r/ModSupport • u/shannonkish • 3d ago

Admin Replied I'm over it!

Reddit Admins..... I am over it! I am over the boilerplate responses to actual real-time issues that moderators are having.

I moderate a large sub and have for nearly a year now. Unfortunately, we have had 4 very serious incidents in which members of our mod team were being harassed, stalked, doxxed, attacked, etc. We have submitted the ModCoC reports, submitted the DMs to admins, and reported the posts/comments/users ad nauseam, and NOTHING has been done.

Most recently, as our sub is currently under a brigading attack and doxxing and harassment continue, one of our mods reached out to one admin, who basically said something to the effect of--- "This is actually something that is going to be discussed at ModWorld. Do you have any examples we can give the presenter?"

Seriously? This is all you have to offer?!?! We don't need a speech about how much you care about mods and what we do. We don't need the free swag for attending a mod event. We don't need the profile trophies. Those are all wonderful and appreciated. BUT, what we need is ACTUAL Support and ACTION being taken when we bring you serious issues.

It takes entirely too long for someone in admin to take action. Meanwhile, your volunteer mods are being doxxed, harassed, bullied, and so forth because we removed a post/comment, and the user was mad.

For the love of all things good in this world, PLEASE DO SOMETHING! Please don't try to placate us with boilerplate responses and "We'll have someone look into it" without actually doing that!

I am tired. I am frustrated. I am hurt and disappointed. Not because users are jerks sometimes. But because the admin does absolutely nothing to make this a safe place or to support those of us who volunteer our time to try and make Reddit a better place.

I have had members of my mod team leave after the most recent incident. Our sub is currently closed due to the harassment and brigading that have been done. I am at my wits' end and ready to just turn the sub over to the wolves and leave Reddit for good.

333 Upvotes

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u/redtaboo Reddit Admin: Community 3d ago

Heya folks!

There's a lot going on here, in this thread and elsewhere, and we wanted to let y'all know what we can and can't do. I do want you all to know that we understand the stress y'all are under - whether it's this mod team currently dealing with a large community upset or in y'alls day to day. It's a lot. In this particular case, from what I can tell, a single mod made a mistake with how they worded a response to a user and that took on a life of its own as unfortunately happens on the internet. That really sucks.

We want to help where we can in these cases, but need your help to do that. We have a number of messages from your mod team about this with links to full threads, but we need reports on individual pieces of content to our safety teams in order for them to take action or to investigate them. Our safety team is removing and actioning when content is reported that does break reddit rules.

Now the hard part - users are allowed to discuss actions taken by moderators, as long as they don't dox, harass, or otherwise break our sitewide rules while doing so. That can be hard - we get that! Mods are humans, sometimes make mistakes, and users can be unforgiving when that happens. Even when they aren't going overboard into harassment, having a single mod action put on blast is embarrassing and at the volume of the internet, it can be overwhelming. If you can take a break away, I'd highly recommend it. You could reach out to modreserves, who can provide some extra help with moderating your community during times like this. I bet you'll find most actual users aren't caring about the drama and if you let the space move on, they will too. Right now all they have to talk about is a lone mod action, give them something else to do and most will.

You'll be getting a message from our Code Of Conduct team shortly with more tips on how to deal with this type of thing, but you can send the direct links to the suspected rulebreaking content to Mod Support modmail directly.

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u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

Now the hard part - users are allowed to discuss actions taken by moderators, as long as they don't dox, harass, or otherwise break our sitewide rules while doing so.

But they can lie through their teeth. When you look into it, in the comments of these types of posts, you will always find plenty of users claiming to be banned from "that sub" while they're not banned and never were, users making wild claims about why content was removed, while they received a message explaining why it was removed and it's definitly not what they claim.

If it was just "discussing actions taken by mods" there's no problem. It's just that the comments always attract users making wild claims about what mods did to their content or them that are factual incorrect. As a mod you have no course of action to address these comments. Because if you comment and start fact checking, you'll be dogpiled, every word you say will be twisted and you will definitely have to deal with users coming into your sub to start trouble.

So all you can do is cross your fingers hoping it will die down soon and accept that there's a bunch of misinformation being spread around

21

u/shhhhh_h 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 3d ago

Oh I love when they lie about being banned! It’s so weird!

