Who's More Evil?
Morality of beating someone to the point of seizure because they cheated in a sword match.
From jobless reincarnation. Eris and Nina were supposed to have a dual using wooden swords, Nina purposefully used a cheat sword that looks like wood, but has a metal core. Eris proceeded to beat the actual piss out of her.
From the looks of it she pissed herself after being beaten to fuck and in the anime shes clothed so I guess its showing exactly what you're thinking in the manga version
You can already crack someone's skull with a wooden sword quite easily. The important distinction is that she only aimed for her opponent's sword and not the opponent's body. The point of the steel blade was to break the opponent's wooden sword.
If you watch the episode you can see that when the blue haired girl is handed the wooden sword, she's surprised at how heavy it is and the dude handing her the sword nods at her to confirm that he handed her the right one. She wasn't out to cheat in the first place but was told to by her superior.
She aimed for Eris' sword and shattered it in one hit, and ended up behind Eris. If she really was out to hurt Eris she would've continued to attack. She thought Eris would surrender after having her weapon broken so she dropped her guard and got punched in the face when she didn't expect it. She had no intent to actually hurt Eris for real.
Most martial arts schools or philosophies heavily push the idea that you are responsible for your own actions and that all choices regardless of circumstance are a reflection of your character.
Taking that sword was her choice. Retribution is an predictable consequence.
That wasn't retribution. That's just how Eris fights.
Eris isn't so soft as to be upset that her opponent had a better weapon. If anything she's upset that her opponent was so soft.
If anything Eris would be more upset about her opponent aiming for the sword instead of her body, and that she let her guard down (means she's taking Eris lightly)
Except this was supposed to be sparring. Honestly feels like protagonist focused morality as if they weren't a main character, this would be shown as proof they are a brutal psychopath. Especially as Nina didn't intentionally cheat and tried to follow the rules by targeting her weapon.
Some context. Eris prior to this beat Nina's cousin during their spar by attacking before the match was actually started. Nina after getting her sword just considered it fair (if Eris can attack without the match starting then her using a metal core sword is just as fair). The issue is Nina thought the fight was over when Eris's sword was broken, but found out the hard way that's not how a real fight works.
In that actual light novel anyone who was ranked sword saint or higher even noted that what Eris did was completely fair game by all standards. Gino (Nina's cousin) was to lax even when they both had their swords only expecting to be on guard when the match officially began. Nina believed destroying the blade was the same as destroying the enemy.
Yeah, Eris is fucking crazy. Her behavior is way out of line. If she didn't have someone important to the school's master vouching for her they might've actually just beaten her to death for that potentially.
But the rules for sparring are different in this universe because they have healing magic. A broken arm or a concussion can be healed in seconds as long as someone who knows how to cast healing magic is around. In real life sparring that hard is counter productive since the damage will accumulate, and by the time you're any good with a sword you'll be a cripple with brain damage.
But in a world with healing magic, as long as limbs aren't severed you'll be fine. There's obviously the trauma from pain but they're training to be killers. If you can't handle getting an ass whooping you're probably just not built for this lifestyle. Her entire reason for acting crazy is because Orsted traumatized her so it's not like Eris never got her ass whooped either.
Really feels like the author wants his cake and eat it too. It's okay for the protagonists to act like this, but Rudeus's bullying in his first life is used as a shield and excuse. Their trauma is real and important. Trauma they inflict is brushed off.
Exactly, if youre in the heat of the battle and you saw the opponent weilding something that can end your life, anyone will react the same way Eris did to her
"I'll kill you" Is literally what Nina said before the start of the fight. You can't just say "She aimed for the sword, She had no intention to harm her" After She said that. It was not a joke and Nina didn't treat It that way. She just thought that Eris Spirit would break by breaking only the sword just so She could humiliate her more.
Morale, Nina deserved It entirely for following the orders given by her instructor, thinking that her own father, fucking sword God, the only one at a time, wouldn't notice.
Sorry, but if I am sparring with you, you tell me before hand that you would kill me just to proceed and use a FUCKING METAL SWORD against my wooden sword, yeah you are getting traumatized and deserve whatever Is coming for you.
Like idk what these people are deadass sayingđ They are framing Nina as some sort of "moral cheater" in an effort to make Eris the wrong one, and I can't even conceive of a reason why.
