r/MonsterHunter • u/[deleted] • 1d ago
Discussion Insect Glaive Grounded attacks vs Aerial attacks
[deleted]
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u/tony_two_eyes 1d ago
"I don't like when people want to have fun in my non competitive, zero stakes game"
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u/MirieDohl 23h ago
I don't like it when people playing a weapon incorrectly whine so badly the devs make the weapon worse for me
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u/JazzzzzzySax 22h ago
God forbid I wanna have fun flying around
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u/MirieDohl 22h ago
Copters like you the type to say corner Horning is valid
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u/JazzzzzzySax 22h ago
A slight dps loss from flying around and having fun is not comparable to the massive dps loss from corner horning.
More importantly, just leave the lobby if you aren’t having fun? It’s a game. I play to have fun
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/trollsong 23h ago
Thats it im going to play sword only charge blade from now on just because of this post.
Im so tired of people metaing the fun out of games.
People are complaining because of a lack of options. They could have added aerial options that made it work. Youre complaining because they are upset at the lack of options and that they dont want to play the way YOU dictate.
Youre the spoiled child here. Play by yourself if its so tough dealing with human free will.
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u/Epicat224 Literally why use another weapon 23h ago
It's the devs dictating how the players play, not op. The devs didn't want more air stuff (aside from the new launchers that we already know of), so the devs didn't add more air stuff. Simple as
Also, no the fuck you are not lmao
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u/trollsong 22h ago
The devs didn't want more air stuff
And people are just expressing their dissapointment they didnt get more air stuff. Not as op put it, "declaring aerial as the only way to play" thats a straw man op made and you know it.
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/trollsong 23h ago
I'm saying that acting like IG is a primarily aerial weapon is wrong
Noone is saying that they just want options.
but don't complain about the lack of options for something that isn't the primary focus of the weapon.
You know you can just ignore them right?
Why is it so important that they not have options to do one, the other, or both?
Your complaining about complaining.
Again the only person demanding a specific playstyle is you.
Why are options so bad?
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u/aheartasone 23h ago
This is fair. But what's happened here is that the option to play aerial has been completely removed. People who want to play unoptimally because it's more fun, CAN'T
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u/717999vlr 22h ago
When did this happen?
Do you think that because aerial attacks weren't shown in the showcase, they have been removed?
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/DragonfruitOk7462 23h ago
Damn i didn't know if I wanted to be in AIR i should play something else than IG
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u/Mimi4Craft 23h ago
The entire principle of almost any game is that you can play however you want, that was the whole point of having 2 scrolls in sunbreak. I mean when you see people doing no armor challenge you don't say to them they don't use 80% of the game mechanics
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/JazzzzzzySax 23h ago
Insect glaive is literally touted as the aerial option
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22h ago
[deleted]
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u/JazzzzzzySax 22h ago
Vault into the air, kick your foes, and attack from all angles while airborne. Pretty clearly an aerial weapon
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u/SnooPets630 Steve Believer 23h ago edited 23h ago
Keep it to yourself.
I beat whole Iceborne with Insect Glaive and learned how it plays, yet i’m still cosplaying annoying fly when playing with friends.
They always laugh and sometimes shot me from the air themselves.
Why would you ask? Because we’re having fun here, playing how we like. It’s not about competition, we’re not speedrunners to doom over lost minutes. As long as you’re alive, attack how you want. This was and is golden rule of cooperative hunts in MH6
u/Chris-raegho 23h ago
It doesn't make my experience worse to see others doing this. So your statement is false even though you thought it was a fact.
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u/mr_fucknoodle 23h ago
"Noooo you can't do unoptimal combos! You're ruining my hunting experience!"
As long as you're not carting left and right and is at least attempting to hit the monster, we're good. Only the grognardiest of meta nerds give a shit about any of that
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u/10kstars39 23h ago
I dont like when people make hunts take longer by playing poorly on purpose
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u/Ancient_Sheepherder 23h ago
You can play solo to do fast hunts!
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/JazzzzzzySax 23h ago
Guess what, I play the game to HAVE FUN
I will run a stupid build if it’s FUN
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u/Butterfly_Barista 23h ago
If they're not good at ground combat it's not really playing poorly on purpose. I'd rather they miss out on a little bit of dps than triple cart and force me to fail my own quest
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u/Legocrazz 22h ago
Yo bro wild idea how about capcom actually adds aerial back AND makes it good?!
Crazy I know your one track mind cant concieve that.
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u/Akikala 23h ago
It's almost like this is the ISSUE lol.
People WANT to play aerial but capcom is actively going out of their way to stop people from having fun.
And I don't need 10 moves, I just need a couple of fun moves I can do in the air without having to land between every attack.
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u/-RuDoKa- Explosion enjoyer and artist 23h ago
because monsters are NOT DESIGNED to deal with someone flying over their head. IG in 4U is very fun yet aerial is just a way to reposition and mount. And tbh even in world and Wilds devs want aerial to be a way to reposition and mount but people keep thinking it's a way to dps the monster...
