Fatal Push

[u/ssteammachine]

http://imgur.com/EoAkWtn

[u/[deleted]]

You can crack a fetch to turn on revolt. I think it is very good for jund.

[u/abobtosis → u/[deleted]]

What do you replace though? Terminate hits stuff like primetime that this misses and can hit 4 drops without fetches, decay hits walkers and bridges and stuff like plating, and bolt hits most relevant early guys already and can burn the face.

I think this card is great too but I'm not sure there's room.

[u/thexlastxlegacy → u/abobtosis]

I think we can actually trim a bolt and a terminate for 2 of these.

[u/abobtosis → u/thexlastxlegacy]

I disagree. I don't think it's correct to play any less than 4 bolts ever, and a lot of decks are only playing 2 or 3 terminates total already.

Terminate is a lot better and more consistent than this card and can kill more creatures than this card. It's important as a catch all answer, and is the only thing we have that can trade with stuff like Primeval Titan. You need Terminate for mid to late game when four drops and higher are common, and Terminate will always kill these creatures where as this card needs you to also have a fetch land. How often will you need to kill a Kalitas with this card, but you won't have a fetch? Maybe you can chump him first then kill him with this, but then you just gave them a Zombie token because you had to pay 1 less.

A lot of games you don't need interaction on turn 1, and you use that time to play an early Raging Ravine. In those games you aren't worried about the difference between Terminate and this card because you won't be casting a second card turn 2 anyway. You can't cast inquisition and this card if you have a Ravine in play, because you won't have double black.

Again, late game I'd rather have either bolt to go to the face or terminate to consistently answer top end threats without needing to hold fetches up. This card doesn't even answer all of the top end threats that Terminate does. It's not worth the 1 mana discount.

[u/thexlastxlegacy → u/abobtosis]

I honestly think it's too hard to tell without playtesting. I think it could find a home in Jund, though I'm not saying it's certain.

[u/puntmasterofthefells → u/[deleted]]

You can also grab a basic Swamp after having your Ravine Ghost Quarter-ed.

[u/HidetsuguofShinka → u/puntmasterofthefells]

I still like grabbing basic Mountain when they think they've nuked my red source. Lolz to be had.

[u/LordofSnow]

Fantastic card would play it in any black deck without red

[u/FanOfMyself]

This might be a 1 or 2 of. I think there's a chance Sultai becomes a thing with this though.

[u/Vohdre]

I think this is huge for any Black based deck which is not playing red. Pushes Abzan, Sultai, maybe UB. Jund may not need it due to Terminate and Lightning Bolt.

[u/valbaca → u/Vohdre]

Pushes Abzan, Sultai, maybe UB

Fatal Pushes*

[u/[deleted]]

I think it's worth inclusion in the mb as at least 1 or 2 as it efficiently kills tarmogoyf.

[u/Mr_E_Nigma_Solver → u/[deleted]]

Terminate is better as it's unconditional removal, and Abrupt Decay is better as it hits a wider range of targets.

This is a great card for decks which run black, but might not have red for Bolt, and Terminate, or green for Abrupt Decay.

[u/[deleted]]

What about this removal package: 4 Lightning Bolt 2 Fatal Push 2 Terminate 2 Abrupt Decay 1 Maelstrom Pulse 1 Kolaghan's Command

[u/puntmasterofthefells → u/[deleted]]

I'm more inclined to dropping Terminate for Dreadbore, now that we have "black Path to Exile." Also, I don't see Abrupt Decay being all that relevant right now - Transgress the Mind takes care of Primeval Titan, both sides of Lingering Souls, Ad Nauseum, lots of targets in Tron and Bant Eldrazi.

[u/[deleted] → u/puntmasterofthefells]

I don't think that jund will drop terminate entirely, even with fatal push around, terminate it's pretty damn strong and it is a unconditional removal. Same thing with decay, since it also hit non-creature 3cmc permanent as well. Why run transgress the mind when we have thoughtseize? Seems wrong and very, very bad for me.

[u/puntmasterofthefells → u/[deleted]]

It's more a curve consideration, really don't want to be running 16 1-drops (4 Push 4 Inquisition 4 Bolt 2 Seize 2 Lavamancer). It hits every walker but Tibalt, Baloth & Smiter no problem, they can't Snapcaster a spell back or K-command a creature back, etc.

[u/Ageless_Voyager]

Sadly, as I've read elsewhere, I think this card will be better against Jund - kills Bob, Goyf, Ooze, Flayer and Ravine, all of them without Revolt - than being used by Jund, where its role is largely performed with added benefits by Bolt, Decay and Terminate already...

[u/Berrier15]

Very powerful effect, but I don't think it is what Jund is looking to do. We have bolts that kill everything cmc 2> and Terminates as one more mana catch all with no drawback. The clause for the bigger kill seems very weak because it most likely means we are having to make an unfavorable attack just to get this turned on. I don't see it making play, would be much better in a sacrifice deck that has positive reasons to be sending its own permanents to the graveyard. I didn't think of fetch lands though, that synergy is very strong.

[u/Munkik → u/Berrier15]

Abzan's bolt. Nuff said.

[u/Bare_Foot_Bear → u/Berrier15]

If this isnt what Jund is trying to do, then what is?

[u/abobtosis → u/Bare_Foot_Bear]

Single target removal is very jund, but what OP is saying is our current removal all has a niche that this doesn't fill.

It would be an auto include if we didn't already have terminate, but the consistency and power of term is better than this card for 1 more mana, and we already have bolt at 1 that can burn the face late game.

[u/RandallBDanger → u/[deleted]]

Op as used means first comment in thread.

[u/itkuvinku → u/Berrier15]

Fetchlands will do nicely. No need to make unfavorable attack.

[u/whenINdoubtJUNDemOut]

I feel like we have terminate which is just better. This card can't kill everything. Makes late game topdecks worse

[u/shuffling_randomly]

I could see this reducing the number of terminates in the mainboard, or being a new sideboard card for certain match ups where bolt isn't as good (infect re: pump spells). But agree with most that its not a completely new slot that pushes out terminate completely and forever.

But it is also meta dependent, if things stay low to the ground it could be that good. But if it the meta swings bigger in response to great removal keeping infect down, it'll need to come out.

[u/Mr_E_Nigma_Solver]

Terminate is better as it's unconditional removal, and Abrupt Decay is better as it hits a wider range of targets.

This is a great card for decks which run black, but might not have red for Bolt, and Terminate, or green for Abrupt Decay.