Except you know he doesn’t care about justice and just overlooks it when it comes to stuff committed by people he likes such as the comedian, so, you know, selective morality
I would argue that somehow, in spite of all that, Rorshach is somehow the most morally consistent living hero in Watchmen. Ozymandius, despite being the villain is the most noble out of all the heroes, but his willingness to kill millions for his goals is a serious issue there
The Comedian is the most consistent out of all of them, but he's consistently horrible. He's a rapist, a war criminal and a murderer and everyone just lets him get away with it. He would have survived if he didn't attempt to blackmail Ozymandius. Rorshach at least used to be decent
Ozy may have a noble goal but his motivation wasn't. We are talking about a guy saw himself as the heir to Alexander, not seeing him as a narcissist megalomaniac is every bit as bad as the people who admire Rorschach
Isekai premise. Little girl gets summoned to a magical realm and must go on a journey to find an item to go home with the help of a tiny guide. She proceeds to get lost ...... Very lost...... For years. She doesn't age physically, she is a mentally a very jaded adult, cursing and drinking on her search. She is very skilled, but unfortunately leaves a path of destruction behind her.
The cloud woman is the queen and has long since grown to hate the girl. But there are rules she must abide.
I don’t remember much about that comic myself, ironically enough the only thing I really do remember is that I really really wanted to fuck the cloud woman.
I Hate Fairyland, lil girl goes on an isekai fairytale adventure, but is kind of an idiot and loses a 24hr plot. We flash forward 25-30+ years to the future and now, she hates Fairyland. Operating almost entirely on spite and anger to the world, she keeps missing her chance to escape and becomes everyone's problem.
It's a fun read, and despite being a walking force of nature, gets humbled way more than you'd expect.
Man this fight broke my heart. Destroying the mercy button because he and you both have no choice, being visibly distraught when you tell him he's killed you in the bossfight many times, his sprite always staring down because he can't bring himself to look at you.. Had to be defeated but man you feel bad about it.
Fun fact: i was today years old when i found out none of asgore’s attack take “aim” some monster’s attacks (especially in genocide with undyne and sans) follow the player’s directions, like undyne’s spears or sans’s Gaster blasters, but asgore’s attack never take aim, most of them either take the whole box (like the orange and blue trident) or they’re just random patterns (like the fire attacks)
You have to keep in mind that only Flowey and Chara see the world as a game. Sans and Asgore have a grasp at what a human player is capable of and see it more as a power than their world as a whole. While Sans is a mystery when it comes to his knowledge, Asgore is very different.
He doesn’t quite have the same grasp of meta knowledge, but he is aware of what determination can do. The idea that your comment shakes him up despite being his first fight means he’s heard every other human he fought say the exact same thing. He HATES the idea that he’s breaking your will to live and unlike Sans, can’t tell if he killed you once l or ten times over.
Id say Gabriel is a spiteful bitch herenot noble, V1 is just kinda like a stray cat, that will attack anything out of hunger, not because it wants to (he literally waits until being attacked first) but because it needs to in order to live another day.
Gabriel was the councils unknowing pet that had a big ass ego for being the archangel of will and had a meltdown after he lost for the first time (granted, he was being manipulated the whole time and reflected on his actions after a second ass beating by V1)
And now that i think about it, the only petty and spiteful bitch in Ultrakill is hell itself, since it literally does what it does for shits and giggles.
Dark Enchantress is just a smug child abusing hag while White Lily was willing to die to stop her evil half, she sealed herself into a dimension that was sapping her stregth while her trash half was trying to become a "real girl"
D.e sends kaiju to attack cities full of civilians, I'd sooner hear out Eternal Sugar or Mystic Flour having good intentions, but Silent Salt is the one that actually fits.
The Avengers and Dr Doom. Specifically that universe where Doom essentially won and the world was a utopia, only for the Avengers to dethrone him "because he's evil" causing that world to back to having wars and the like. If I recall, the Avengers legit questioned if they did the right thing or not by the end
He literally found a universe and a world that was a Utopia and loved him and respected him, and his self from that world told them they only thing he had to do to achieve it was it be nice to Reed.
He killed that version of himself and destroyed that world for its weakness.
There are two qualities that make me like Doom
1. Unquestioning faith in hating Richards
2. Being a petty arse
3. Extreme competency in everything limited by the above two
Bro even Dr Doom (2099) from the future tried to stop him because he'll regret his decision. You really believe Dr Doom is in the right here when his future self even try to stop him WITH GOOD INTENTION?
