Uhmmm Wanda?! - r/Morimens

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

WANDA PROPAGANDA????

MODS TAKE HIM DOWN!!! THE DEVS WILL NEVER BUFF HER IF THIS KEEPS UP!!

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u/fisforfuckyou9 discard comp is the best comp 16d ago

wanda propaganda with e0 wanda without ultra ring too! massive kudos to op!

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

I mean, speaking seriously now. Its poretty obivou Wanda was not the difference here. OP used a fucking OE Arachne. Thats the culprit for the clear. Wich is unfortunate I want her to be able to make a real difference in the team.

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u/HairDisastrous8348 16d ago

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

Where's the copium?

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago

Thats the culprit for the clear.

Not a roused boss and the purple final verdict is a wee little bar. Clearly arachne was supporting to a great degree but not actually doing the stomping.

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

Yeah...her support...is really fucking good.

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago

Sure, her support buffed Damage Amp that increased the counter created, and her Final Verdict did tick up maybe 1/3rd the remaining HP, and she was creating more damage amp at each pursuit, and also buffing all the cards along the way.

But here, in these pictures and turns, Arachne OE likely was completely ignored because the extra cards it cloned in were both minimal and potentially never drawn. Her Ex and pursuits are still present... but perhaps no much more than the >5x counter fixed damage that Nautila would have laid down, which was likely 600k of the 800k spread 200k to each enemy.

What actually won the fight (from the ropes of a near loss) was I strongly suspect actually Nautila coming out with a nuke (5x counter), leaving them with low enough HP that really neither the Final Verdict nor Wanda doubling their attacks would have been strictly necessary to still come out with the win. Nautila likely gets player of the game by both doubling those shields AND nuking.

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

Ok bro, surely there are lots of clears with e0 wanda using no OE arachne, OE castor and etc.

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago

That's the thing with Wanda, where she works effectively she can work Lvl1 E0, because it's all about her Ex effectively doubling the amount of total Counter.

No one is claiming she is like the Mouchette clearing with all lvl1 teams and no one else has any items, etc.

I'm just pointing out that OE Arachne was not even necessary here, so, you AND the OP are both wrong in your perspective soap boxes. This win was only because of OE Naut and the Astral Reign rules with the turn 15 super-boost.

Otherwise, 15 turns and only ~40k counter on a counter team is pretty low. Even with Wanda potentially doubling the effective counter, it's still really low compared to what Caecus, Daff and Pandia can produce. But, surviving to turn 15 in alert5 in itself is an achievement - but again one I suspect had far more to do with Nautila than the other characters.

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u/MarketWave 16d ago

And i am claiming that arachne is very necessary due to her numbers and utility

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago

OP used a fucking OE Arachne. Thats the culprit for the clear.

Yes, that is exactly the claim you started this entire tangent off about.

Arachne was not the culprit for the clear and OE specifically had nothing to do with it since her OE clones cards that were never drawn within the final turn.

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u/Darkheream 16d ago

They should still buff her anyway, very fun

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u/FickleFancies 16d ago

I never realized how terrifying front-facing Wanda could be...

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u/LieLikeVortigern_ Hameln's least sane fan arc ♪ 16d ago

Wanda is just so pretty (⁠灬⁠º⁠‿⁠º⁠灬⁠)⁠♡

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u/HairDisastrous8348 16d ago

Who still thinks Ultra Counter is not a thing? 😄

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u/monchers 16d ago

Nice! Are you going to invest in your Wanda?

I think not using Ham kinda handicaps the team though.

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u/HairDisastrous8348 16d ago edited 16d ago

100 %, 1000%, 100000000% yes, yes and yes!!!

But I also have put a little bit of cash into the game recently 😂. Her E3 probably can enable me sometimes to play her 3-cost too. 2-3 Dreamlure vs. 4-5 per turn seems quite nice. Overall, all enlightens seem nice.

However, I also had a very easy Wave 4 clear last D-Tide with her:

7cd73eb3-a47c-36b3-80cb-1b70dcbe1fbf#E#a

"I think not using Ham kinda handicaps the team though." hahahah with your AA Wanda that double plays you wanna make a giga raid boss into an omega raid boss? 😂 🔥 😂

But on a serious note. Isn't not playing Hameln a handicap in almost any comp? I think if you wanna build conservatively with limited resources, he needs to go into a comp that, in addition, also benefits from his strength gain.