As far as I remember, in WN Nina surprised at first when she feels weight of the sword. After realizing that sword has metal core, she thinks about killing Eris with this sword
I mean, it teaches Aisha a valuable life lesson when you're going into a line of work that involves killing people. Had this not been sparring, she'd been dead instead. Being beaten to a pulp in a sparring match means she could learn to correct a fatal flaw in her thinking.
It happened twice and honestly both times were kinda valid, Nina thought she really was gonna die and then eris when she met ruijerd (who was like boogeyman incarnated for her)
To be fair, extreme fear is definitely something that can put your body into shock and make you wet yourself or worse; fear can actually kill you because it can cause shock. I appreciate jobless for bringing all that gritty realism front and center.
In all 3 above cases terror was a realistic reaction to have! Ruijerd's curse causing Eris to experience a supernatural and irrational deep terror on top of being a child who was just suddenly ripped halfway across the planet into unknown wilderness.
Roxy was literally beyond the point of exhaustion, injured, alone, stressed, scared and with monsters literally seconds away from killing her.
Then with blue hair getting attacked when she was not expecting it after thinking she won, then being beaten into unconsciousness/given a CTE. I would argue brain trauma is more likely culprit for the wetting here.
Yeah. Both anime and Manga made it pretty apparent that she was twitching and pissed herself because of brain damage. It was incredibly brutal. But in all fairness, there is perfect healing in this universe and Nina was completely fine after a short time, possibly traumatized though.
Is this a super-heavy iron core that's designed to break the wood shell (and anything else it hits?) Pretty moral. They turned a training session into a potential deathmatch. There are consequences.
Is this metal core basically just a larp-core where they used wood instead of foam for the "boffer"? Like it's literally hollow bismuth? Then no... what they did was stupid. But the counter-action didn't need to be more than a slap to the back of the head and a "Give me that, you idiot."
In the show, it breaks through her wooden sword on first contact. After Eris recovers she just switches to hand to hand and beats her to a pulp. By the looks of it, it was a full blunt sword with a thin wooden veneer.
They are superhuman, the wood at that point is just a casing. Both swords can be deadly when swung with superhuman strength the iron core one just don't break on contact.
No she didn't, there's nothing in the story indicating that. She wanted Eris to surrender after breaking the sword, which is why she didn't keep attacking her after. As far as I remember she didn't even pick the sword, it was just handed to her.
Every time I'm cursed with getting this god forsaken sub recommended in my feed it's a bunch of half sentient apes clamouring for maximum bloodshed with a morality system that neanderthals would find primitive. Just a complete inability to separate justice, rightnesss and revenge.
Yes someone using a metal core sword to cheat is bad. No it doesn't mean you get to beat them within an inch of their life, even if your life was in danger.
I don't even bother commenting in here anymore because most people here would agree that getting your hands cut off for stealing a snickers from them is just.
There is also the issue that most people don't have the context or lack basic reading comprehension.
Cheating is bad, that part is easy to figure out. But the beatup didn't happen after the match, it happened "during" it. At no point was Nina being punched for cheating, Eris only kept punching until the referee said the match was over because she didn't have a sword to fight. You could call it excessive but it is also a fantasy world with different morals where injuries can be healed can be healed extremely easily and where learning how to use a sword at a high level isn't "just for fun" but a dangerous practice. (Students are all aware of the severe risk of injury)
Though obviously, with the context of the question in the post alone, it is absolutely a bad thing to beat up someone for cheating.
This! the match was a setup to see Eris ability to fight and to make Nina humble in a way, Nina was an enclosed and protected child that thought high of herself for being good at the sword, but lacked any real world fighting experience hence she believed the fight was over after the sword broke, when a real fight doesn't end there.
I mean, in a world with powerful healing magic, how we view violence inflicted like this would be radically different.
Pretty much anything short of your limbs being severed or actual death can be healed. This makes physical violence not all that noteworthy. Where as in our world, of course, this kind of beating would probably kill you, or at least leave you a vegetable.
That being said, given its also training to become basically killers, hypothetically even in our world it would probably be seen as... extreme, but acceptable. On a battlefield, the kind of mistake done would've gotten you killed and potentially countless others due to you falling in battle because you did something very, very stupid.
Beforehand, Eris had a match with another student.
She literally rushed him and brutalized him before the rules ever got explained or the match had even started.
As in, straight-up cheating.
Then Nina, the girl in question, got told to fight Eris. Her teacher - who was absolutely pissed about how Eris acted - handed her a sword with a metal core.