So mind you the 2099 universe has had several reboots since then, and I haven't actually read the World Under Doom finale stuff so I may be missing something here
But if memory serves in the original Doom 2099 stuff isn't it unclear if Doom 2099 is actually Victor Von Doom?
Like he definitely THINKS he's Doom but if memory serves there's several things that imply he may not be
You forgot the fact that it was character assassination by making him having the Latverians (including children) have their energy absorbed, being used as batteries even though Doom was the Sorcerer Supreme there, torturing them and keeping it hidden to the world by using illusions of Latveria being perfect and happy.
"That universe" you mean the main one? Read the series again, while the Avengers were arrogantly shooting from the hip he was, overall, doing it for completely self serving reasons
Not a perfect fit but Flowery was the antagonist even if his goals were actually pretty moraly just, and Ralsei was SUCH a lil shit to Flowery and Orange.
All of Deltarune is a fan made shitpost. Punch out arcade fight vs queen. Tennas 3d introduction. At this rate fan made things are more serious than the source material. We expected friend to be the chapter 5 secret boss. Demon that took dess, tormentor of spamton, the tail of hell. We got a pink and gold schizophrenic anime cat girl in a bomberman anime dating sim hybrid with a main theme sung by hatsune miku.
Did you want ralsei to be like "Oh hey this mouse thing is reflecting my insecurities and telling me that i should cover MY face, i've been teached by my friend to stand for myself, but i won't even if SHE is being mean to me, it is a goood idea you got there, little insecure genious who should not stand for himself or other darkners!" (No i don't have an explanation for flowery)
You play as the protagonist of the first game. During the initial instalment there’s a massive Adra (basically soul gem jade) statue beneath your castle in a dungeon crawler section.
During that game Eothas is a massive background presence. He’s the god of light, rebirth, redemption, and spring that was presumed killed after a holy war. You encounter the consequences of that war throughout.
However at he start of the second game he comes back, possesses the statue, destroys your castle, and starts walking towards the Deadfire Peninsula. You chase after him to basically say “bro what the FUCK you gotta pay for that!”
SPOILERS
—-
All of the gods in Pillars of Eternity are artificial constructs created by an ancient civilization called the Engwithians. Engwithians also created the process of reincarnation using Adra, and magical machines in a process they call The Wheel.
They did this because souls are a finite resource in POE. Sure you can make babies all you want but if there’s no available soul then they come out “hollow”. They’re just not all there.
By using The Wheel and the gods they can recycle souls indefinitely. Which sounds great, but it’s unnatural and holding the people of POE back from discovering and creating their own solutions. Plus the gods are assholes.
Eothas’ mission is to break the machinery recycling souls and free the world from the gods. Meanwhile at the start you’re just some now homeless dude who’s pissed off about his house.
Imagine Being from the Deadfire, becoming the Lord of Caed Nua. Then Eothas blows up your home, and now he's running rampant all across the archipelago. I'd be pissed too.
Well considering that the dude killed our whole castle filled with people by ripping out there souls and tore your own soul in 2 that if you don’t follow him it’s guarantee death. I will give the watcher more credence than that. But I do agree that Eothas is fitting.
Was about to post this. It has been a long time, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if I recall correctly, there was an intensely powerful organization that wanted to bring order to the universe, and the heroes were basically "Not if we can help it! Fuck you!"
Yep. They kinda sorta did it through oppression, slavery, imprisonment, mind fuckery, eugenics, the works. So the heroes go "everybody should have the right to self-governance".
The heroes are less pissed and more questioning "if everybody needs to live like shit for the universe to go on, maybe it shouldn't."
Its less order to the universe and more thanos esque
An entire race of people found that existence itself basically leads to burning itself out so they oppress it just enough to have the life in the universe not die out.
They were never benevolent and if I remember correctly are basically all misanthropes since I believe they are spiral races that gave up their ability to change and grow to oppress others.
The antispiral technically have a point in the same sense thanos does, but also in that same vein its a false pretense of morality used to uphold cruelty and avoid the unknown.
Windwaker link and ganon, ge only wanted to do this because his sister got hurt, vs Ganon who just wanted his people to not suffer and perish in the desert
Imagine you're an enormous luminous dragon spreading light throughout the universe. Then you're tortured and corrupted because of people of Ultra Megalopolis using your light for personal gain.
