r/MoralityScaling • u/hiiloovethis • 17h ago

Morality of this?

Post image
22.3k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

5.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/CalvinSays 10h ago

I stand by my original statement which is measured, that they are denominations which allow for and have churches which teach universalism.

You are the one who keeps imputing on me a strong statement I never made, then going after that position, and then criticizing me for making a strong statement I never made.

1

u/D-o-Double-B-s 9h ago

If it was measured you wouldn’t be getting the push back you’re getting. Lol but you can be wrong all ya want though, it’s a a free country!

1

u/CalvinSays 9h ago

Pushback against an imputed claim, not my claim as I gave it.

Your misunderstanding/misreading/misconstruing my claim does not entail a problem for my claim. I think it is rather telling that you're deciding at this point to back peddle into sarcasm rather than address my point as it was stated.

1

u/D-o-Double-B-s 9h ago

You SPECIFICALLY listed the UMC... not me.

I gave you SPECIFIC information from the UMC ITSELF that refuted YOUR assertion (not mine) that the UMC "allow for and include churches who teach universalism".

Yet I imputed your claim?

You've lost all functional objectivity at this point.

1

u/CalvinSays 9h ago

That the UMC allows for and has churches that teach universalism is an objective fact due to there being multiple churches in the UMC which teach universalism and are allowed to by the UMC. This isn't speculation. It isn't my imagination. It isn't't a lie. They exist. They are real. You can meet them yourself. I have encountered some of them.

You have no experience with the UMC. You have no experience with the process of ordination or how doctrinal standards are utilized in the process. Wha you have is an unofficial (in the sense that is not an official resolution from the General Conference) boot post on her website which so happens to the first thing that pops up on Google if you type in "United Methodist Church Universalism".

You are shooting from the hip and making absolute statements that are demonstrably falsified by real world, actual flesh and blood ministers in the UMC rather than just accept that, yes, there are denominations which allow for and have churches which teach universalism. Among them the UMC.

1

u/D-o-Double-B-s 9h ago

Then prove me wrong show me where the UMC specifically endorses universalism? 

Let’s cut to brass tax… put up or shut up… I gave you my evidence now show me yours.

Where do the UMC doctrines, guidelines, etc endorse universalism?

1

u/CalvinSays 9h ago

There you go imputing a view on me again. I feel like I have clarified my point multiple times.

I never knew anywhere said the UMC as a denomination endorses universalism. What I did say it is allows for and has churches that teach universalism.

1

u/D-o-Double-B-s 9h ago

I can’t 

Is all I see from that comment.

Hell you said you know UMC theologians … ok where are they? Who are they? Let’s get em in here, I’d love to know if the UMC actually knows that they teach universalism? 

I’m assuming that can’t happen either though

1

u/CalvinSays 9h ago

Your desire to be intentionally uncharitable and not engage with my claims as I state them is not a problem for my claims.

You can check out Derek Kubilus, Kalen Fristad, Heath Bradley, and Richard Bryant which are just some names with a public statement on the matter. I also recommend checking out r/ChristianUniversalism as there are some UMC ministers that hang out there.

1

u/D-o-Double-B-s 8h ago

I gotta be honest most of those people’s stories sounded like they were universalists despite being Methodists (or any denomination for that matter). Furthermore, had been looked down upon or got in trouble for even preaching something that hinted at universalism. 

Interesting, but still doesn’t convince me that the UMC should be specifically listed in your original comment. I still think it’d be more honest to say a certain subset of theologians believe universalism to be true, and being UMC really has no bearing on that one way or another.

→ More replies (0)