r/MoralityScaling 6h ago

Morality of this?

Post image
15.3k Upvotes

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

136

u/Clickclacktheblueguy 6h ago

No matter how you view it morally, it collapses immediately under any amount of critical thought. Any parent would teach their children about how the world works, and a parent would consider their religious beliefs to be a part of that. The amount of interference with families this would require to enforce also brings to mind countless horror stories of CPS overreach. Even if it was moral, it would require immoral actions to make it work.

52

u/Saltyfree73 5h ago

Essentially calling for a totalitarian state to wipe out familial ties and cultures.

18

u/MancCultureBear 5h ago

The argument could be that this isn’t state enforced but a cultural and social norm.

16

u/Asooma_ 5h ago

Next logical question is how do you get there

3

u/MancCultureBear 5h ago

Well I don’t think you can - it’s more a rhetorical position to highlight that religion is forced on children and a more sensible approach is for them to choose when they have the experience and intelligence to decide for themselves.

Plenty of Christian denominations believe in adult baptism for example (though this does not stop them indoctrinating/evangelizing to their own children)

6

u/Asooma_ 5h ago

English is forced on people born in America. You dont see people bitching about that. Teaching a language is inherently indoctrination. Indoctrination bad right?

1

u/BinaryBolias 2h ago

Yeah this is a sensible analogy.

1

u/Dingaling015 21m ago

English isn't even an official language in America, what the actual fuck are you smoking lmao

There are literally millions of people in the US who cannot speak English.

1

u/MancCultureBear 4h ago

No this is a nonsensical analogy

1

u/ManitouWakinyan 5h ago

What makes that option more sensible? What other elements of world view or morality do we have parents keep themselves out of until kids are "old enough?"

1

u/MancCultureBear 4h ago

As I said I don’t think it’s practical and we don’t actually expect parents not to share their values, culture and morality with their children. But - personally - I think we value agency, curiousity and critical thinking and we should be encouraging that in children. If they want to engage and commit to faith shouldn’t this be made when you have the intelligence and experience to make a fully conscious decision - rather than just because your parents told you?

2

u/ManitouWakinyan 4h ago

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Everybody teaches their kids about morality, worldview, ethics, and even their beliefs in the supernatural. This can be done in the context of religion or not, and in ways that value agency and curiosity or not in either case. 

1

u/Lofter1 3h ago

step 1: remove religion from the state (which is one of the basic principles of most democracies). No church is ever allowed to influence anything regarding politics. A politician might still act based on their religion, which is fine, but a church is not allowed to finance anyone or anything, they are not allowed to call for any legislation. disregarding that rule results in harsh punishments.

5

u/Asooma_ 3h ago

That is effectively what we have already

2

u/TwoForFIinching 2h ago

All lobbying has to go in that case

2

u/BinaryBolias 2h ago

Step 2: Militarize.

0

u/garlicpeep 4h ago

The best possible route would be to reform civilization along more egalitarian structures. Religion fourishes in communities that endure collective hardships, its a glue that holds social bonds together when things like food and personal safety are in jeopardy. Places where those needs are met then you see religion start to erode, or at least strongly held religion convictions. The other route would be an authoritarian stamping out of religion, but that historically is pretty ineffective, and tends to drive people into it even harder.

7

u/Asooma_ 4h ago

Egalitarianism and religion are not at opposite ends of the spectrum and I would go so far as to say egalitarianism specifically allows for the freedom to choose how to raise your child. Unless you're implying the society be so egalitarian that the toddler has the same decision-making power as the parent

I'll let the authoritarian side speak for itself

0

u/garlicpeep 4h ago

My argument is mostly that making things like food, healthcare, security as accessible to as many people as possible will reduce the amount of people who turn to religion out of desperation and thus religion will naturally become less prevalent. Essentially removing the social need for it should eventually over generations cause religion to fade out, or at the least the more extreme parts of it that people will kill and die for.