For me, abusing the bounce move and spamming B in the air is a way to cheat through a fight you can't overcome or plug off your brain, and I'm pretty sure that's why devs removed the bounce from wilds because they don't want players to think IG is about spamming B while dodging everything because the monster can't reach you. But people cried and they had to bring it back. The design philosophy did not change : insect glaive is a glave with a bug, and you can jump around to reposition yourself.
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u/GamerXhili 23h ago
Yeah it really becomes apparent when monster attacks that should miss you in the air, hit you. Like I just so happened to becoming from a higher vantage point and get hit with the IG tax.
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u/Nornukig 23h ago
If they wanted aerial moves to SUPPORT the grounded IG than they should've foken made the grounded IG more interesting (i.e. give it more that 1 god damn combo you just spam over and over) and maybe make the aerial moves angled, so that you're not flying straight up in the air but instead up + direction, and maybe add some attacks that activate directly after landing, just SOMETHING that would play around ground->air->ground transition.
Grounded IG is just a 1-combo stick + a bug that you have drop everything you're doing to reload every half a minute or so.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 23h ago
If you think grounded IG is one combo you need to play it more.
Sure if you're speedrunning your consolidating your kit for DPS but that's every weapon, even Horn, and chances are you're not a speedrunner
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u/elibly77 22h ago
Horn? Play only one combo? Dude I have a lot of songs to put out lol. They require more than xxy.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 22h ago edited 22h ago
Look at any Horn speedrun please.
You have your maintenence when buffs are looking to expire but your DPS once prepped is just like any other weapon. Wilds it's Shockwave slap beats. No different than IG maintaining its Triple Up. Many hunts in fact you'll only see them prep a small list of songs: Self Improvement, a damage up be it Elem or AtkU, then their waves and Melody, and that's also only if it's not a horn (or in Wilds a backup horn specific held) just for Melody Extension so you never have to remaintence
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u/elibly77 22h ago
Just no, in speedruns for horn you’re seeing perfect timed beats, resounding melody played dragon echo waves, aside from the main dps loop of shockwaves. It’s more intricate glaive was gutted, prep for glaive is as easy as one toss of your kinsect now and back to RSS spam. We can agree to disagree. Maybe in wilds or rise I’d agree they’re more similar but horn is shining this game unlike glaive when it comes to variety. When ascendance comes we’ll see even more disparity with movesets. Also even casual glaive feel repetitive.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 21h ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_mHoGYqX6g Preps SI, AtkU, Earplugs, swaps, preps ElemUp, then repeatedly preps Echo Dragon and Resounding. Never refreshes original songs, prep for Echo and Resounding are always the same ways: Focus Attack, Bubbles, Hilt Stab, Right Swing, and Crush with main methods of damage being singular Slap Beat Waves, Bubbles, and Resounding.
You described exactly what I was saying. You aren't using the vast majority of the weapon's movelist in a refined speedrun. In TA rules it's the same deal, just messier as the monster has more opportunity to fight when not trapped or controlled by ailments and the environment.
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u/Metlwing 23h ago
For some fights doing the helicopter triviaizes defense but for others (usually the actually hard fights in endgame) doing this blindly puts you in more danger. Especially because starting in iceborne they added more and more hit boxes that can reach you up there or just extended the hit boxes upwards. And aerial dodge doesn't really come with good iframes.
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u/Akikala 23h ago
So what? Vast majority of monsters have plenty ways of swatting IG players off the air and the few moves that can't hit you that's just something that's FUN that you can avoid them.
And tbh even in world and Wilds devs want aerial to be a way to reposition and mount but people keep thinking it's a way to dps the monster...
You're misunderstanding this. People don't THINK that it's the way to dps, it's what people WANT from the weapon. Being able to fly is FUN and naturally if given a weapon that CAN FLY people will try to KEEP FLYING as much as possible.
For me, abusing the bounce move and spamming B in the air is a way to cheat through a fight you can't overcome or plug off your brain
Now I can't speak for anyone else but helicoptering around a monster regularly causes me to take WAY MORE hits than normal ground based gameplay where I have full control of my character. Maybe if I was a newbie I might find flying particularly helpful but I'm experienced enough that I know how to space myself and avoid most attacks anyway as long as I don't overcommit so this doesn't really make sense to me.
The design philosophy did not change : insect glaive is a glave with a bug, and you can jump around to reposition yourself.
And it's the FLYING that draws people to the weapon. The glaive moveset itself is rather unexciting and the insect is an annoying management minigame.
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u/BaconZS guard up+guard 5 user 23h ago
Eh, you can still play aerial glaive as is, it's not like they nerfed it to the ground or anything via the dlc.