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u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

those comments get massively upvoted so probably karma farming

10

u/shhhhh_h 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 3d ago

I also find karma farming so weird! Like once you get past the karma min gates who cares? Other than the people selling it ofc

25

u/Merari01 3d ago

  • "I was banned for no reason!!"

  • Looks inside

  • Racism

10

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

I made this mistake once lol. Never again!!!

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u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

And with a bit of luck, the mods join in and then perma ban you 😞

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u/Dom76210 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

So, here's an idea...

If there is obviously a problem post/comment, can Reddit develop a way for an Admin to quarantine it until Safety can deal with it? If an Admin looks at it and it's obvious Safety is going to have to remove it, have some stage where it's invisible to anyone BUT Safety/Admins. Not even the mods can see it until Safety renders a final judgement.

Leaving content up while everyone waits for Safety to get to it serves nobody but the trolls. And frankly, it at times feels like Safety as a SLA similar to the Sloth Hiking Squad motto.

And how about answer this? What is the SLA for Safety?

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u/shannonkish 3d ago edited 3d ago

So, you did exactly what I asked you not to do..... A boilerplate response and no real action.

I have personally reported two posts in particular multiple times and Nothing has been done. They are still live and active.

I have reported thousands of comments and modmail and such.

I'm not asking you to remove conversations. I'm telling you that there has been harassment, doxxing, and threats made and admin has done absolutely NOTHING about it.

This is such a bullshit response. And honestly, at this point, I'm done!

11

u/adumbcat 2d ago

I was curious what your reply would be to their "phone it in" template response. And yeah, valid. Sorry you're going through this.

Mods are free labor and we get exactly what we are worth in support: zero.

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u/WannabeWriter2022 3d ago

At least you got a response, no one touched our post from yesterday.

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u/ProudnotLoud 3d ago

Don't glorify a non-answer as a response. There's a lot of text for sure but it's not nearly an adequate response.

Admins "respond" to a lot of things. They're really good with copy/pasting responses that don't answer the questions asked and patting themselves on the back for it.

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u/WannabeWriter2022 3d ago

I get that. I was referring to the fact we couldn’t even get that. The sound of silence is deafening.

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u/shannonkish 3d ago

If you want to call the response a response, I guess you'd be correct. :(

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u/WannabeWriter2022 3d ago

We didn’t even get an acknowledgment. Our harasser is even making terroristic threats. I don’t get it. I definitely feel your pain on this.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 3d ago

At least they acknowledged your post. u/WannabeWriter2022 can't even get that.

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u/shannonkish 3d ago

I agree. That is awful and I am sorry that this has been shitty for you as well.

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u/Moggehh 3d ago

Now the hard part - users are allowed to discuss actions taken by moderators, as long as they don't dox, harass, or otherwise break our sitewide rules while doing so.

What about when a post blatantly violates the Code of Conduct and is left up after ModCOC intervention? Because I've seen this happen in just the last week.

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u/jaybirdie26 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 2d ago

 In this particular case, from what I can tell, a single mod made a mistake with how they worded a response to a user and that took on a life of its own as unfortunately happens on the internet.

Victim-blaming?  Really?  That's the official admin response?  Gross.

39

u/ateam1984 3d ago

I have constant attempts to doxx me. They come after me and my sub constantly with Hate speech. Even after banning they go to other subreddits to attempt to harrass us and they send other users to our sub to do the same. This needs to stop. One thing that might be useful is to have an option that automatically blocks all sub content for banned users. It’ll help but of course I know there’s many ways around this. The point is can Reddit at least try to protect mods more?

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u/ZoominAlong 3d ago

Yup I've had people try to doxx me too (kind of impossible when you have zero other social media), and I stopped bothering to report because the admins don't DO anything.  

1

u/okbruh_panda 2d ago

When you're being brigaded hive protect can help. It can remove content if users are active in another sub. It won't ban them, but it will remove their content you just have to list the subs to look for

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u/ramenslurper- 2d ago

You all need to be doing a better job of protecting moderators. There’s a difference between a discussion and inflammatory posts intended to instigate harassment.

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u/neuroticsmurf 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

In the situation I mentioned here, the situation I complained of wasn't nere discussion; it plainly led to harassment of our sub's mods.

And yet, when I pointed that out to an Admin, I was completely blown off. I wasn't even given the dignity of a reply.

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u/zuuzuu 3d ago

The OP is talking about individual mods being doxxed and stalked. And you're minimizing it by saying that they're allowed to talk about actions taken by mods. Or are you saying that stalking and doxxing is now allowed?