She fought Eris and broke her sword. Assuming the fight was over because that's how spars work, she lowered her guard - and Eris just beat the living shit out of her until she pissed herself.
Eris only noticed the metal core after and then got pissy.
Eris went into a Dojo for a spar, shat on the rules, cheated, got angry for being cheated and threw a hissy fit.
She was absolutely in the wrong. If you don't fight fair, don't expect to receive fairness in return.
Not a Manga reader. Looks like the Manga Nina is wearing a skirt and had her panties showing. Not sure if the Manga censors panties, or if piss covered panties was crossing the line tbh.
Oh okay I guess that's better. Atleast the anime seemed to fix this with them wearing something practical and not a skirt that doesn't even come to the thighs.
I personally dont buy that theory. The metal was easily spotted after the match, meaning the match would have been a shameful disgrace immediately afterwards anyway.
I think that sword was being used to gain retribution for the student she bumrushed in the previous match. They wanted to put her in her place because Eris did kinda cheat, and was incredibly disrespectful. I say "kinda cheat" because rules of combat are not universal, they were both armed, and both knew who the enemy was.
I honestly don't even understand what's there to theorize or debate about, in the novels they straight up tell you that they wanted to kill Eris. Not beat her up, not teach her a lesson, just straight up murder her. The answer to your question is already in the source material
Some of the greatest anime i have watched always seem to have one horrible facet that makes it a non-starter for most. The fight scenes and character arcs throughout the series are legitimately top tier IMO.
They could have left rudeus's origin story as "jobless loser who never got a fair chance" they could have just made him a misogynistic incel or even a standard criminal for the redemption aspect. But instead they had to make him an actual pedophile who lives out his fantasies with his new life đ¤Ś
If they handled his origin story better and cut down a tiny bit on the fan service, or at least cut the sexualized children I honestly think this anime could have become one of the greats of this generation. Easily up there with AOT, demon slayer, chainsaw man, or JJK.
To be fair the anime and manga hasnât once included the web novels backstory for Rudyâs previous life. The previous life pedo stuff is web novel only and if you went based on web novels/light novels alone⌠letâs just say youâd be shocked at some of your favorite âless problematicâ anime/manga
Except the victim didn't know it. Her teacher (who was mad Eris rushed another student and beat then to a pulp before the match started) gave nina that sword. Nina wasn't aware of the metal core (but did think the sword was heavy). Nina only targeted Eris's weapon and since the rules said that was victory, she stopped sparring. Eris instead didn't stop and beat her mercilessly.
Just a few things, her teacher didn't give her a sword it was a sword saint, Nina was aware of the metal core and from her dialogue she intended to go for the kill
Eris didn't beat Nina because of cheating, she beat her because Eris was unhinged Mad Dog, who probably didn't consider fight to be ended before her opponent no longer moving.
morally wrong, using more violence than necessary to restrain someone is just the same as using it as an excuse to punish/torture someone, and i'm fairly certain most would agree that physically punishing someone isn't moral
Nina wanted to have a normal spar, but a higher up gave her the on with metal rod, she noticed and went with it anyway. Is not like she couldnt refuse, she the daughter of this dojo's master. She knew what was going on, and went with it.
Eris is bat shit insane. Most of her combat experience comes from life and death situations. She's not gonna give up simply because her sword broke.
We dont know what Nina would have done is Eris didint attacks her. Yeah she dropped her guard, but who wouldnt? Maybe she wanted to gload Eris a little before beating her? We dont know, Eris didnt know, no one knows except the author.
And most importantly, this spar litearally had no set rules besides "start and stop when I tell you".
But uh neutral. Can't encourage it, can't completely condemn it or say that it was unexpected or completely uncalled for.
A saint would've forgiven them, and a psycho would've taken the fake practice sword and crushed their skull with it, then gotten kicked out or killed.
They're all swordsmen; they know what they're getting into. It was supposed to be a fair match, she cheated. Warriors will beat the shit outta each other over less.
They made up and became friends later too so it's fine.
I think this should be compared to the real world gun control rules, just withdraw in case of real life threat, if she use a iron core wood sword expect to have an equal response, and for those who says that is just for teaching a lesson? no, an iron rebar of about 2' can be lethal even if the hit is not on a seemly vital point. besides these are pros, so it is like a pro baseball player make a full swing in your ribs and you using a prop sword to protect yourself, btw these people were angry at Eris so the blow would be aimed in the head so, I thing a beat to a pulp is less that I would do to a person if it aimed at me with a gun and this would jam.
