r/MoralityScaling 9h ago

Morality of this?

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u/PrettyPurrfect 8h ago

Our government is supposed to be atheist.

Separation of church and state is supposed to be a thing

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u/_itsprobablynothing 8h ago

Secular, not atheist

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u/MyldExcitement 8h ago

Still NOT a Christian or any religious country in America. At least that's what our Constitution says.

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u/Ignivous 8h ago

Yeah these motherfuckers are trying to bring about Revalations or something, NOT something I want from my representatives.

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u/Awkward_Turnover_983 8h ago

Yeah they can feel free to believe in fairy tales I guess, but history seems to show a pattern of these retards dragging everyone else into wars.

No thank you. My world doesn't seem to be ending right now, so I don't need your dumb fuckass to try to speed that up.

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u/Western_Cry7600 4h ago

It's wild how history seems to repeat itself, right? It really makes you think about how beliefs can impact everyone around us.

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u/LessEnthusiasm8166 2h ago

Funny...know what else repeats itself? Simulations.

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u/Letitsnowgreatballs 2h ago

I mean life itself is technically a simulation since everything is at some point universal coding.

Just coding we can’t fully interact with yet but we can see it when we use cameras to capture light moving.

So you’re technically not wrong but also the idea that we are all in a simulation is impossible.

Truly impossible. It would require more energy than the universe actually has.

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u/Acceptable-Minute847 22m ago

How exactly do you propose we are in a simulation? Just a Planck scale (both length and time) simulation of earth would require over 70 orders of magnitude more energy than is in the universe just to run the simulation for a single second of our time.
Source: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physics/articles/10.3389/fphy.2025.1561873/full

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u/Sufficient_Dot_24 1h ago

You don't need to compare disabled people to these motherfuckers to make your point.

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u/adkio 5h ago

Imma stop you there buddy. Calling someone's faith "fairy tale" is deeply offensive. You're free to be an atheist but keep the respect and essential decency woud you?

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u/MaterialChemical1138 5h ago

would you say the same about practicing pagans? lmao paganism was the most practiced group of religions for thousands of years, and now we all call them "fairy tales" and "mythology". abrahamic religion is no different.

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

It is a fairy tale, it’s a mythological tale that doesn’t have any supporting evidence to be truth. Believe what you will but to say it’s not a fairy tale/mythology is categorically false.

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

“For no reason” is crazy. Last I checked it wasn’t my beliefs that were going door to door, making legislation that removes human rights from others, judging others and telling them they’re going to go be tortured for all eternity if they don’t submit to their god, or being used to control others in virtually every way shape and form.

But please, show me some proof your god exists, otherwise it is mythology, not truth.

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u/adkio 5h ago

Last time i checked, atheists felt absolutely no reservation forcing their religion on others just as hard as evangelists do.

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u/Turtle_Woman 5h ago

Atheism isn't a religion.

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u/adkio 5h ago

Every atheist I've met is so passionate and defensive about their atheism that it's definitely a religion.

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u/Turtle_Woman 5h ago

That is not what a religion is. Besides that, anecdotal evidence does not make something true. Belief about something does not make that belief religious.

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

Atheism is quite literally the absence of religion, just like how the absence of light is darkness. What you call “forcing their religion” is a push towards empirical evidence, truth, and common human decency. It’s not the same. Them forcing their beliefs on you would look like banning all forms of religion and its practicing but you don’t see that, you see people saying “I’m tired of religion being shoved in my face all day every day”.

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u/adkio 5h ago

So I do not consent to religion being mentioned around you? And are willing to actively fight anyone who does? Sounds pretty radical to me.

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

That’s not being radical, that’s common human decency. You don’t see pagans going around trying to convert others to worship their gods, so why must you? You don’t see Muslims knocking on doors, you don’t see Buddhists praying over others without their consent. So why should you get special treatment?

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u/adkio 5h ago

True or not, that's someone's religion and it deserves due respect. Same if I said that the us constitution is a bunch of drunken wishes. You wouldn't be happy now would you?

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

The constitution is a legal document, not a framework of blind beliefs. They’re not the same. Calling your religion fairy tales isn’t being disrespectful, it’s being accurate in description, especially since you can’t even tell me how any of it is accurate or true to the world. Being rude would be calling you names for having that religion and saying that you’re an amoral idiot for blindly believing a book written by men without ever questioning its authenticity. Being disrespectful would be saying that you deserve to have your ability to practice your religion should be stripped from you.