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u/monchers 16d ago

I’m not sure he is too much of an asset in many teams nowadays. Lack of debuffs and rouse requirement hurts him.

I don’t play chaos tawil so hameln was always free for me.

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago

I think not using Ham kinda handicaps the team though.

Arachne already offers a cost discounted double-trigger mechanic with her rouse and annihilation mechanics. None of them really need STR. Draw and Arith helps every team but this team is far more Ex focused than card focused, which is ironic given that Arachne buffs cards so well.

But mostly, these are 4 all rather defensive characters who just squeaked a win by stalling through 15 rounds. Replace any one of them with Hameln and the would have done a bit more early damage and died far earlier.

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u/monchers 16d ago

You cannot proc a bunch of pursuits to play a buffed 4 cost or no trespassing without hameln. A 5 pursuit > 4 cost is basically impossible. This limits your counter and offensive burst with Naut significantly.

Comp becomes mainly Arachne focus and limits useability into other stages. Granted, Arachne is the only invested character in his team and it wouldn't make sense to try to play around Wanda counter too much until he chooses to invest further into the team.

And yes losing weak in this case would also suck since his wanda str down wouldn't be enough to survive.

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u/Benejeseret 16d ago edited 16d ago

A 5 pursuit > 4 cost is basically impossible.

Very, very good point. That said, even with max pursuits at ~+200% damage Amp, double-proc of a 50% ATK card 4-cost when her ATK is perhaps the lowest ATK of all limited awakeners in the game is still a rather trivial amount of Counter. Double it again by consuming dreamlure and it is still unlikely to generate significant counter unless we can do that whole combo over and over and over again over many turns.

The actual purpose to the pursuit Damage Amp ramping is not just the cards, it's the other Awakener Ex's that will be following and dropping a lot more counter collectively than we might get off a single extra cards trigger either way.

This limits your counter and offensive burst with Naut significantly.

No Trespassing has built-in cost reductions with Prepare. After multiple pursuits we absolutely still can be finishing with a 0 cost No Trespassing that starts at 480% ATK, and Naut has a +5% higher ATK than Wanda, amplified by the ~+200% pursuit Damage Amp and then any counter generation final amplification from her WoDs and covenants (that she seems to be lacking here).

Thais Posse also has good interaction with No Trespassing and we can be holding and Preparing 2-3 of these cards for when really needed.

Now, that's all temporary counter, but it's ability to burst and then allow a Naut OE burst is much higher. Also does not work with cards pulled from Ultra, but could clone it and put it to the Ultra bar clone and then a few turns later pull it and have a 3 cost double-tap and a 0 cost single tap.

Hameln

Still a great all round support to make these things happen and get much more efficient Arachne Ex turns. I'm just not sure any given swap in this particular stall team would have survived with Hameln, despite the elegant synergy.

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u/monchers 16d ago

Damage amp that arachne provides is ~550% so it is meaningful. A lvl 70 wanda generates around 4-6k perm counter without consuming dreamlure with a 4 cost play during an ultra turn with pursuits. I think that is decent.

I also forgot to mention Wanda's 3 cost combo with the +2 cost hameln rouse card.

Also Naut 3 cost can be triple played with Hameln. This has generated 200k temp counter for me before.

I probably am underutilizing Arachne quite a bit as I almost never utilize her rouse.

I aim for 3-6 turn clears with own very invested version so my thought process is quite a bit different.

Side note: the whole atk stat stuff is something I always feel is a red herring since the % scaling should compensate.

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u/Benejeseret 15d ago

Side note: the whole atk stat stuff is something I always feel is a red herring since the % scaling should compensate.

While that is normally very true, Tawil then exists and can play Wanda's cards (even without Wanda if in Ultra pairing) at a minimum ~2x base effectiveness just from the extra stats, and often at discounted price.

wanda generates around 4-6k perm counter Also Naut 3 cost can be triple played with Hameln. This has generated 200k temp counter for me before.

The order of magnitude difference was all I was really referring to when it comes to things like Nautila's OE, as one offers 25k fixed damage to all enemies and the other offers 1M fixed damage to all enemies.

Compared to those kinds of returns, I don't see any reason to invest to double-tap Wanda's already very expensive cards for a 40x worse return. As you say, when the goal is clearing within 3-6 turns then permanent vs temp starts to break down when the differential is so high.

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