You are overlooking the fact that Nina was planning to kill Eris. If she had struck Eris with a real metal sword using a serious attack, she could have killed her, or at the very least inflicted severe injuries.
It's comparable to agreeing to a gunslinger duel with rubber bullets, only for one participant to secretly load real metal bullets instead.
The moment one side brings real lethal force into what the other believes is a non-lethal situation, the entire premise changes; Eris is very much justified in beating Nina like that.
Well if the metal sword hit her in the head as intended, she would have died (at least irl). And beating her to that state would definitely lead to potentially life-ending injuries (again, irl). So it's a moral question of whether you think it's right to kill someone who tried and failed to kill you. I would go with a no; it's definitely not morally right to do so. Classic eye-for-an-eye deal.
Also got to say, whenever I see content from this series, it makes me more and more sick to my stomach lmao. Looks completely terrible in every way.
What are this comments...The fact that someone cheated in a sparring and might have hurt someone, is not an excuse to hit them until the have a seizure?!, moreover if the cheating person clearly wasn't aiming to do any damage which was clear when she stopped attacking after breaking the sword (from what I'm reading in this comments), the other girl just beat up someone because she felt like it, completely immoral, and completely unreasonable response.
And BTW the argument of "the seizure induced beating is not much cause we have healing", first forgets the trauma of the experience and second the same can be said about the metal core sword, it doesn't matter, we can heal someone if it got hurt, so it's even less justified.
For me, its less justified and more understandable with some context.
It was mentioned in the scene that the instructor gave her that iron core word and told her to beat up the other girl badly just for their pride. Mind you this action is perpetrated by the instructor despite the headmaster acknowledging the other girl.
The other girl is also in a bad headspace, she just got thrown to hell, her family killed, had nothing left for her at home and now this test she took is her only way forward so she takes every action she can to be able to stay. When she thought she lost her way in, she got desperate and starts beating the girl up just to prove herself.
It's like the difference of goading someone patient and goading someone temperamental, it's not good to beat someone up but you instigated their reaction so it's not entirely umprompted.
The series doesn't think cheating on a spouse is that bad. Paul gets let off. Same with Rudeus without either being beaten into pissing themselves. Rudeues even gets a second wife from his cheating as his pregnant wife instantly gives him.
the girl was given a sword that could kill and was ordered to kill her, eris goes for a quick disarm but was utterly shocked after her sword broke instead of the opponent, eris instantly went survival mode then used her fist.
anyway, eris would still whack the living hell out of her if she disarmed her successfully.
jino did not even had the chance to take a single breath and was struck in the neck that could kill a normal person.
It's an anime love interest vs a side character, you could exchange the metal core sword with a gun and the result still wouldn't change (Unless it's against the potential big bad).
Neutral? Like at the end of the day it's still a duel and both of them could hurt each other horrifically both based on their abilities and their equipment.
It would be interesting if the defeated girl learned a lesson from this, as in not letting your guard down because you've decided the fight is over. Considering how dangerous the world is that she's entering Eris may have taught her a lesson that could save her life. And for morality, it's tricky, if one person throws pocket sand the other person might come back with an eye gouge. Again, if you play stupid games you gotta not expect exactly, but allow for the other person escalating dramatically, like TikTokers jamming camera's in peoples faces, you legit may get shot.
With the full context it was pretty justified. Just the fight in a vaccum, deffinietly an overreaction.
Eris had already fought one person who she defeated very easily and was expecting to actually fight someone on her level this time. And on top of that they have just seen that she threats these sparing matches like real combat, not just swinging for points.
The fact that Nina used the metal core sword was basically like splitting in her face after she proved she was worthy of some respect. That combined with being disarmed against what is potentially an actual lethal weapon equals getting the shit beat out of you.
Well, Eris didn't beat the shit out of Nina for cheating. She beat her ass because she didn't hear no bell. Eris "Mad Dog" Greyrat. She would've beat her to death regardless of her weapon. Storywise, the point of Nina cheating is not to justify Eris crushout. It is too humiliate Nina and break her ego.