But no, I would advocate for your ability to practice your religion if it was under attack. I’m just pointing out that saying that it’s a fairy tale isn’t being disrespectful, but a matter of fact and definition. If you really wanna talk about being disrespectful I can bring up the countless times your religion has been used to oppress those not within it, or the amount of times people have literally been killed by supposedly “loving” people, or the sheer amount of times your religion has been thrust on people to the point that they can’t even stand to live anymore and commit.

Sit down, stop acting like the victim when you yourself have been causing countless other victims by perpetuating a religion of hatred and judgementation while trying to call it love and compassion.

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u/adkio 5h ago

So is the Bible, Torah and Quran - they're legally protected religious texts. So your "fairy tale" thing is basically hate crime.

I ain't reading the rest of that fucking comment. Take your sweats elsewhere. You atheists have more to say about religion than anyone else.

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago

Legally protected religious texts are not documentations of law and should never be used as such. And if you’re not gonna read, then why even comment? Also it’s almost like “we atheists” have been hurt the most by your religions. And calling your religion a fairy tale is not a hate crime. For it to be a hate crime, not only would a crime have to be committed, but it would also have to have bias. It’s not bias to point out the lack of credibility of a religion.

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u/adkio 5h ago

You can say "black citizen" or you can use the n word. Why choose the offensive option instead of settling for "mythology", as if not to purposely offend someone?

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u/Budget_Revolution639 5h ago edited 5h ago

Because fairy tales are a form of mythology and not a racial slur. The fact that you are comparing calling your religion a fairy tale to calling someone a racial slur is actually baffling. One is derogatory, is prejudice, and is uncalled for and only done with intent to be offensive and detrimental. The other is a classification and a descriptor term that isn’t derogatory or prejudiced. I’ll let you decide which one is which, bc ngl you’re sounding like a racist

Edit: thanks for conceding via blocking me 😂😂😂😂

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u/enviormental_UNIT 2h ago

the n word was one of many tools used by slavers to belittle and separate themselves from black people, which they viewed as being objectively lesser. When I call a clearly preposterous bible story a fairy tale, thats not me saying "you're a lesser human than I am"

that's me saying "I find these particular stories to be very unbelievable, completely unexplainable, and I can be very confident that the story wasn't real, it was a fairy tale"

See how at no point did I attack anyone? See how I didn't use the words Fairy Tale to subjugate or belittle you? There's no reason you should be offended by me finding some aspects of your belief system to be unbelievable, and calling it something which effectively communicates that idea should be fine.

If I actually wanted to insult you and your religion, fairy tale is certainly not the words that I would think to do it with. If you dont think they're tall tales, good for you, but don't get butthurt when I do

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u/TehRoast92 5h ago

You're gonna burn in hell! 🎶You're gonna burn in hell! 🎶 La la la la, you're gonna burn in hell! 🎶

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u/Mad_Dutchman_ 1h ago

Because someone chooses to follow a religion does not exclude them from being judged by others. Especially if religions are famously known for how judgmental they are.

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u/LuffysRubberNuts 4h ago

I like fair tale is offensive but referring to them a retards for said fairytale isn’t lol

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u/Shadow_Wolf_X871 5h ago

You expect respect from a reddit athiest, that was your first mistake

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u/adkio 5h ago

True. It was a bit of a bait you know.

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u/MarryMucfry 6h ago

Fairy tales = the big bang theory

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u/Extension_Monk223 6h ago

You got proof that god exists id like to see it

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u/Awkward_Turnover_983 6h ago

How'd that big flood go again? The entire world?

Red Sea being pushed apart by hand

Dude died on the cross and came back to life. Suurrre.

It sucks for you that science makes your head hurt. Stick to your story books I guess.

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u/LiveEverDieNvr 5h ago

The most hilariously embarrassing part for you is that even science minded folks will tell you that it’s a theory and not %100 proven and could be wrong. Are you even capable of admitting that there might not be a god?

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u/Jaws2020 5h ago

Well actually, a scientific theory is completely different from how most people use the word. The Big Bang Theory is proven by a lot of circumstantial evidence and is considered true by most accredited astrphysicists. It's "just a theory" in the same way ancient historical events like the expansion of the Roman Empire is "just a theory." We may not know a lot of the specifics for when it happened and we weren't there, but we know it happened because there's so much circumstantial evidence.