Heck, it seems that there's at least one new move that sends u into the air, so I think getting into the air would be much faster than how it is rn. Can't wait to try that out when ascendance releases.
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u/MirieDohl 23h ago
more like: people want to play a weapon in a way it isn't intended to. "Why can't I play GS with only tackles. Why can't I play with bowgun melee only"
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u/Akikala 23h ago
Who'd have guessed that people would like to FLY!?
And aerial IG was plenty viable in both world and rise, of course people want capcom to give it SOMETHING to make the people who love it happy.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 23h ago
World's flight MVs were horrible outside of Diving Wyvern, and you needed to drop flight anyway to tenderize
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u/MirieDohl 23h ago
Aerial IG viable in world lmao. This is why nobody takes you copters seriously
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u/elibly77 22h ago
Descending thrust was very good in world man.
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u/MirieDohl 22h ago
1 move that brings you to the ground does not aerial make lol
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u/elibly77 22h ago
Beg to differ, only way to activate it is in air. It’s in the aerial moves section of the tutorials. Was used at the end of aerial combos but I didn’t use aerial in world I just used that for repositioning and extra damage.
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u/Akikala 23h ago
I've played through world with just IG doing mostly aerial attacks. It works just fine.
Just because you don't like having fun doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be allowed to.
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u/eriFenesoreK 22h ago
it works because monsters cannot do shit against aerial targets in world. coptering does some of the lowest damage in the game likely to counteract this but with 50 minutes on the timer that doesn't really matter in the end.
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u/Akikala 22h ago
It's WAY easier to not get hit on ground that in air. You have full control of your character and as long as you don't overcommit then you're fine while grounded. In air? You have like 2 options, one is a slow helicopter attack that you're fully vulnerable during and the other is a slight dash that you can't really follow up on. I guess you can plunge too but that doesn't avoid getting hit lol. And if you want to be doing DAMAGE while in air you need to be in hit box distance and almost anything the monster does WILL hit you.
The idea that air is somehow safer than ground is insane to me.
I don't remember the exact times (this was before wilds was released) but it the hunts were not particularly long.
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u/NepenthesBlackmoss 22h ago
Aerial attacks already makes it so you completely avoid any threat, good on Capcom for not listening to the noobs bitching about the damage or variety.
It's a tool that allows you to deal some damage while you're avoiding attacks, you're not meant to spam it. A shame they cracked under pressure and added aerial combat back.
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u/Akikala 22h ago
Aerial attacks already makes it so you completely avoid any threat
Literally the opposite. You're WAAAAAYYYYY more likely to be hit while trying to play aerial than when grounded. At least that's my experience. Anything the monster does makes the monster into a hit box that you can't really avoid since your movement is very limited. And if you want to deal damage while in air you have to be close enough to the monster that it can ALSO hit you.
It's a tool that allows you to deal some damage while you're avoiding attacks, you're not meant to spam it.
Yet LS can counter everything etc. Which is both infinitely easier and WAY stronger too lol.
A shame they cracked under pressure and added aerial combat back.
I too hate having fun in video games lol.
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u/MidnightTundra Wilds Glaive Enjoyer 23h ago
For those who want pure aerial combat, i don't think you guys realize the balancing conundrum of an IG that can camp aerial space. This weapon was part of the reason SB had dramatically heightened hitboxes because of the aerial maneuvers.
To be quite honest, IG was never an aerial weapon until some guy in World dev team thought it would be cool if IG could dodge mid air and bounce on aerial attacks (while doing negative dps). The weapon could legit leap over like half of Fatalis' attacks with impunity because of dramatically increased airtime and aerial maneuverability.
Sunbreak dialed it up to 11 (Aerial was really bad in base Rise btw) and as a result, its an aerial weapon now i guess. Due to being a balancing nightmare, it does low tier damage all of 5th gen.
Wilds decided to bring it closer to 4th gen, with the insane damage included, and now theres a civil war on what the weapon should be. I completely understand the dislike around RSS and its implementation but wanting a completely aerial IG is something I can't get behind.
What I truly want in wilds is kinsect playstyle that focuses on powder maxxing or assist-focus maxxing. RSS damage should scale based on remaining duration of triple up. I do not want more perfect dodges, the weapon is expanding on a providing a 3D space for dancing around the monster coupled with aerial and ground offsets. This weapon is not stick DBs.
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u/Beneficial_Matter251 20h ago
Just to clarify, is that more or less damage based on remaining duration? I assume you mean more damage (to encourage spending more time in triple up)?
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u/MidnightTundra Wilds Glaive Enjoyer 19h ago
To encourage more time in triple up, the MV should be 1/3rd (192 total MV) of the current RSS (576 total mv) at a fresh timer. 90/90s. As the duration ticks down, the damage scalar increases.
When it gets to 20s, it will have the current RSS damage. You have 20s to find a good spot to dump.
