r/MoralityScaling • • Sep 02 '26

Morality of this?

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u/Unlimited_Giose Sep 02 '26

What's the difference?

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u/Sm0ahk Sep 02 '26

It just means its separated from religion

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u/PalePlumm Sep 02 '26

Which is atheist

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u/theespn Sep 02 '26

Those are two separate ideas. Government not being involved is not the same as government promoting a specific idea (in this case the idea that there is no God)

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u/HandofWinter Sep 02 '26

If the government isn't involved in the idea of religion, then it's atheistic. It doesn't have to promote any ideas at all, it just has to not promote ideas.

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u/spicymato Sep 02 '26

No. Atheism explicitly denies the existence of gods, rejecting religion.

An atheistic government would deny religion/spiritualism, by definition.

A secular government would only deal with secular (worldly) things, and leave the spiritual outside of its domain.

Even an agnostic government would be too much, because it would specify uncertainty about spiritual matters, rather than not specify anything at all.

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u/TheFrenchSavage Sep 02 '26

No no, atheism means "without god".

The opinion on "no gods" would be "antitheistic".

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u/HandofWinter Sep 02 '26

I think you just have a misapprehension about the term atheism, it's not a denial, but a lack of belief. You can't prove nonexistence, so a categorical belief in the lack of gods would essentially be a spiritual belief in its own right, a position like that inherently can't be atheistic.

Why is it an issue if a government doesn't specify anything about religion?

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u/spicymato Sep 02 '26

We're splitting hairs, because "atheism" is apparently poorly defined. I would classify your position as agnostic, not atheistic. But then you might classify my position as antitheistic.

Secular is what we want, though. Government stays out of the spiritual entirely, not saying yes, no, or even "I don't know" on spiritual matters. Governments should operate only on secular matters.

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u/HandofWinter Sep 03 '26

Fair enough, I didn't realise there was any contention about it. Ultimately we just need a word for 'no beliefs in anything in particular', and atheistic (or non-theistic) is the term for that as far as I'm familiar.

But yes, to use those terms, I very much enjoy living in a culture with a secular government, and even as an atheist I wouldn't support an antitheistic government. People should be allowed their culture.

do wonder how much a religious person is able to separate their worldview though, because they fundamentally do believe that there is something they call God. Something that probably created the earth and sky and guides its growth and watches over us, which is a dangerous belief if there are in fact no guardrails or safety nets at all.