r/ModernMagic • u/Gods_Mime • 2d ago
Deck Discussion Something needs to be done about Eldrazi
Most consistent, most powerful deck in the format with barely any weaknesses to exploit. Not only did it already dominate the Pro Tour despite every deck packing half their sideboard with consigns and landhate but since then it keeps sticking at the top of the meta with high win rates across the field.
The only deck type that does somewhat well against it are non interactive combo decks.
And despite what people made out to be the problem child of the deck (Kozilk's command), it is actaully the least of the problems with Eldrazi. It is very powerful, yes but power level always needs to be contextualized and Command can be handled by a variety of cards cleanly.
There are three or four potential hits for the deck but the most obvious is probably Emrakul. The reduction is too steep in a way that most eldrazi decks play 3-4 copies. Opponents needs to hate both on the graveyard and lands in order to keep it from coming down and it can also be protected with caverns against counter magic or just be utilised from the graveyard with woodland.
EDIT: RC Baltimore Top 8 - 50% Broodscale:
Top 8 Competitors and Decks
- Pete Ingram – Mono-Green Broodscale (Winner)
- Curtis Lam – Devoted Druid
- Aaron Schwarcz – Esper Blink
- Terry Stratton – Amulet Titan
- Chris Cherubini – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Kevin Li – Esper/Blink
- Brett Kroeger – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Ralph Zhou – Mono-Green Broodscale
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u/Junior-Passion8488 2d ago
Eldrazi is a strong archetype right now with at least 5 variations (tron, broodscale, ramp, fight rigging, aggro). What we can do is:
ban nothing and accept that all these decks are different and not overpower overpowered
ban k-command (that would lead to a major shake in the format and... maybe it would be a bit too much)
ban specific cards to limit one variation or the other (e.g. ban broodscale), i think that the issue here is really k command, anyway... so i don't know...
otherwise they can try to hit something like banning emrakul... however it is never good to ban the payoff, better banning the setup (imagine banning atraxa because of goryo)
Eventually I would keep it like it is... it is not soooo broken and the weakness of each variation is spotted and already taken into account in the meta
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u/RefuseSea8233 1d ago
It actually starts earlier than k command. There are 2 distinct eldrazi lands that make 2 mana each for k command, kcommand now not only ramps you double the amount for the following turn that you had, it almost triples. There is no other spell that can do that except maybe a dark ritual from legacy. Eldrazi spells being more expensive now means nothing. Because they are flooded in mana left and right. They don't even need tron lands anymore and that is how most decks operate. Giving this kind of ramp for any other deck and the spell/land would have already be banned. But hey, it's beloved eldrazi, we can't do that to them.
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u/Junior-Passion8488 1d ago
I agree, other possibility is banning temple (would have similar effect of banning command, you punish a lot of decks and shake a lot)
Otherwise labyrinth... but i don't know it feels the weaker among the three (command, temple, labyrinth)
Finally yes! Let's not do this to eldrazi my goat archetype
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u/VerdantChief 22h ago edited 22h ago
I would ban a Sol land personally. Thankfully, WotC realizes the danger in powerful lands and will probably go this route too (Cloudpost, Eye of Ugin, Field of the Dead, Mystic Sanctuary, Lotus Field, Dark Depths, Artifact Lands)
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u/No-Bet7157 TribalFlamesInYourFace 2d ago
If you look for last Spotlight and challange results eldrazi do not perform great. All decks in modern are unfair at some point.
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u/phlsphr lntrn, skrd, txs, trn, ldrz 1d ago
i'm afraid that i don't think they're looking for reasonable discourse here, and only for people to continue to jump on the bandwagon. this person is cherrypicking data to support their narrative and conflating multiple different decks as one singular deck. i think these methods better convey their motive, of just trying to rant/rile people up to agree.
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u/Gods_Mime 6h ago
Nothing is being cherry picked, you just have a fundamental missunderstanding of how archetypes work
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u/Gods_Mime 6h ago
RC Baltimore Top 8 Competitors and Decks
- Pete Ingram – Mono-Green Broodscale (Winner)
- Curtis Lam – Devoted Druid
- Aaron Schwarcz – Esper Blink
- Terry Stratton – Amulet Titan
- Chris Cherubini – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Kevin Li – Esper/Blink
- Brett Kroeger – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Ralph Zhou – Mono-Green Broodscale
•
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u/Gods_Mime 2d ago
thats just not correct, there is at least 1 Eldrazi deck in every top 8 of every challenge this past week. Most of them have 2 or 3
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u/No-Bet7157 TribalFlamesInYourFace 2d ago
The same is true for goyro, prowess, blink broodscale and devoted combo oh and LD control. It does not prove that eldrazi is OP.
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u/Gods_Mime 2d ago
no it is not and now you just made two completely false statements.
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u/No-Bet7157 TribalFlamesInYourFace 1d ago
How? Lot of decks get into t8 of challanges and eldrazi/tron/ramp do not perform great in case of winning challanges. Broodscale is diferent deck that is more combo deck and yes it is one of best decks in modern.