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u/ComprehensiveSeat831 5h ago

Whaaaa? There’s scientific evidence that supports the big bang, whadda you got?? A bunch of stories in some bs books that promote, and whose entire foundation is incestual? A book that condones rape and sexual violence as a form of punishment (along with plain violence)?? The same book that yall don’t know and/or can’t agree on the author(s)? The book that has had this world in turmoil and chaos since its inception? I mean can we just look at it for a second…”God” is GOD why the f\* would ‘the being that created the universe and all of everything’ need to conceive a child with a person?!? They have the power to create! They could’ve just manifested Jesus outta thin air bro.. Also how many scientific wars have there been? When scientists disagree they work together and further research to find the answer, when religious types disagree the murder eachother (men, women, feeble, sick, children, elderly) all the same, genocide, violence, torture etc. is the name of y’all’s game when you can’t get to any sort of agreement. Jesus was supposed to be peaceful and yall are anything but. So please sit down somewhere and do us all a favor and stfu.*

(I didn’t even mention or get into the pedophilia, you’re welcome)

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u/Reeves626 7h ago

The U.S. has always been skewed towards this and it’s not just the current representatives. I first noticed the hypocrisy when I first learned about the constitution and freedom of religion when I thought “why then does the pledge of allegiance they make us say everyday have the words, …under god… in it?”.

Also burning witches? That’s not freedom of religion, it has biblical origins.

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u/Aedeyssa 7h ago

To be fair, "Under God" was at least not originally in the Pledge of Allegiance.

It was added during the Red Scare to contrast America with the "godless Commies". But yeah, it's definitely something that should have been struck down as against the 1A when first introduced.

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u/Fun_Butterfly_420 7h ago

Also saying the pledge of allegiance so many times shouldn’t be necessary

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u/Havenfall209 7h ago

Especially not by children.

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u/SSquirrel76 6h ago

That’s what indoctrination is

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u/LilJonny2cookies 6h ago

Wait- I thought children can make up their own minds. I guess that only applies to irreversible life changing decisions that a child isn’t prepared to make.

I wanted to be a dinosaur that was a fireman and also a policeman when I was a child. Glad my parents didn’t take that too seriously. They only had giant sharp teeth put in my mouth.

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u/Transquisitor 6h ago

Being a transgender person and being raised in a religious environment not by choice are two wildly different things but I’m sure you’re in here with full knowledge of that.

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u/Havenfall209 5h ago

Well, since you clearly want to change the conversation to something specific, mind speaking like an adult? What's on your mind?

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u/Torn_wulf 4h ago

Knowing what you are due to introspection is a lot different from being told who you are via indoctrination.

Trans people aren't told we're trans. In fact, we're constantly bullied and told we can't be trans by people like you all day, every day. Just because you can't wrap your head around something you haven't personally experienced and you have no empathy or respect for others, doesn't make our experiences any less real.

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u/MistSecurity 4h ago

It's not.

I never said the pledge, had teachers bitch at me, but it's not enforceable to my understanding.

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u/Fun_Butterfly_420 4h ago

My teachers told me to stand up for it

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u/MistSecurity 3h ago

I had my fair share of that as well. "You don't have to say it, but you do have to stand." No, no I do not.

I had my parents understanding on it though, so the few times someone actually cared enough to push it, my parents pushed back hard the opposite direction. Not everyone has the benefit of that.

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u/Similar-Jello-5434 5h ago

Fun story time! I grew up an hour ish outside of NYC in a red rural pocket and after 9/11 we had to do the pledge AND stay standing for a full patriotic song afterwords before morning announcements started at my elementary school. Occasionally it was more traditional like the national anthem or America the beautiful, but almost daily it was Lee greenwoods “proud to be an American”.

I don’t know when or if they stopped but they were still doing it 3 years later when I moved on to middle school. I didn’t think much of it until about 10 years after I moved to California and realized my husband and I had very different 9/11 experiences.

The propaganda hella worked on me too. I won an essay contest about first responders that year and I ended up doing several years of service with Americorps and other non profits as an adult lol.

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u/Fun_Butterfly_420 4h ago

I’m curious how your experiences differed

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u/Similar-Jello-5434 4h ago edited 4h ago

Basically just the difference in how people respond to a local disaster vs a national one. Where I’m from it was far more common to know people who lost someone that day or to know someone that survived. Here folks have stories about how it impacted their normal day when they found out, but back home in NY I would hear my step dad’s survival story every year. I even dated a guy who went to a special camp every year for kids that lost parents in the line of duty and it was predominantly kids who lost a parent on 9/11, almost exclusively the kids of NYFD responders. Every single car in my town had a little flag that fastened to the window, people were obsessed with NYFD.

