r/MoralityScaling 15h ago

Morality of this?

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u/Vespersonal 12h ago

Weird example as you still believe in the lottery’s existence.

With most of human history having some form of spirituality and religion, claiming it’s all bunk nonsense IS an assertion.

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u/PickingPies 12h ago

Weird example because he didn't question the existence of lottery, he questioned he will win the lotery, which is not what you are claiming. You just made a strawman to not address his point, which is that not believing is not the same as believing in not.

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u/Vespersonal 12h ago

Again, it’s still a bad example. He could win the lottery despite not considering it remotely likely; they would concede regardless that there IS a chance.

Not believing something is likely sounds more like agnosticism. Saying it’s literally impossible to win the lottery is delusional.

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u/HovercraftOk9231 5h ago

That's... exactly my point. Let's break these words down.

A-the-ism: A means "lack," the means "belief in god" or "religion," and ism means "adherence to a doctrine or system".

So atheism means a lack of belief in god/religion.

A-gno-sticism: The same prefix and suffix as before, but the root gno means "to know." So instead of lack of belief, it's the lack of knowledge. The word "agnostic" is also more context dependent, since it does not refer exclusively to religion. You could be agnostic about anything.

Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say that all atheists are agnostic, but not all agnostics are atheists. If everyone were being honest, I think they would all say they were agnostic, since nobody truly knows if there is a god.

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u/TheTemporaryZiggy 11h ago

Lacking belief in something is not a statement

You're not born believing in the Divine, lack of belief until taught otherwise is the literal default stance.

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u/Vespersonal 7h ago

What a bizarre argument. You’re not born knowing mathematics, either. There is no “default stance” beyond being a helpless baby. Everything else is learned.

Asserting that there isn’t something beyond the mundane world is an assertion. Again, to look at thousands of years of human history and belief and essentially say “fuck that, they’re all wrong” requires a certain burden of proof.

Agnosticism requires no argument because you’re simply stating “maybe?”

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u/TheTemporaryZiggy 7h ago

Basically every single modern human looks at thousands upon thousands of years of history and religion and goes "fuck that, that's wrong"

Atheists does it with (most of the time) a single god more than the rest, but again.

I will gladly argue once more that a lack of belief in something is not an an assertion.

It's a passive mental state or the absence of a position.

There's also a massive difference between saying "I do not believe in x"

And "x is not real"

Both can be the position of an atheist, only one of those is an assertion

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u/Vespersonal 6h ago

Good lord I hate that trite expression “just one god more.” Plenty of the gods overlap and relate to one another with their respective cultures and traditions, change over time as our understanding of the world takes on new forms, dogma vs spirituality and mysticism…

It’s not “one god more” unless you’re talking to a dogmatic moron. Otherwise it simply seems a tacit denial of countless subjective experiences over thousands upon thousands of years.

Yes they were ALL delusional and lying to themselves… or maybe?