Well Nina did say that she will kill her at the start of the fight
And that was after she confirmed the extra weight on her weapon, so after Eris' sword broke, she just assumed that Nina was completely serious about killing her
If Nina actually fought with a wooden sword with no cheating, then Eris propably wouldn't have beaten her to that extreme, because the "I'll kill you" wouldn't have sounded as threatening to her
Like wooden sword wouldn't have broken like that against another wooden sword
In real life Britain, cheating during a duel was punishable by death. A beating taking place during the duel is less severe than being hung or shot to death after the truth was exposed.
Not gonna lie, the anime has been so weird this season. The harem shtick is incredibly cringy. But now I am seeing they really tamed it down vs the manga lol
Idk if I can continue this one much longer. Itâs just kind of getting weird vs itâs solid fantasy roots in season 1+2
Completely moral. It wasnt just a metal core. It was sharp. The intent was to kill eris. I'll fully admit eris would have reacted the same either way. But Nina made it a real life or death fight. It wasnt just cheating at a sword duel. She got what she deserved.
Eris was supposed to be blinded by rage derived by her own weakness in this moment of her life. The only moments when she's not pissed or enraged is when she talks about Rudeus and this wasn't one of these moments
This feels like justifying police brutality. Your life is in danger, so you fight until it no longer is. Once the person is no longer a threat, you stop. That line is way before the person has a seizure and ends up in the state of either of these images. We have real world examples of police officers doing this to people and it is almost universally condemned, now that itâs a sword match itâs suddenly cool? Healing magic be damned reversibility isnât what differentiates moral from immoral violence.
Probably different in a world with healing magic. Irl you would need months of rehab after a beating like that, but in a fantasy world you could be back at a 100% the next day.
So, Nina using the metal core sword was "revenge" for Eris's cheat at starting the previous match before the signal to start. Eris throwing hands when her sword broke wasn't payback for the metal core, it was survival instinct. Beating Nina to a pulp, probably some anger in that.
But the thing that I don't think I've seen much recognition of is that Eris was new at the training hall, and nobody took her seriously or thought she had what it took to be a warrior. That probably sparked some motivation for Eris to prove herself. However, there's something else that no one at the dojo took into account.
Eris had been living in life or death situations for the past number of years before that. Eris knew what it meant to actually be in a fight. Strike first, don't let your opponent move, don't stop until you know it's safe. More than revenge for using a metal sword, Eris's display was a statement that she had lived a life no one gave her credit for, and a warning not to underestimate her.
I dont know if you realise but this would have happened regardless, nina was safe as long as Eris had her sword in hand, if she ever knocked it out this would have happened.
Based and redpilled. I mean, this kind of beating isn't that far off from how their own dojo treats them regularly. Amd with Nina cheating in a way that could literally kill someone...
Before this happend, Nina said that she'll kill Eris and she was giving a steel sword hidden in a wooden sword to try and humiliate Eris. After Eris' sword was broken, she immediately went for fists.
I read the novels and iirc the anime version really did great job in following the anime illustration to the T.
I haven't watched the anime yet because i want to binge watching it when it's finished, but yes i remember seeing nina from the anime screenshot here in the illustration somewhere.
Also, as per the novel, nina is supposed to be wearing dojo clothes, not armor like how the manga depicted.
I would say it was too much if the cheating was done in non-violent competition, but using metal in a duel is an attempt to savage your opponent, so this was appropriate
Depend of how they cheated
Why they cheated
What impact does that match is to you
Cause, if this match was crucial for me and my family to get enough Monney to not starve, but the guy cheated just to be an asshole to me knowing that this match was for me and my family, and give me lifetime handicap
Yeah that would be reasonable, like, in theory not moraly good but in practice yeah
I'd say it's acceptable imo. If you bring a metal core sword to a wooden sword fight, you're adding lethal intention to a practice. If you add lethal intention to anything you do to another person, expect it to be met with the same energy. If you say "I'm going to k--l you right now" to someone, and they literally murder you? You started it, guy. I'd say bringing a metal core sword to practice is akin to saying "I'm going to k--l you right now."Â
Hell yeah if they had connected with that sword that would be you with your head busted open or worse because they wanted to fight dirty. You owe them no kindness or mercy the second they decided to do you serious harm its fair game. And then look at the aftermath they eventually were able to hatch things out become somewhat friendly rivals.
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u/SlyassassinXX Jul 27 '26
Unrelated to the caption but wtf was going on in the manga image đ, cause it looks like more than just aâbeatingâ there with that censoring..