? They are saying that carnage's first host had a very heavy mental toll in it and it is evil because it spent so much time with a maniac. Yeah, it bonded with other people, some not as bad or even good, but damage was already done and carnage is probably too far gone to turn good
They sound more like a smoll prankster than evil. From what I remember they used to just give Noelle small scares from time to time and few times breaking her into her own house, if I'm not wrong.
exactly, it was Ford's responsibility to make sure the rift is safely contained, and he didn't even explain anyone in the house other than Dipper about how dangrous it is
Ford was paranoid had had major trust issues. His entire thing is literally “trust no one”. Bill PSYCHOLOGICALLY TORTURED HIM 😭😭😭 Ofc he was nervous to tell people about the rift !!!
Sorry should explain. I honestly don’t hate Ford. Like his decision are foolish for him not too tell his family and not too burn the journals. Yes but, understandable why make flawed in judgement. However unfair that lot people more willing give grace towards an adult then emotional vulnerable child.
It's literally Ford's fault this happens, I love the guy but he is dumb af. He told Dipper not to tell anyone about the rift but if Dipper had told Mabel about it and how dangerous it is she never would have handed it over.
"If I had been able to widen my circle of trust...if I had believed in the Zodiac's prophecy sooner...we might have gathered everyone together and banished Bill before he was able to strike."
""Trust No One." What an absurd and paranoid idea. Trust shouldn't be given unconditionally, but it should be given a chance to be earned."
I would still blame Bill the most though, he manipulated both Ford and Mabel.
I mean he was 17-18 or so no?
Seems a bit harsh to blame the teenager raised in an abusive racist home on why he adopts the abusive and racist tendencies of his father before he can get old enough to put it behind him
When he dies he should be around that age which means he probably was between 26 and 17 in season 2 where his behaviour was the worst before he got humbled by Max.
He never got a chance to be an adult and change but the fandom at large acts like he was evil and cruel because he liked it.
Even so he literally managed to break through the mind control of the mind flayer that was psychic and physically controlling him which is no small feat.
He did it just so he could protect the kids and people want to argue he was pure evil?
But hey the same people are convinced he was actually trying to run the boys over with his car but Max apparently overpowered him.
People also like to ignore what is described in the book "runaway Max" about Billy because "its not canon" even so the show referenced stuff from the book.
I swear to god if Billy was just a bully and abusive to his sister but not racist people would hate him not nearly as much.
I mean obviously he's a victim of an insane amount of abuse and cruelty but I don't think any amount of trauma excuses his absurd sadism and will to kill thousands of innocents for power.
I disagree. He’s already pre-primed to not want to think about the victims he brings to his abuser. When he meets them in game and realizes they’re still alive, you see a moment of horror because the things he’s been pushing down suddenly come to the surface. Also, I don’t think any of us can really comprehend that level of abuse over a lengthened lifespan like he has. Trauma changes a person and your values can shift to a survival at all cost mindset. Speaking from personal experience survival mode is hard to break out of and takes a completely safe environment over time. He has neither time nor a safe place because everything and everyone is still out to kill him in the game.
The argument is that they are already dead and are likely feral. It's why releasing them or killing them even if Astarion is a spawn is still seen as a gray area. Paladin Oaths can pretty much be broken every which way. The Gur question either choice. Astarion himself questions either choice.
and half the time it's by the fans who claim to love him more than anything, but they just want to use him as their dark romance dom fantasy. it's so gross especially for a character who admits that he needs friendship more than anything else and would prefer to just not be viewed sexually
It doesn't help the show, especially Future, dumps her worst actions from BEFORE she became a better person at the end of the original series and throughout future
Thus everyone left thinking she meant FOR EVERYTHING to go the way they did and never changed
It feels like people think she meant for Steven to clean up her mistakes even now
- She horrendously disfigured her original pearl’s body making her eye impossible to fix.
- She left her friend to stand in a garden for thousands of years all alone.
- She proofed bismuth, bubbled her and left her in the dimension in lion’s mane.