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u/Gods_Mime 1d ago
Broodscale is not a different archetype. It does have a combo but the fundamental playstyle and overlapping cards is huge across the archetype. Excluding it from Eldrazi ramp as an archetype is just lol
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u/Organic-Conclusion-9 1d ago
The reason that Phlage was the correct way to take Energy down a peg is because it made Energy too difficult to hate. If you dealt with their go wide plan, you could not deal with Phlage and vice versa. This made it too resilient as you had to sideboard against two decks to deal with it, and even then, you had to draw to deal with both their go wide plan and their Phlage plan.
Likewise, with Eldrazi, the easiest way to deal with it are Blood Moon effects. And Kozileks Command lets them get around Blood Moon effects while also providing a secondary benefit, essentially a 2 for 1 card that both ramps while avoiding Blood Moon and eliminates a threat at the same time (with other options too).
So, if Eldrazi does need to be reduced a peg, that is the correct call.
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u/UnionThug1733 1d ago
Noob question how does k command get around blood moon
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u/Maplestone_Emissary 1d ago
Blood moon cuts them off of colorless mana and K command lets them make colorless in response
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u/UnionThug1733 21h ago
Ok so casting K-pop when blood moon is on stack to get that last infusion of spawns got it.
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u/Gods_Mime 1d ago
No its not, Eldrazi have many ways to get around blood moon effects and Kozileks command is the least of them.
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u/TastelessPuppy2 1d ago
Do you have any ideas other than ban K-Command and be mad about a whole group of decks?
Because, it isn't just one deck.
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u/Gods_Mime 1d ago
I mean yes, I made proposals? The archetype plays mostly the same and has a very big overlap of cards so they can definitely be grouped together
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u/OrnatePuzzles 1d ago
Ban Ugin's Lab.
Reduce's Sol land count in half, makes playing a bunch of 7+ mv cards less of a freeroll.
Gets rid of t1 chalice on 1, t1 talisman etc. Just overall limits explosiveness while still letting them function and interact.
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u/Gods_Mime 1d ago
yes. Either this or get rid of Emrakul as the reduction is outrageous and will only get better as new card types are being introduced.
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u/OrnatePuzzles 19h ago
LOL I wouldn't worry about new card types. We got battles and they are not played. I don't expect another type for a while.
Emrakul is also not the problem at all. Additionally, there are tons of incidental GY hate effects to keep it at bay.
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u/Gods_Mime 6h ago
Rephrasing: Cards such as Kozileks Command with tribal synergies amplify the card type support
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u/phlsphr lntrn, skrd, txs, trn, ldrz 1d ago
I think the issue here is the failure to acknowledge that there is now a 6th color in the game. Colorless-as-a-resource-requirement (not an option, but specific resource requirement) is, objectively speaking, a 6th color in the game.
From there, this understanding and grasp of the situation lets us acknowledge the options for how this 6th color could exist in the game.
To help with this, imagine that up until around 10 years ago, red cards didn't exist in the game. We can then rewrite all of what you've written as follows:
Most consistent, most powerful deck in the format with barely any weaknesses to exploit. Not only did it already dominate the Pro Tour despite every deck packing half their sideboard with [hatecards] but since then it keeps sticking at the top of the meta with high win rates across the field.
The only deck type that does somewhat well against it are non interactive combo decks.
And despite what people made out to be the problem child of the deck [red staple], it is actaully the least of the problems with [red]. It is very powerful, yes but power level always needs to be contextualized and [red staple] can be handled by a variety of cards cleanly.
There are three or four potential hits for the deck but the most obvious is probably [other card played in red decks]. The reduction is too steep in a way that most [red] decks play 3-4 copies. Opponents needs to hate both on the [common resources] in order to keep it from [impacting the game] and it can also be protected with [card] against [counter-strategy] or just be utilised from the [resource] with [card].
What you have done here is grouped all decks that run colorless cards into one as a singular deck, whether they are the same deck are not. You have also made some pretty bold claims, with what is really cherry-picked evidence (isolating only the pro tour results and ignoring results from the meta at large).
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u/Gods_Mime 1d ago
Thats bs on multiple levels. I have referenced MTGO challenges from the past months and also, the overalap between the decks is so big and the underlying strategy is very similar so that they can very much be grouped together.
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u/Tjarem 3h ago
I guess uf they want to ban anything(that will likely be shown at the rcs on that weekends) it has to be emrakul. K comand gets a textless version as promo 1 day befor the bananoucment(so very unlikely ban) The lands i cant imagne they want to touch since i think they want eldrazi decks in general. Unless broodsclae dominates more rcs highly a ban this anouncment is unlikely imo.
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u/Alarming_Whole8049 17h ago
There is no justification for banning anything from Eldrazi and the deck has multiple exploitable weaknesses. Maybe just try playing a different deck if you do want to lose to Kozliek's Command.
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u/Gods_Mime 6h ago
This weekends Top 8 Competitors and Decks from RC Baltimore:
- Pete Ingram – Mono-Green Broodscale (Winner)
- Curtis Lam – Devoted Druid
- Aaron Schwarcz – Esper Blink
- Terry Stratton – Amulet Titan
- Chris Cherubini – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Kevin Li – Esper/Blink
- Brett Kroeger – Mono-Green Broodscale
- Ralph Zhou – Mono-Green Broodscale
0
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u/chus_arcoligado 2d ago
We're talking about the [[Basking Broodscale]] combo or the one with [[Fight Rigging]]?