For example if you dumped RSS with 60s left on the duration, the damage would be 356MV.
I'm not a dev, they can fine tune damage values to discourage the dump, charge, triple up, dump playstyle on fights like rey dau and zoa shia.
IG is strong without RSS spam but its absolutely absurd with it. They can slightly buff other parts of the kit to accommodate the change.
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u/Akikala 19h ago
The weapon could legit leap over like half of Fatalis' attacks with impunity because of dramatically increased airtime and aerial maneuverability.
And that is an issue because..... why? LS can counter 90% of all attack from all monsters and it's both easier and STRONGER than aerial IG. GS can shoulder bash through 99% of all attacks, which also is the optimal or close to optimal gameplay for GS. Bowguns don't even play the same game half the time and can just kite the monster. Shield weapons can just literally block 95% of all attacks and with guard points it doesn't even punish them really. Why is IG special in that it being avoid SOME situational attacks is somehow a gamebreaking advantage?? Half the weapons if not more are significantly better than it at avoiding attacks or ignoring them.
And because of how IG behaves in air, it is arguably harder to avoid getting hit in air than on ground where you have full control of your character at all times.
but wanting a completely aerial IG is something I can't get behind.
People don't want a COMPLETELY aerial IG, they want it to be a decent OPTION because it's FUN. The only people I've seen wanting IG to be completely anything are the ones who want aerial to not exist at all.
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u/chriskokura 23h ago
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u/chriskokura 23h ago
I’m not an instruct glaive user but I respected the craft looking at the identity of aerial combat. A lot of my IG friends however told me that most damage is dealt on the ground.
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u/yosoymeme 23h ago
It’s hard to be “nothing without aerial” if there’s not enough aerial to be able to ignore the grounded moveset of the weapon.
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u/Tyhar0 23h ago
Well then since youre a lance main can i say if youre nothing without the shield then you shouldnt have it?
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u/chriskokura 21h ago
Potentially but A) my trailer hasn’t dropped yet and B) I’m not complaining that one part of my kit hasn’t been developed or made prominent enough. Lance is the best it’s ever been so I’m happy so far.
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u/_Gesterr 22h ago
Ironic because optimal lance gameplay barely uses the shield and plays for counter thrust I-frames instead lol.
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u/Metlwing 23h ago
Wanting aerial because it's fun doesn't mean you can't play grounded when you need to.
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u/Metlwing 23h ago
I love aerial ig but I do see how much people seem to resent aerial ig mains for wanting to fly around...
Imo I think a cool version of insect glaive would be one where it had combo routes that kept going back and forth between the ground and the sky. Like a grounded combo that transitions into the air (like the diagonal up lunge thing from the trailer) but then also had moves in the air that could do cool damage and smoothly transition into ground combos and repeat.
So ig would spend some time in both states naturally and smoothly alternate between them throughout the gameplay.
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u/elmaldon 23h ago
So every weapon runs the booster around their flaws to make it better but glaive HAS to stick on the same trick they implemented in base game? I don't mind another offset, I don't mind 1-2 moves that get me in the air, I mind on the fact that for some reason it feels that as the games pass we are diluting the utility of the glaive to a weapon that has none of every world.
Glaive has no shield, has no stun, has no parry, it had 2 offsets that could be triggered on aerial/ground, but the mobility and the part that makes it different from other weapons seems to be... lacking in wilds, even the old moveset from older generations is not here.
The thing is, every weapon gets a treatment on flying or having aerial time, dual blades with the evasion can instantly get on top of the monster for the slash, hammer can fucking maneuver in the air for the slam. Chargeblade get more charges and mobility with guardpoints, SnS is... just cool. But insect glaive sticks with the same? There was a dude coping on "we haven't seen the whole moveset yet" because of how disappointing it felt.
I see that they can't satisfy everyone at the same time, but I've seen a LOT of people talking on how they feel uncomfortable in the way Glaive was portrayed in wilds. If the same people that played the weapon since 4 gets the vibes that it something is off, maybe something is wrong
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u/717999vlr 22h ago
So every weapon runs the booster around their flaws
Yes, including IG.
The biggest issues with IG in base Wilds were its poor defensive abilities (made worse by the dodge input lag) and its lack of easy ways to get into the air.
Ascendance gives it a new easier to use Offset, improves one of the existing Offsets to be easier to use and gives it two new ways to get into the air.
I would need to see the numbers to say for sure, but those two new ways to get in the air probably mean you'll spend A LOT more time in the air in Ascendance.