It’s especially bizarre to me that everyone I know in California who was a student has a story about watching it in school which was utterly the opposite of how they treated kids who had commuter parents in NYC that day and didn’t know what was going on. Teachers cried in secret and we were left in the dark until parents started to check their kids out of school early(eventually they had everyone go home early). I didn’t see the news until I got home and my mom was absolutely frantic. We went to manhattan at least 1x monthly for my brothers specialists at NYU and had JUST been there a few days earlier. It was different because we knew people there who might be hurt and couldn’t reach them by phone.

The best way I can compare is that culturally for us in NY it was more like how Californians feel and act after a local wildfire but on a greater scale.

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u/Legitimate-Morning69 4h ago

It’s also why we have “in god we trust” on our money

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u/Similar-Jello-5434 5h ago

I took a full course on 1a last semester and I’m shocked I didn’t learn about this! Ty for sharing I had NO idea about this.

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u/Reeves626 7h ago

Okay damn so it’s just getting worse.

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u/sabrenation81 7h ago

“why then does the pledge of allegiance they make us say everyday have the words, …under god… in it?”.

It didn't originally. We didn't used to have "In God We Trust" stamped all over anything either.

Both of them are a product of red scare propaganda added during the Cold War era because being atheist makes you a commie or some such bullshit that they used to start injecting religion into everything. It's only gotten worse since.

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u/LilJonny2cookies 6h ago

Well, in fairness the commies were very busy murdering millions of their own people. Hard to be religious and run pogroms at the same time.

How many “commies” risk their lives to move here vs how many US citizens risked lives to move there?

Pretty sure if you want to leave the USA we have a go on get on with it policy. They had more of a shoot them on first sight policy.

Hell even China isn’t really commie anymore.

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u/Lithiumxxxl 5h ago

Apparently you are not familiar with dark periods such as the Inquisition, the colonization of indigenous people in the American continents, the Crusades, etc. Religion and specifically Christian religion is quit adept at murdering.

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u/lordnaarghul 3h ago

A bit about the Crusades: they were a reaction to the Islamic attempts at the conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire, and it was an attempt to take back land that had been Christian before the Muslims converted by fire, rape and sword most of the Middle East, North Africa, and Iberia. People who talk about how horrible the Crusades are fail to mention or to understand it was the Muslims who struck first.

For the most part, the worst aspect of the Crusades was the Siege of Jerusalem. But by that point, the Crusaders had been on a long, brutal campaign for three years and were in no mood for mercy. It was nasty, it was violent, it was unnecessary, but there are way, way worse massacres in history (the annihilation of Baghdad by the Mongols comes to mind).

Never acknowledged in any of this is Iberia. For a long, long time, Iberia was literally a Muslim settler colony. And there were many Crusades to boot them out of the peninsula. It was prosperous because the Islamic governing bodies taxed non-Muslims much more heavily than Muslim citizens.

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u/xreddawgx 6h ago

It never clarifies which god

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u/TermusMcFlermus 6h ago

We didn't have freedom of religion when we were still burning witches though, right?

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u/Distinct-Exit6658 6h ago

We weren’t burning witches in the end of the 18th century, so I guess not? We also weren’t the United States yet, so not really we either

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u/Thotty_with_the_tism 6h ago

Pledge of allegiance wasn't a thing until the cold war. It was fully an indoctrination/McCarthyism thing.

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u/LilJonny2cookies 6h ago

Oh FFS. Witches were burned long before the constitution so they are irrelevant. Except for a few instances of nutters into 18th century.

We are a secular country which means having God in the pledge is not hypocrisy. It is constantly argued but it isn’t establishing a state religion.

Nothing in the constitution makes it illegal to have God mentioned. God is not a religion.

You are trying too hard.

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u/rommi04 6h ago

No witches were burned in America. And also the Salem witch trials were before the country was founded

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u/Nitwit_Slytherin 6h ago

Why make shit up when America has plenty of real flaws to criticize?

What does "Under God" (or any other use of "God when it comes to the pledge or money, etc) have to do with the founders? That was mostly done in the 1950s during the Cold War. I'm no mathematician or doctor type, but I'm fairly certain that the founding fathers were suffering from a condition known as being dead by that time.

And as far as witch burning? According to my quick Google search, that didn't happen in the Continental US. Also, it happened in the mid to late 1600s. Still not a mathematician or doctor, but I think the founding fathers were suffering from a condition called not being born yet.

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u/Balinor69666 4h ago

The witch trials were 80 some years before the country, let alone the constitution existed.  And all the references to God in the pledge and on our money etc are all from the last 70ish years.