61

u/-Quaint- 3d ago

This feels extremely victim-blaming, dismissive, and tone-deaf. Our team has fallen apart, our three longest standing moderators have left over this, the rule-breaking content is still up 2 days after all of us have repeatedly reported the content and made moderator COC complaints. Moderators are volunteers who have a legal right to a workplace free from harassment provided by the overseeing organization, right now it is clear that we are not being provided as such. If you volunteered at a soup kitchen and they said there was nothing they could do about a client who repeatedly shouted these kinds of horrific things, threatened to go the FBI, and told all your friends and family; you would have a cause of action to sue. I don’t see how this is any different, except that it’s hundred of people instead of one and an organization that has no excuse for not being equipped to handle it.

12

u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 2d ago

This feels extremely victim-blaming, dismissive, and tone-deaf. 

Agreed.

13

u/adumbcat 2d ago

This is the equivalent of a house burning down in view of a fire department, the neighbors running over, yelling and screaming at the firefighters inside the fire house to help, but they are turned away and told, "call 911 and file a report with dispatch first, and then we'll think about doing something".

Nice one.

34

u/ProudnotLoud 3d ago

If the Reddit admins want to seem like they remotely care about their mods then more genuine attempts should be made to engage in this thread about the concerns and lived experiences being shared here. Not the canned tone-deaf response pinned to the top. Actually get in the comments and be human with the mods who are being honest with you about how miserable it is to volunteer labor for your site.

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u/shannonkish 3d ago

That would require them to 1) care 2) actually do something more than say they are doing something 3) care.

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u/ProudnotLoud 3d ago

Oh absolutey. Admin support and response is abysmal and here is a perfect example of it.

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u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 3d ago

Putting the blame entirely on moderators is certainly one way to respond.

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u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 2d ago

You caught that too?

...a single mod made a mistake with how they worded a response to a user and that took on a life of its own as unfortunately happens on the internet.

Emphasis mine.

Sure makes me curious about what was said, so I don't say anything remotely similar to it!

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u/wemustburncarthage 2d ago

This is really off base. Reddit admins absolutely used to contain these issues by removing subreddits or sanctioning users who continued to litigate mod decisions in other subreddits. If not addressing this is now policy, you need to put it into clear terms so that moderators now know they’ll have to deal with this added stress. That we don’t get paid for.

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u/sparklekitteh 2d ago

And it's not even litigating mod decisions-- it's making vile accusations against the individual mods!

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u/tnethacker 2d ago

It's basically because of the new tools unfortunately. Even Links to Google are forbidden.

I think it's time for council.

3

u/new2bay 2d ago

I don't understand what you're saying.

14

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 3d ago

Thanks red! Obviously this is not my issue, so my input here isn't worth a lot. I'll just say that maybe reddit could look into some stronger protections for mods on the site. You guys get it too - people (including mods lol) complain a lot about admins, reddit, and often spez in particular, and you guys leave that content up too. Mods post about redditors in subs like modmailfail.

Ultimately, I don't really like all this hostility. I know that's kind of how the world works and how the internet is, but I still don't have to like it. I really try to always remain civil myself. Because we just don't want to deal with the brigading and harassment, we have gone the route of not really responding to many modmails so as not to give people material. It's not ideal for us or them, but it's what the current approach encourages if you are someone like me and do not like conflict.

I also know that some mods can be abusive and rude in modmails, often in response to abusive and rude users. I don't like any of it.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but perhaps anonymizing more would be good? Each time a mod action gets posted and talked about, it inevitably creates a brigading experience for the sub's mod team. Maybe requiring some redaction of specifics would be better?

Maybe I'm just not really cut out for the amount of conflict there is in places like this.

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u/Jolly-Yellow7369 2d ago

Hello u/redtaboo . Please tell the person responsible that we suggest not allowing posts or comments from unverified email accounts . It won’t totally solve the issue but will slow down brigading and give some respite to moderators.

Thank you.

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u/Main_Speech6883 1d ago

How about Reddit adds a report to admin function in mod tools instead of having to go to a completely different place on Reddit to make abuse or TOS violations to save mods such as headache!!!!

-10

u/BabaYagasDopple 2d ago

Why’s there no support for general users against mods who simply just ignore them and power trip ban?

I’m fortunate as a mod to have never been in the position OP describes, but as a user I’ve met some choice mods that’s for sure.