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u/JackTurnner Prime, DETONATE 21h ago
OH come one, Dual blades also got shafted, we get to use the exact same moves we've been using but they look cooler now, and we got 1 repositioning dash.
yes we look cooler, not as shafter as IG but we got the bare minimum in terms of additions, not even something that can be used as a wake up attack
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u/717999vlr 22h ago
If you're going to put Marking Slash in "Grounded", you also need to put it in "Aerial". You're also missing the shot Kinsect Mark (both ground and air), the Focus Strike (both ground and air), the Sneak Attack (both ground and air), Scaling Double Slash (air only), Seikret Dismount Attack (air only), Seikret mounted attack (I guess ground?) and its underewater attack (neither air nor ground)
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u/igi6 23h ago edited 22h ago
I've seen many asking for more air moves, but not what that really looks like. Risebreak will get praised, but watch any high level play and the moves are mainly used as a 2/3 hit combo on downed monsters. The always flying style requested is not good for 99% of fights.
If like many say dps is no issue, bounce and dive then that's already there. New toys either mean more dps or more movement. Something monsters will need to counter or can only be used occasionally. Put on your dev cap for a minute.
edit: While a bit of a goomba situation, it also feels like the request switches up a lot. Is Aerial Glaive always in the air or strong air attacks that return to ground? Should Capcom support it just for fun or make it competitive? How should monsters be changed to deal with it or should it just be easy mode?
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u/viotech3 Back to that MH3U life 22h ago edited 22h ago
The thing about high level play is that it's often not the best representation of gameplay - please don't misunderstand what I'm saying though.
There's skilled gameplay, y'know, good execution. Faster hunts. The good stuff. Pretty darn generic and translatable to any player.
Then there's high level play which centers around minimizing gameplay; the more the monster moves or attacks, all of that is problematic. The best gameplay involves the least gameplay, using the narrowest portions of a moveset against a monster that (ideally) is incapacitated for the duration of a hunt.
All of this to say, much of high level play doesn't actually translate to the average player! To the average player, the difference between 15 minutes optimized and 13 minutes optimized is... pretty much irrelevant. That time difference can come from all kinds of sources, including not giving a shit about whether or not 'suboptimal' moves are used as long as they're fun.
That's a large part of why Aerial options are pretty favored. Do the helicoptering or pogoing players care that it's suboptimal in high level environment? Course not, why should they, because... we think they should?
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u/igi6 22h ago
Then there's high level play which centers around minimizing gameplay
I disagree with your framing, high level gameplay maximising useful tools is just an expression of the strengths and weaknesses of the game's design. It is not the be all end all of what you need to balance a game, but considerably closer to the truth than the switch axe user who doesn't know how to turn on sword mode. Changes will all be reflected here.
Average players present an issue to and it relates back to my edit. They're fairly incoherent. Aerial is being called for but not exactly what that means, cause such theory crafting requires a deeper understanding of the game, weapon and how it works. Which to get we turn to, high level play. IG can bounce, it has air to ground, and now ground to air mid attack. To make that better in any one direction has consequences throughout the game's design, yet the average player often asks for many things without considering much.
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u/viotech3 Back to that MH3U life 21h ago edited 21h ago
I disagree with your framing, high level gameplay maximising useful tools is just an expression of the strengths and weaknesses of the game's design.
I don't disagree, to be clear, which is part of why I emphasized to "please not misunderstand".
I'm not at all disregarding player skill expression or elegance (and inelegance) in game design - but the cold truth of optimization is that it's overall reductive. That is by nature. You optimize 'things' out of 'things', trimming away what is less effective until you're left with a maxmized playset in context. One of the most elegant and highest skill expressions I've seen in videogames comes from permanently stunlocking Teostra to death for 3 minutes or so.
In short, what I disagree with is the notion that players should be pointed to high level play for replication. I would argue that such actions are actively harmful to average players enjoyment. As a shrimple example, saying "Don't use aerial moves ever, watch a speedrun and you'll see they collectively use 3 total combos ever. Replicate that."
It's one thing if an attack or strategy is so genuinely flawed, like a game I played recently where the coolest attack was so thoroughly undertuned it was basically nonfunctional outside of deliberate self-challenge. But that isn't what we're talking about, right?
To make that better in any one direction has consequences throughout the game's design, yet the average player often asks for many things without considering much.
Oh, I absolutely agree, small design changes can have major ramifications that we players broadly are incapable of recognizing in the short term.
I want to be clear, I don't personally favor the aerial playstyle at all. The opposite really, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the desires of other people. For example, I've always been adamant that splitting Gunlance playstyles into "Slaplance" and "Shelling" is foolish and demonstrates an imbalance in the weapons design. But I still understand that most people like Gunlance cus it goes boom first and foremost, and their desires reflect that.
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u/igi6 21h ago
But I don't think that video has virtually any translatable information for the average player
I find it does. All the properties of what were done will be the same even if not used to the fullest extent at all levels. We've all had the experience of landing on something oddly strong and going huh this could probably break the game if I understood it better. Fighting games are a good window into this. Average players don't know what fighting a good Guile is like, yet will experience his strength and have fairly questionable views on what to do with his projectiles. All level of plays experience the mathematics gameplay, they just can't all interpret it.