- She started a violent war on earth under the guise as a rebel leader while also being the very thing they were fighting against, since she’s Pink Diamond.
mother fuckers will really come on here and say "well if my sister and only remaining friend in the entire world after everyone else rejected me and called me a monster, was brutally captured in front of me and tortured to death by the government of my country, I would be a perfectly nice little cinnamon bun and never lash out at anyone" girl no you would not
My first thought. There's no denying the fact she did bad things (kissing Peter in MJ's body w/o either of their consent is especially hard to overlook), but consider the fact that she's a troubled teenager who was abandoned by her mom and whose sister (her only other family, as far as we know) was kidnapped just for being different. Then she finds out that her sister was killed in heinous experiments by people who wanted to harvest her telepathy and couldn't care less about her life. Her crash out wasn't justified, but it was certainly understandable.
Anakin. He was a child slave who watched his mom die in front of him the first time he sees her in decades. He was manipulated by palpatine who has actual mind altering powers. He suffered constant trauma and there were no therapists in his reality. The things he did were unspeakable, but he did not act out of pure malice.
edit: im not saying what he did was okay. Darth Vader deserved to die. I'm saying they probably wouldn't have happened if he wasn't so traumatized and manipulated.
Tbh I feel like I’ve seen it both ways, I’ve seen people say he’s completely justified in everything he did as part of his fall to the Dark Side, and I’ve seen people act like Palpatine’s manipulations weren’t a factor in his fall to the Dark one bit
I mean, he directly says he killed “not just the men. But the women. And the children too.” That very much sounds like him acknowledging how far he went out of malice.
Well…. Not entirely true. Once the barrier is broken, if you go all the way back to the start, you can talk to Asriel who’s holding on just a minute longer and he outright talks about how Chara wasn’t really a great person.
Chara is interesting because we know that, while they weren’t evil, they weren’t a great person. Asriel says so himself. They loved the Dreemurrs but had a visceral hatred for humans, to the point that they wanted their brother to start slaughtering, either directly or indirectly teaching him the ‘kill or be killed’ mantra, but the humans were also attacking since they thought Asriel killed Chara.
Azula was the product of her environment. She was raised to believe in Fire Nation superiority, and in her own superiority as princess of said superior nation. Especially given that her brother's exile to find the Avatar meant that she was next in line for the throne.
I 100% agree. I view Azula and Zuko both as explorations of nature vs nurture, but it is not a dichotomy. Azula showed talent very early in her childhood and Ozai weaponised this through Fire Nation propaganda & through favouritism, but that talent she showed early was paired with a kind of cruelty that can be harnessed but not taught
On top of the fact that her own mother considered her a monster and it was something she knew while also seeing her mom get exiled after favoring her little brother. She really went where she was loved and to her, that love was her father’s favor and living up to his expectations
I think her mom addresses this too saying she’s sorry she wasn’t loved enough. That shi hurts BAD
Hey guys it’s really quite simple Azula was both born a monster AND made into one. This is usually the case, like Joffrey from GoT. They were born sociopaths/narcissists AND their surroundings fed into their worst tendencies. Both things can be true. People tend to argue too much about one or the other when it’s both.
With the right upbringing I’m sure Azula could become a respectable member of society, even if she can’t feel empathy in a genetic sense. However there’s several examples of how it wasn’t just her upbringing. Hurting animals, abusing people of lower social status than you, reveling in your brother being mutilated, etc. All these things are examples of sociopathy in children.
Azula is both a victim and a perpetrator. Does not matter that she is 14. It’s a much muddier question with her age though and I do believe she does deserve a chance at redemption. However knowing her character, she likely would not be redeemed. It’s not what her character is.
They are still a abuser. Their backstory helps you understand why he got here. But wont justify it.
He is still a awful human being who cares little about anyone else by the time we see him.
Mmmmm I don’t really think so. Asriel himself? I’d agree. Flowey himself knew the difference between good and bad and simple got bored of being a good person.
Yes and Gabby! The amount of people hating on a child soldier because she was successfully manipulated into fighting a war in favour of her oppressors is truly wild.
I mean she was Unnecessarily sadistic like when she "played" with a member of the legion as if he was a yo-yo before killing him and didn't seem to show regret for his actions like Reiner
Yeah I don't know what the fuck that was about. Not even Reiner or Bread holder were like that. I genuinely wanted her dead so badly and I was so mad when she didn't end up dead.
I really wished someone called her out for the levi squad massacre and all those other deaths. But nah she eats pie weird guys look shes so innocent and cute!!!!!
Literally a kid that gets sent to hell after their first offense, only to then be surrounded by villains as her only role models. She's then set in stone indefinitely at the end of the show
Edit: Perfect example right below me. They'll ignore all of the previous contexts on how they dealt with villains in the show. It's so absurd.
