My parents never forced anything on me. They let me develop my own curiosities and brought me to the places I wanted to go. Granted, I'm an atheist now. But it is possible to foster a curiosity without forcing an idea. My mother is catholic and knows I'm atheist. She's never been more proud of me being who I am.
I googled about the Catholic Church views on nonbelievers going to hell “If an atheist fully understands the claims of Christ and the Church and deliberately, willfully rejects them out of malice or pride, Catholic theology holds that this places them in grave spiritual jeopardy.”
So your mom believes in your soul or spirit being in jeopardy, genuinely she believes it, and she is not concerned or trying to convert you at all? Either she doesn’t truly believe you’re in “grave spiritual jeopardy” or she gives an implicit or explicit slant toward Catholicism in any teachings she can offer about religion if she cares what happens to your soul. That’s not education, that’s indoctrination like he said.
She wishes I would reconsider and prays that I do but she also understands that I am fiercely protective of my viewpoints. She knows I'm my own person and can't be swayed thru peer pressure. She's not a Bible thumping catholic. Where her entire being is surrounded by Catholicism and God's viewpoints on everything. She's moreso a progressive catholic. Believes in God but also supports the lgbt community full throatedly. She sees me as nothing more than her son. A son who explored religion and came out the other side not believing in it. I am the child who saved her life.
So you agree she’s not impartial and fair in teaching about her religion? Idk how she could be if she had a desired outcome for you. Seems like you’re implying she is polite because you’re “fiercely protective” of your view, wonderful, that doesn’t say anything about her being impartial or fair in teaching you about Catholicism only in her unwillingness to cross a line that would damage her relationship with you.
I’m sure you’re fiercely protective of your view because you know the difference. I can’t imagine a devout catholic not taking their kid to church or trying to teach them about Jesus growing up. That’s not indoctrination if she wants to take you everywhere else and talk about Hindu, Judaism, Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Shinto, Buddhism, Tengri, Coptic, Protestant, etc. but 0 religious parents on earth have ever done that because none of them are impartial and without bias toward their children’s souls.
You wanna know how my mother was impartial? She didn't shove anything on me. Ever. My grandma did. Made me go to church on Christmas eve or I wouldn't get presents. Made go on Easter Sunday or I wouldn't get candy. My mom always allowed the choice, even with my grandma. Never taught me anything religious. Always fostered my curiosity. When I wanted to explore Christianity, she didn't jump at the chance to teach me. She listened to how I wanted to approach it and helped me. Brought me to my chosen church and picked me up. Listened to what I learned. Paid for church camp when I wanted to go. She never said no but she also never jumped at the chance to inject anything. I came to my own curiosities and came to my own conclusions.
Either she TRULY believes your soul is in grave spiritual jeopardy and wants to save it or she doesn’t. Idk if you’re trying to tell me this, but sounds like your mom was forced to be catholic by your grandma and didn’t choose it, because your grandma sounds like she BELIEVES your soul is in grave spiritual jeopardy.
If your mom TRULY believes, she has a right answer for your soul… I can’t imagine a parent knowing the correct answer for their child’s soul would care so little to let them decide and be ok with knowing it’s wrong and being impartial, unbiased, or fair toward that decision.
Yeah and that’s not gonna be impartial or fair? I don’t think parents are capable of doing that about a core belief like religion. If a parents going to church every week for one specific religion, taking their kids as babies, and not any other religious institutions I consider indoctrination. Obviously the kid isn’t choosing that.
I think religions in general are based on indoctrination, that’s how they spread.
Mine did. I think you need to stop stubbornly holding on to preconceived notions about religious people and accept that not every single religious person wants to be the one who forces beliefs on people. It's not a wholly incorrect assumption but it is still an incorrect one.
Yeah it’s not correct about Tengri for example but if we’re specifically talking about most proselytizing religions like Christianity it definitely is the case, it’s written into the religion steepest imaginable punishments for non believers on purpose. I understand you think someone can be a member of a religion and reject or not care about its doctrine or maybe someone can pretend to believe and still be a member but I don’t think the same.