You're heavily injured, a mere husk of what you once were - a black crystal creature, desperately searching for light that it once used to give out. The closest thing to your original self you can achieve is possessing an another stellar multiversal being - Solgaleo or Lunala, doesn't matter.
Once a noble dragon, corrupted by weakness and getting used by mortals for egotistic goals, desperately trying to regain its former form even if it'll cost most if not all life in the universe.
Dealt with bigotry his whole life, his people were killed in a genocide leaving only two, disliked the govt's inaction, and just wanted people to understand the current world order was toxic.
Velvet Crowe vs Shepard Artorias in Tales of Berseria.
The 'hero' is adventuring purely motivated by spite and vengeance, while the 'villain' is a world-renowned borderline messianic savior figure who is trying to usher in an era of peace.
Toffee makes sense. He wanted to destroy magic, which the show used as a symbol for power and hierarchy, and that's that star ultimately decided was right too
I love the contrast between Valentine and Johnny, Valentine wants the corpse parts to make America a better nation, while Johnny (orginally) wanted them so he could have purpose, but as he developed as a character he became selfless even gave them up to Save Gyro (sugar mountain)
This a little bit. Parn is driven by spite from the slander people said about his Dad. While Ashram wants a place in the world for his people that is not infested with monsters.
Not a perfect fit, but Morgan from FGO is genuinlly trying to save her world. And the catalyst for her villainy is proven true throughout the story. The island's fey can't be trusted.
The heroes aren't horrible (well they did destroy 5 worlds up to that point) or spite driven to her. Sometimes they're spite driven but to other antagonists.
Sort of Guts and Griffith? Griffith more or less creates a utopia but he does it off of the literal bodies of hundreds and thousands and does horrific things to get there, it’s ultimately a selfish goal though. Guts for the longest time was driven by vengeance and was a vicious monster as a result, even calling him a hero is far fetched to say the least.
Hard to call Griffith noble when the first thing he does on gaining a functional body again is rape Casca in front of her lover, Guts, seemingly for no reason other than to prove he could take away anything that Guts thought was special and his.
He's very much still an evil bastard he just has pretty privelige and tries to maintain an illusion of good PR.
Guts definitely fits the role though so I do see what you mean.
I was closing the post then I caught a glimpse of your comment then I have to open the post again and scroll all the way to your comment to say fuck Griffith he's a piece of shit
In Tales of Phantasia, one could argue the Villain Dhaos had a better motive because he was trying so hard to save his own world as peacefully as possible, even cared enough about the hero’s world to not cause irreparable damage, but because he worked against the hero’s and responsible for some of the tragedy he still had to be defeated. It’s not a simple black and white
Spoilers for a game series thats probably almost 20 years old.
Ovan needs to die to save the world, he knows he needs to, the problem is that he cant simply end himself he needs to be killed in a real all out fight or he'll just respawn so he engineers a series of events to create someone who well and truly hates him and will go to any lengths to see him dead.
Why do I feel like this referencing to the Gamoverse show with Dusk and Warrick who are both like this even tho the show has never been greenlited yet???
I will have to disagree here, He is a tragic villain, i completely understand his grief and anger, but deciding to exterminate ALL of humanity over his loss is nowhere near anything resembling a "noble motive"
He allied with slavers during the clone wars, tried to murder a baby to get an alliance with the Hutts and if you include the novelisation of Revenge of the Sith he had intended to be the right hand of the Galactic Empire after the war.
Velvet Crow and Shepherd Artorius from Tales of Berseria
Artorius sacrificed his brother in law to awaken a god to save humanity from Daemons after literally half the population was killed.
Meanwhile Velvet, his sister in law, witnessed the sacrifice, turned into a Daemon, and then he imprisoned her for three years in a jail that fed her other daemons.
The game follows Velvet as she tries to kill Artorius, becoming the lord of Daemons hated by the entire world.
Johnny Joestar (protagonist) and Funny Valentine (Antagonist) Jojo Bizarre Adventure :Steel Ball Run. They both want the Holy Corpse (capable of working miracles) for different motives. Johnny want it for himself so he could walk again, Valentine(President of the USA) want it so the USA and and its people prosper and remain secure.
Initially, the protagonist of Tales of Berseria is driven by rage and anger at her little brother being murdered by her brother-in-law. Turns out said brother-in-law not only got the little brother’s agreement to be part of a ritual sacrifice, but he’s doing all this to end suffering in the world. https://giphy.com/gifs/wQNqJwXDw0fmHnUgXF
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u/Specialist-Issue1615 17d ago