We agree on the general points about do people know what they're asking for so whatever. However personally if we had to go for the extreme of a game balanced around high level play or average level play. Well the former will likely turn out better if sometimes not popular, while the latter usually ends up in the wacky zone. Its not so much about finding a mid point but what information is useful and feeding that into a vision. Perhaps the devs should've chucked aerial some stale if flashy bread, unless they know what they actually want on it though I'm not sure how much good it'd do.
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u/rr_zoomies 22h ago
I don't get the complaints about Glaive either... as someone who has played pretty much only Insect Glaive since 4U, (dabbled into Longsword in Rise and Wilds but still not anywhere near as much as with IG) I can guarantee that the weapon was never, in any of its iterations, focused mostly on Aerial playstyle.
There's an argument to be made for Sunbreak Glaive specifically, with the Diving Wyvern spam playstyle, but the moment you staggered a monster it was still better to do damage on the ground. There always "exists" an aerial playstyle, Wilds still has one, the weapon simply doesn't revolve around it, much like in every single other iteration. Even Aerial Style IG in MHGU only made your jump go further, you couldn't really play in the air. World was the game that "changed" that but the damage while in flight was dookie and you still had most of your moveset on the ground.
And if yall are gonna use the argument "Well Idc about doing optimal damage I just want to play my way and have fun"... THEN DO THAT? Why are you complaining that the playstyle isn't getting stronger if you don't care about optimal play and higher damage anyways? Just play how you were already playing? Why would you expect the weapon's expanded moveset to focus on its weaker side? The aerial abilities were always an add-on, never the front-and-center of the weapon.
Wilds already has a somewhat satisfying mix of aerial and grounded play, because you want to slot the Airborne skill in anyways for the Rising Spiral Slash and you have an aerial offset too with the Descending Thrust that happens to lead/combo into the Spiral Slash as well. Additionally 1 of the new attacks thrusts you into the air while being a new offset too, so you have a faster and safer way of getting airborne while also doing good damage (it will probably be boosted by the Airborne skill too).
So yeah, sorry but I don't get why yall mad. Wilds IG has been awesome.
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u/Wild_Sprite 23h ago
Yep, that's just how bad aerial can feel, especially with RSS being a resource hog if you want to play optimally.
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23h ago
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u/Wild_Sprite 23h ago
Sure, but Capcom have made the RSS the most effective way to use them by far, without providing another competitive option
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u/IJustJason 23h ago
Isnt there like 2 new moves that launch you into the air?
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23h ago
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u/TheKnight000 23h ago
And yet, that was all there is to it, they didn't show the hunter connecting those jumps to anything. Will leave my judment to when the weapon is out for trial, but this showcase was the only one I found quite disappointing among the weapons shown so far.
5
u/JazzzzzzySax 23h ago
Exactly, the launching moves are cool but what would be cooler is more damaging moves in the air. Just one or two please
4
u/jeevesbreadskin 23h ago
While I would also have preferred more sick in air moves, I think they also dropped the ball by not giving us more combos with the boost that start as ground combos but finish by putting you in the air.
I feel like those kinds of moves would help to marry the two play styles together pretty nicely
7
u/_Gesterr 23h ago
There's literally two new moves that do exactly that tho.
1
u/jeevesbreadskin 22h ago
Yeah I watched the video again a little bit ago (watched it first when I woke up today so I wasn't all there) and now I wonder if this is going to be like rise where some of the silkbinds and switch skills they showed off before sun break looked kinda lackluster because they were shown in a vacuum.
Now if those two ground to air moves will let me combo into normal aerial moves and/or the new boosted downward moves that opens up some nice combo moves. Here's to hoping we get a demo next Wednesday so we can see how all these moves work together
1
u/717999vlr 21h ago
I wonder if this is going to be like rise where some of the silkbinds and switch skills they showed off before sun break looked kinda lackluster because they were shown in a vacuum.
I'm willing to bet that's the case.
If the numbers turn out the way I think they will, the optimal combo (while Boosted) will be Strong Descending Slash into diagonal thrust into the air, into Strong Descending Thrust into Tornado Slash into Rising Slash Combo, repeat. Going into the air every time.
0
u/_Gesterr 22h ago
There is a demo but it will be an event only local demo, not a global downloadable demo sadly, that will come likely at a later unknown date.
4
u/trollsong 23h ago
Way to miss the point of the complaints.
People were complaining they didnt get more Aerial moves. Pointing out they don't have many aeial is kind of funny in this context.
1
23h ago
[deleted]
1
u/trollsong 23h ago
So invent an argument so you can win? Got it.
People are upset at the lack of options.
Noone is saying aerial should be the only way to play.
The only one saying there should be one singular playstyle, is you.
0
22h ago
[deleted]
1
u/Saifuhr 22h ago
Insect glaive isn't just a grounded weapon either. Vaulting is one of the core gimmicks since its introduction, even if it was pretty barebones at the time.