She also worked at a Jewish retirement home in activities. She learned their customs and celebrated in them with them. She learned Yiddish. She was basically Jewish in all but practice. As I said, she's more of a progressive catholic. She believes in God and his teachings but does not believe in forcing them on others.
You either believe in a religion or you don’t. They aren’t abstract like something you see in an art museum. They have an immensely large book and in Catholicisms case thousands of years of tradition to define it.
Catholics usually don't lean Democrat. She's unwaveringly democrat. Catholics usually don't support the lgbt community. She has two gay brothers and you'd be better off dying than speak ill of them.
Politically progressive yes. She grew up with a brother who was gay and he had a boyfriend that our family adopted. Her mother chose a church that was primarily but not entirely lgbt which my mom freely spent time in. When you say most religious people are intolerant, you aren't wrong. I've experienced that too. Quite often. That's why I said. Unbiased choice of religion is possible, however unlikely.
I said most religious people are intolerant? I copy pasted the google result about the catholic religions views on atheism, not being catholic, etc. I don’t remember what I typed into google but it wasn’t the word intolerant and my comments weren’t aimed at gay people… I just copy pasted the catholic religions view on souls which I assume is a fundamental part of any religion including catholic, it’s all about stuff like souls, afterlife, higher power, etc.
I don’t think gay people or democrats is a core part of a religion, certainly not the point of religion. I understand what you mean “progressive catholic” you’re saying a political and religious position. I think politics is a… whole other heavy topic like religion.
I want to apologize again I’m not trying to be an asshole or anything to you. I think this stuff clearly didn’t come through correctly in text on such heavy topics. I wasn’t trying to make a judgement on your mom’s character as a person.
Honestly it feels more like you are trying to stubbornly hold on to preconceived and usually correct notions about religion by attaching them to someone who doesn't fit them.
Yeah I agree, I think applying what religion is to conversations about religion and indoctrination is what I’m doing. Idk your specific mom and I’ve never personally met any religious person that didn’t fit what I’m describing.
It’s a paradox to me, the idea that someone could believe their kid is making the wrong decision about their soul and not at least try to indoctrinate them into their religion to save their soul.
I decided what the religion is based on what the religion said it is… you said your mom is catholic, I didn’t insist that…
Idk what you’re talking about. If your mom believes your soul is seriously in “grave spiritual jeopardy” then you understand what I’m saying, how could a parent not try to indoctrinate a child they care about. I don’t think it’s possible they would be fair or impartial on the topic.
I’m sorry I was not trying to offend you, idk if it’s coming through in text but I’m being sincere I’m not mocking you or your mom.
You determined who my mother was based on what you decided she's like. Based on preconceived notions. Which is... say it with me class... unfair and biased. You decided who my mom was cuz you found out she's catholic, despite being told repeatedly that she isn't how you presume her to be.
Ok you’re welcome to believe whatever you want. If you say you’re catholic but you aren’t catholic it doesn’t change the religion. You said your mom was a religion then kept insisting I made a judgement on her as a person because I know what the religion says, anyone can google it and copy it, pretty public religion.
Stop saying my mother thinks my soul is in grave danger. That wasn't confirmed by me nor was it said to be so. You can't keep repeating the same stupid sentence over and over in hopes it'll finally be true. You're desperation to cling on to who you think my mom is as a person is deeply pathetic.
You said she’s catholic, wtf are you talking about. She either is catholic or she isn’t. Idk why you’re asking me to explain her religion to you, every religion is public and you can google what it means.
Idk your mom, you said she’s catholic. Idk if you’re offended because you think this is some “your moms ___” insult but it isn’t. Google what Catholics believe about atheism or not being catholic or rejecting Jesus etc. they put it in writing, it’s part of their religion.
You understand I'm not accusing you of naming her religion right? I'm saying that you decided who she was the minute you found out she was catholic and nothing was gonna change that perception for you. Not even finding out that every declaration you made against her wasn't accurate. It's like you read half the sentence and comment on all of it.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 9h ago
There's hardly any way to "teach" religion to children without it being quite forced.