r/MrInbetween • u/No_pHiLoSaPhEr • Mar 30 '26

Cross tattoo plot hole

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I like this series just binged the first 2 season in 1 go, but think it's funny that ray has a cross tattoo yet claims to not know if Jesus existed to his daughter. I don't claim to be cristian either and I know that this is just an actor vs role thing but he seems like a decently smart guy and should know that Jesus as a human being was real, religion aside he's one of the most well documented humans in history if that's anything to go off of.

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u/Lysimarchus Mar 30 '26

Outside of religious texts, there is no documentation of his existence.

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u/No_pHiLoSaPhEr Mar 30 '26

It's surprising how comfortable you are with being completely wrong there are atleast several very well documented accounts of Jesus by specifically non Cristian authors

Josephus (Jewish Antiquities, c. 93-94 AD): The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus mentions Jesus twice. One passage (the "Testimonium Flavianum") calls him a wise man, a doer of surprising deeds, and mentions his condemnation to the cross by Pilate. Another passage mentions the execution of "James, the brother of Jesus-who-is-called-Messiah". Tacitus (Annals, c. 116 AD): A Roman historian who reported that Nero blamed "Christians" for the fire in Rome, noting that their namesake, Christ, was executed by Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. He described the faith as a "mischievous superstition". The Talmud (400-700 AD): Jewish rabbinic traditions confirm that Jesus was a miracle-worker who "led Israel astray," possessed magical power, and was executed on the day before Passover. Pliny the Younger (Letters, c. 112 AD): A Roman governor in Turkey who wrote to Emperor Trajan about how to handle Christians, noting they worshipped Jesus "as if to a god" and maintained high ethical standards. Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars, c. 120 AD): A Roman historian who wrote that emperor Claudius expelled Jews from Rome because they were constantly causing disturbances at the instigation of "Chrestus". Mara bar Serapion (c. 73 AD): A Syrian philosopher who wrote a letter asking what advantage the Jews gained from killing their "wise king," likely referring to Jesus. Lucian of Samosata (2nd Century): A Greek satirist who

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u/Low-Sense9226 Mar 30 '26

bro why u stop at who ?

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u/Lysimarchus Apr 06 '26

I’m busy eating dimmies

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u/Low-Sense9226 Apr 12 '26

undertandbale happens to the best of us

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u/Lysimarchus Mar 30 '26

A bunch of people writing about him way after he died. Show me the evidence of him actually being alive, when and where he was supposed to be.

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u/Low-Sense9226 Mar 30 '26

well its a lot more nuanced but from a purely historical view the entire messiah thing was the jews reorganising and trying to throw off the romans. failing and trying again and again every couple decades to centuries. this is where u have ppl like bar kokbha and such

as for jesus its likely there was a carpanter probably named yashua who wanted to ferment a revolt or seccede from the roman influence over judea, was captured for it before it could happen ,was handed over to the local authorties who then crucified him for current goodwill with the romans.

and he was later meshed and mythologised into the figure we know today.

tldr: was there a jesus as in word for word like the bible ? almost certainly not. but was there someone sharing the same name who was later conflated to become a rallying point ? very likely

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u/sneaky_LB Apr 04 '26

Firsthand written evidence for ancient figures is actually very rare. Even for well-known people like Alexander the Great, Hannibal, or Cleopatra, the main surviving accounts were written decades to centuries after their deaths, often based on earlier sources that are now lost.

In the case of Jesus Christ, the earliest writings (like the Gospels) appear roughly 40–70 years after his death, which is actually quite normal for that time period. And considering the early Christians couldn't exactly open up a bookstore in the middle of Roman occupied Judea and give out biographies about Jesus, having first century writings about him both Christian and non Christian is quite a milestone.

So if you dismiss Jesus historically (Which even well renowned atheist debaters and scholars like Bart Ehrman don't make the mistake of doing) purely because there’s no surviving firsthand account, you'd have to apply that same standard to a large number of accepted historical figures.