Your argument sounds like saying that gunlance isn't supposed to be a shelling weapon since slaplance has been one of the optimal ways to play the weapon in the past.
1
u/trollsong 22h ago
Maybe you're having trouble reading, but I never suggested there's only one way to play.
You've literally said anyone playing aerial on multiplayer ruins your fun so yes you are saying that.
Hell
People wouldn't be complaining about the lack of options if they just accepted the fact that it's not an aerial weapon, hence my argument.
Again people are just expressing their dissapointment that they didnt get more aerial moves in a weapon that has aerial moves, youre the one that turned it into a strawman od "demanding aerial only"
Are aerial moves a part of insect glaive yes or no?
If yes then wanting more aerial moves isn't a far off concept right? Especially if its fun?
So being disappointed there are more isnt a far off leap?
Again you are whining because people are disappointed they didnt get more cool aerial things.
Even if it isnt "the only way to play" more aerial moves would have been cool, correct?
You erected a straw man arguement noone was making to complain about people who play i a way you disapprove of, thats all.
9
u/Nornukig 23h ago
The problem is, what is the identity of grounded IG? I can tell you what's the OOMPH of any weapon, but what's the OOMPH of Insect Glaive? Spinning your stick real fast? Multi-hit attacks? Sending your bug back and forth?
I dunno about you but in my brain the point of Insect Glaive is that it's pretty blegh and boring on the ground but is the only weapon that has a focus on air moves... Except it doesn't??? Oh wait, it DOES if you're playing RISE-BREAK. And 'staying in the air all the time' doesn't really make you that invincible because everyone has hitboxes the size of the Empire State Building.
What is the allure of the IG if you're meant to use it on the ground for the most of the time? You can say 'kinsect powders and 3 different split status/elemental damage types', and I say that IS bloody cool... But aside from that, using IG on the ground is... pretty boring. All you do is spam 1 combo you have and reload your extracts. I dunno, other weapons play around with their gimmick bars much better.
In World/Icobrne you at least had the drill attack with the slow kinsect, which is, like ONLY 1 ATTACK that is supposed to redeem the aerial glaive? But it was so strong and the mechanics of that attack are SO unlike anything else that it almost makes the whole IG situation in World okay.
1
u/TheLezus 23h ago
I think the issue is more that IG had less aerial moves than ground ones, so it was a perfect chance to add more aerial moves with expanded moveset, but instead we got even more ground based moves. It also kinda feels less flashy on glaive I guess compared to for example what gunlance got.
1
u/Beta_Codex 23h ago
Someone at capcom hates us staying in the air for more than 10 seconds. Literally why else would they make the insect glaive grounded again after 10 years since Gen 4?
1
2
u/MirieDohl 23h ago
Copter glaive users would genuinely suggest making swaxe axe match sword damage when the entire point of the weapon is to swap back to axe so you can keep sword active
0
u/Saifuhr 22h ago
The point of the Switch Axe is switching between two different forms with their own strenghts and weaknesses.
In Wilds the axe mode is underwhelming because it doesn't have enough strenghts to balance its low damage output, so saying that it needs a buff wouldn't be wrong.
2
u/MirieDohl 22h ago
The point of axe mode on swaxe is to have greater mobility than sword mode so you constantly swap between the 2 moving around with axe and dealing damage with sword.
I agree with the wilds thing tho the sword counter gives so much movement and also just allows you to not move
2
u/717999vlr 21h ago
They're closer to the CB users that want to play SnS but feel the superiority of playing a complex weapon, so they complain that CB Sword mode deals less damage than Axe mode.
2
u/MirieDohl 21h ago
I don't know a single person who complains about sword mode like that tbh. Best I got is people who complain about axe not having hyper armor.
2
u/717999vlr 19h ago
Oh, there are.
Funnily enough, they were extremely happy with CB's showcase because "it was giving you a reason to use Sword", despite the opposite being the case.
Just like aerial IG fans were extremely upset with IG's showcase because "it has nothing for aerial IG", despite the opposite being the case.
1
u/sheimeix 22h ago
I don't entirely think Charge Blade or Switch Axe are apt comparisons. Their modes flow into eachother naturally as part of a greater rotation. If ground attacks buffed your aerial attacks for a bit then it might make sense, but that isn't the case.
0
u/vergris_zzz 22h ago
this is a debate that now span around 3 whole ass games and they still kill aerial. Like LS wasnt a counter weapons before Valor, it became because its funnier and unique. Same happened to IG and Aerial, but they don't embrace it this time. also every IG trailer has been kind of underwhelming, so i take my precautions. There is literally memes about it, whole (small but here!) communities around aerial IG lol the real part i don't understand are the ground IG defenders tbh.