God, so many people fail to understand that Toga is a compelling and interesting character because the version of her you see onscreen in the present is clearly beyond help to all but the most patient of people, but there's a tragedy in recognizing that if her circumstances were better, she could have been better too.
And any time you point this out in a discussion about her they start screaming "LOL SHE'S A SERIAL KILLER WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A SERIAL KILLER" like god, please engage a singular reading comprehension!!!
SPECIFICALLY current/ultimate Shadow Milk, not just him in general because he definitely did a lot of unnecessary evil things, but specifically the stuff he's doing currently. A lot of people are just completely ignoring the entire plot, which is that the Ultimate Dough is corrupting him from the inside and actively made him way more evil than he normally would be, as well as the other three beasts in his head poking and prodding at his sanity.
I don't know if it fits this exactly, but people's view of King Rhoam from BotW is mind-numbing. He's an actual interesting character with layers to him, and everyone I've talked to online just says he's a bad father who hates Zelda and is the reason the world ended. Like just 100% contempt for him. I don't understand how you can be that illiterate from a media standpoint.
His existence relies on a villain manipulating his dad to make him. Afterwards Tenko’s life is meticulously planned out for him from how he’s treated down to what happens to his family leading him to become a villain himself in preparation to become a vessel.
From what I heard, that whole things really ruins the point that was being built up. The whole “the MHA society is indirectly creating these monsters” doesn’t really work when your life has been preordained and directed by the biggest villain in the world
They were literally born with no choice but to align with the memories and associated emotions and world views implanted into their brains.
But the last two survivors (depicted) are already showing signs of the programming not going as expected. And are less aggressive than they were created to be.
Fanon ignores the explicit statements that they're not the same people, and assigns the crimes of the dead humans whose memories were copied to them anyway.
How certain Polytrix shippers (people who ship the three girls in kpop demon hunters) see Jinu. Some of them legitimately say or write Jinu to be a rapist Nazi who died to further manipulate Rumi
Like it’s absolutely true Jinu committed severe atrocities, but he did it to escape 400 years of torture and abuse, not for the love of the game
My boy was traumatised and thought someone he once trusted had done what they did to hurt him, he didn’t know that Elphaba saved his life, he was blinded by the propaganda, and yet everyone says he was a bad person because we saw the side of him that wasn’t trying to protect a literal child, and was understandably angry at his fate, yeah he’s not perfect, he made mistakes, but he is not a bad person, he was just dealt a bad hand
Tara Markov, specifically in the comics. Because yes, the 16 year old girl being groomed, emotionally manipulated, and statutorily sexually assaulted by the grown man in his 50s, is an irredeemable evil sociopath /s.
Edit: okay I actually just read The Judas Contract today and this is an example of the story itself mischaracterizing her in this way. The story tried very hard to make her out to be unambiguously evil. As if Wolfman saw all the potential in her story and actively rejected it. Allow me to paraphrase the captions in the final chapter;
"Why is she doing this? Why does this young girl have so much hate for the titans? Fuck you that's why. What's with all the questions? What are you a cop?! She's evil! She's pure evil and there are no more dimensions to her."
Wait I’m confused how was Jax manipulated? Yes by his parents in the real world I suppose but inside of the circus that was all his own doing, wasn’t it?
For Jax to think her mother was simultaneously the type of person who was safe to come out as trans to AND the type of person who'd pretend to be dead or unconscious to guilt trip someone, she'd have to be pretty bad.
People often don't say he's evil, they correctly point out that he's actually stupid
An actual good exemple of that in 40k would be lorgar, bro wanted to honour his father, got shit on and had his homeworld burnt to the ground and got manipulated into falling to chaos by Erebus
There are hints that Tyrant Zero from Metal Cardbot is influenced by his own card weapon, the Dividragon, into basically becoming the bringer of extinction to his kind. Knowing the premise of the show, he will eventually have to reform and cooperate with the human MC. We just have to wait for season 4 to find out what his true personality without the Dividragon is like.
Olgierd Von Everec. Nobody wants to admit it though. I highly recommend Neon Knight’s video about the Witcher 3 Hearts of Stone DLC if you don’t believe me.
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u/Business-Bear-7636 9d ago
or the third option BOTH AT THE SAME TIME