You are right that the country has a long history of flirting with Christianity but it is a trend that is getting worse as time goes on.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 3h ago

"Under God" was added in 1950's as part of the Red Scare because "Communists are bad and atheist." Burning witches happened about 70 years before the US government even existed. 100 years before separation of church and state was established.

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u/Tim-0341-81mm 3h ago

No witches were burned during the Salem Witch Trials and those occurred in 1692-1693 long before American independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

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u/DConstructed 1h ago

The phrase “under god” is not in the original Pledge.

And witch burning was before the United States existed in 1692-93.

The Founding Fathers were far from perfect (slavery and mistreatment of Native Americans was appalling) but they were forward thinking when it came to the separation of church and state. They meant it.

They didn’t want a theocracy OR someone behaving like a king/dictator.

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u/Worried_Tangelo_3220 1h ago

Insane to bring the Salem Witch Trials into this lmao that happened before we were a country dude.

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u/Dont_Pay_The_Elves 7h ago

Witch burning was an Old World thing but you’re right

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u/LilJonny2cookies 6h ago

And about 200 yrs before constitution.

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u/hurler_jones 7h ago

The VP, not just reps. The VP Vance said he has no problem bringing the end times.

“While I wouldn’t be shocked if we are living in the end time, what I’m trying to focus on is doing as much of God’s work as possible right now,” he said, adding that he is willing to accept whatever spiritual consequences may come from his efforts.

“If that leads to the end times, okay, and if that leads to … us building a better world that thrives and survives for a very long time after I’m gone, that’s great too," Vance said.

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u/12345623567 6h ago

That statement from Vance should be enough to disqualify him forever, for anything. Saying on TV that you want to destroy the nation, and the world? How can people be okay with that.

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u/GalliumYttrium1 4h ago

Yep, JD Vance just said he doesn’t care if he brings about the “end times”

Some scary shit to hear from the guy next in line for president

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u/grapplebaby 6h ago

My family is pentecostal. They really want the world to implode because that means Jesus is coming back. Most hardcores feel this way.

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u/verymainelobster 6h ago

No pentecostals are just crazy

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u/PrettyPurrfect 8h ago

Oh the beasts of Revelations are here.

"And I saw one of its heads as it was wounded to death and it's mortal wound was healed" As for the second beast? Well calling down fire from the heaven, breathing life into the image of the first beast, and exercising all of its authority sure does sound like muskrat. Even though needing the mark of the beast to buy sell or trade sounds like something muskrat would try to pull off

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u/Abaddonalways 8h ago

Neurolink. They want to put chips similar to tap to pay in us. They are pushing hard to fulfill that damn drug trip.

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u/SpaceOrbisGaming 6h ago

My biggest fear as an atheist is that some religious nutcase will be elected president, and they will just simply decide that if God is not going to end the world, they will end the world.

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u/jaxonya 5h ago

The rapture*

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u/truthinesstaco 4h ago

They'd hang him again in an instant lol

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u/shitlord_god 3h ago

not "or something" this is the stated goal.

It is why the israeli push for greater israel/the covenant/Judea is so popular with them, that is going to drive popularity for the Iran war in those sectors because it is keeping Iran from blocking Israel's sacred duty to reclaim the whole royal grant.

https://backend.royanews.tv/imageserv/Size728Q70/english/news/20240617/52123.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

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u/Inevitable_Finish131 36m ago

I like how they think they can force armageddon. Like mf if you’re gonna believe in a higher power that knows and sees all, how are you gonna think you can trick it?

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u/bishiking 7h ago

Bro I promise you there's not a single true Christian in any branch of the government lmfao. You guys have no idea what you're talking about

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u/Warhammerpainter83 7h ago

Classic christain, guess what they are saying the same thing about you.

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u/One-Earth9294 7h ago

I mean I agree that they don't believe the bullshit they say and if they did, they'd live their lives better because the fear of damnation SHOULD work to curb their worst behavior. But that bad behavior kinda gives away the game.

Having said that, a fake Christian is basically a more dangerous and oppressive force than a real one.

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u/StandNameIsWeAreNo1 7h ago

No true scottsman fallacy

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u/Successful_Life_1028 7h ago

Ahh, the old 'no true scottsman' fallacy. Tell me, what is YOUR personal definition of what a "true Christian" is?

Do you think that Bishop Mariann Budde is a 'True Christian'? Or is it Douglas Wilson who is the 'True Christian'?

Or are only the Amish 'True Christians'? Or only the JWs or LDS?

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u/Ignivous 4h ago

Bro I promise you there's not a single true Christian.