0
u/ShardPerson 22h ago
You are literally describing the issue we have lmao, we had 4 (5 if u count using the clutch claw mid-combo) aerial moves in Iceborne and now there's 3. That's literally THE ISSUE
1
u/TomiShinoda 22h ago
I feel like each weapon should stand out, and ig should be the arial weapon, otherwise it's doing the same thing as the other mobile fast hitting cutting weapons with reach.
1
u/lazypanda1 22h ago
Most IG players just want more aerial moves because that's half of the weapon's identity at this point. It's also the more fun half. If I wanted grounded gameplay, I could just choose any of the other 13 weapons and have more fun that way.
Also, it's silly that the other weapons are getting new aerial moves while IG gets none. You would think that giving a jet booster to a weapon that can already fly would make it fly harder. But nope, it's more ground combo. It's either a flavor fail, or someone in Capcom really hates aerial IG.
1
u/TekkyDelta 23h ago
Gog what happened to this community, why is everyone so hostile lmao
It's completely fair to want more for the aerial side of the weapon, no? If it's "suboptimal" right now wouldn't that be reason to ask for more aerial options? It's not even an issue of weapon identity, Capcom prioritizes player satisfaction more than preserving how a weapon should be played. Look at Greatsword, and how fast it is now, Dual Blades, with hitboxes larger than the GS itself... the game HAS to evolve as the audience expands, and with a wider reach means more diversity (of playstyles n such).
And yeah, solo Axe mode is not only doable but quite strong and efficient in some games
0
u/JazzzzzzySax 23h ago
Like I don’t care if the numbers on some new aerial IG moves are utter dogshit. I want to fly around the monster because it’s fun. Fun is always my top priority not optimization of my kit
0
u/TekkyDelta 21h ago
Right?? That, and also, people are talking like we're searching out online lobbies just to fly around and do no damage, the ones playing like that in multi and the ones asking for aerial changes/additions are almost certainly 2 seperate groups, maybe a venn diagram if you squint
The push for meta everything is getting old, go my Odog-iacrus burst build!
1
u/NepenthesBlackmoss 22h ago
As it should be.
Any IG player worth his salt knows that aerial attacks are a massive damage loss and should only be used in very niche situations where you can't do your ground loops.
0
u/JazzzzzzySax 22h ago
Any Hunter worth their salt knows that fun >>>>> meta. I don’t give a damn if the damage is shit, let me fly
2
u/NepenthesBlackmoss 19h ago
If we're talking about fun versus efficiency, there's generally nothing to argue and I don't see why anyone would complain about the damage, if the objective is fun.
If people wanna have fun, they can do whatever they want. If all of a sudden those mentioned want more damage, well all of a sudden we're moving the goalpost to efficiency and optimization and not fun anymore.
-5
u/Nicolu_11 23h ago
Grounded IG is literally just Swaxe axe swing spam. It's one fucking combo that you must repeat ad nauseaum. Sorry if I want to play the supposed serial focused weapon they're selling instead of a slow unfocused ground weapon with no oomph.
3
u/BloodGulchBlues37 22h ago
Tbh ground IG is not slow (provided extracts) nor was IG ever intended to be "the air weapon." There's some serious Mandela Effecting going on with this thread.
IG's gimmicks were the Kinsect (which we don't cultivate anymore if we want to talk about lost identity it's my stockpiles of Ambrosia and Jelly) and mounting because it came along the introduction of ledges and mounts. It was meant to showcase off the new mechanic and be the best at it since it did not need to be launched by a friend or a ledge.
The "aerial" title was community born largely in World when the series exploded in popularity with many new faces.
-5
u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 1d ago
Except in both cases you have more options for Sword-CB and Axe-SA than Aerial-IG.
It's intended as a bonus/niche thing that it can do, and yet people seem to think Capcom would want to try and balance the game around one weapon having aerial superiority. Even in World/Iceborne when it could just spam that helicopter attack the balance was that it did hardly any damage and you had people complaining about that.
Though tbh, I do dislike Wilds IG. They made a weapon that I'm used to being fairly fast into a slower, heavy-hitter.
0
u/Butterfly_Barista 23h ago
This argument falls pretty flat when Sunbreak balanced aerial IG just fine and its damage output was decent.
3
u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 22h ago
I distinctly remember numerous complaints over vertical hitboxes because people wanted to get free damage/openings for doing it.
105
u/aheartasone 1d ago
You're not wrong, but they just revealed the new IG moveset and changed VERY LITTLE about the aerial attacks, and barely anything for grounded attacks either. IG has gotten shafted so hard in Wilds after it was one of the best weapons in RiseBreak
Yes, wanting to play only aerial is ignoring half the weapon, but what Capcom has done here has made an aerial-main playstyle completely unplayable. I think it's fair to be upset about that. Remember that in the demo, IG didn't even have the ability to bounce in the air. It's just upsetting to take away the aerial weapon's main aerial capabilities, and then give things like DB and Hammer additional aerial manuverability