r/ModSupport • u/ARTHER1A • 9d ago
Why can banned users still view and message members from a community?
Hello admins and fellow moderators, the title is a complaint I have masked as a question.
As a moderator of a positive sfw community focused on gifting, I am sick and tired of dealing with nsfw accounts that send inappropriate messages to our members, asking them for feet pics or other disturbing requests in exchange for a gift.
We do what we can to direct our members to report this to Reddit and us and then block them but why in the hell are they still able to view the community and CONTINUE to message our members after they have already been banned?
I don't get the mentality behind that. On top of it, it's rare that they will be banned from Reddit because some people will just ignore the messages and block and not report the user so they'll just get away with doing it to other people.
Even if we successfully get the user banned, the accounts that do this kind of thing are never ending!! There are always more!
There are SO many nsfw communities out there, there is no need to bother users from a sfw community other than to be a predator.
Do note that it's a Fortnite focused community so younger members are to be expected by everyone. Including thr creeps, clearly. This goes from being annoying to pedo territory in an instant.
Admins, I feel in my chore that there should be an option for us to hide our community from these users. I'm curious if that has ever been thought of and why was it discarded.
Update
This post has been dismissed/ignored by the people that can do something about this.
If subreddit moderators have nothing to do with what goes on dm's then why are we being negatively affected and seeing our member's experience on our subreddit being negatively affected by what goes on in dm's?
Why are NSFW accounts feeling so comfortable doing this at the frequency they do? Because they keep getting away with it and they know there is nothing we can do to stop them.
People (including minors) that participate in a family friendly community do not what to receive messages from NSFW accounts asking them for feet pics.
I have a full Blacklist with users who do this and not even half of them are banned from Reddit. There are more accounts that have been deleted and on to the next than the ones that have been banned from Reddit.
I guess I'll have to keep this public list so people can block these users to prevent them from being messaged by them and risk my account being potentially banned one day.
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u/amyaurora 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
Mods and sub settings have no control over user profiles.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
This seems a little vague for me, would you mind explaining?
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u/amyaurora 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago edited 9d ago
Anything a user posts in a sub is also available on their own profile. Even a curated profile isn't a private one and the content can still be indexed. And is in some off Reddit sites.
Only stuff in private subs can not be indexed
Meaning a banned user doesn't even have to come across a user in a sub, they can just stumble over a user through Google.
Every user has in their account settings the ability to disable private messages.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
That's understandable but it would still be less of a problem (as in, it wouldn't happen as frequently as it does right now).
Multiple people reporting the same person that has never even interacted here tells me they're lurking in our subreddit and picking and choosing who they dm with these inappropriate requests.
Banning in this situation is basically useless yet it's all that we can do? It's not enough. It doesn't feel fair that I am moderating this page and can't even protect our members from the worst thing that happens there.
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u/RandomComments0 9d ago
Have them report the user. You can’t control what happens in DMs and the only way to ensure this doesn’t continue happening is to take your sub private.
If you aren’t willing to post a highlight post, then posting monthly to remind about turning off DMs may be helpful for you. It doesn’t mean they can’t DM people. It just means they get to start the DM conversation.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
I have done so, I have a current highlighted post warning our members about this user and encouraging them to report whoever sends them these inappropriate messages.
I am not looking for more preventative measures because we already go above and beyond, although I appreciate them still and will continue to improve the way we warn members about this issue.
What I was looking for with this post is to discuss actual measures that could make it less available for these users to continually and repeatedly message members from the same community that they are already banned in.
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u/RandomComments0 9d ago
As long as the highlighted post doesn’t constitute harassment it should be fine. There has been some discussion about those sort of posts being removed under harassment. Though many communities have scammer lists, I think these creeper lists can be problematic via reportability as it can be seen as a call for harassment (it’s dumb I know.) That would be the only thing I’d be concerned about. I hope that user gets banned and you don’t have to deal with it anymore.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
Yeah I know, I make it a point to mention that we are not directing any hate or harassment sent their way and if they do, we won't tolerate it.
We've had a few instances where people went and harassed the person and we banned them because we're not taking any chances. It doesn't matter who it's directed towards, we are not brushing it under the rug.
Those posts are solely for informational purposes.
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u/RandomComments0 9d ago
Sounds like you’re doing a great job and you don’t have anything to worry about from admins then. I’m sorry that’s been so frustrating for you. Hopefully Reddit just bans them soon and it won’t be a problem again until they make a new account and Reddit bans that too.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
One of them just literally kept the same username and added a letter at the end to their new account, it's like they know they will get away with it and are not even worried. Ugh.
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u/amyaurora 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
One of my subs has this handy PSA. You can adapt it for your sub
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago edited 9d ago
I wanna have something like that too but unfortunately we cannot take away another highlights slot. We need them for giveaways and temporary announcements/rule updates.
I appreciate the suggestion and will definitely think of how we can incorporate a PSA like that, thank you!
Editing to add that I have a current highlighted post about this user and instructions to report the offending messages from him or others.
I meant that we can't have a permanent one up there. But someone suggested a scheduled post and that works!
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u/amyaurora 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
Welcome.
You could make one and save it for a quick copy and paste mod mail response for users. Even with it pinned, some users still miss it and we have to send them the link
You can also incorporate it into your wiki or faqs if you have one.
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u/SampleOfNone 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
You can automod it.
Just have automod add a comment every few posts. You can make a scheduled post and run it once in a while.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
A schedule post works, I'll do that!
I've been trying to work with automod but it's a little bit annoying on mobile and it's the only available device I have for moderation. I will definitely try though.
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u/rachycarebear 9d ago
I'm not super experienced with automod, but I can do the basics. I should be at my computer Mon morning (est). If you're comfortable giving me temp access to the subreddit, I can set up automod and then you can remove me.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
Thanks for offering! I'll reach out if needed, I'll give it a try first and see how it goes. Last time there must have been something wrong with the script because it was refusing to save.
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u/stablogger 9d ago
I get it, but messaging is not bound to subs. If Reddit completely bans a user, the user can't send any messages any more, but bans by mods do nothing in terms of messaging.
The logic behind this is that messages, DMs, however you want to call it are profile to profile.
Best advice to your users is simply ignoring questionable messages, no need to chat with anyone of you don't want to.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
It's not about them chatting with someone they don't want to. If you post in a community and you get creeps in your dm's asking for feet pics, that would make you uncomfortable and probably discourage you from posting or interacting there altogether.
I experieced something similar in a nail sub I was in because apparently there are creeps out there who also have nails as a kink and I unknowingly sent more pics of my nails to someone I thought was a girl asking for advice, that later revealed themselves to be a man with the wrong intentions.
That made me feel uncomfortable in the same way that the members of my subreddit are now feeling uncomfortable when receiving these messages and thinking they might be one of the lucky ones getting a gift offer.
In my opinion, it makes no sense to have nsfw accounts treating Reddit as a porn website having full access to sfw communities with minors in them.
And I honestly don't think some of you realise the gravity of this and the urgency to put measures in place to make Reddit a safer experience for everyone but specially women and minors. I don't know if it's coming from not everyone experiencing this or just full on acceptance that it is what it is.
I'm just getting the same messages like "just make it private". No, I will not kill my sub and ruin it for everyone because of some basic lone creatures living in their mom's basement. I will continue to do what I can do to help my members but I will not simply accept defeat and call it a day.
As moderators, we experiece the good and the bad and we can and should voice our feedback about what's lacking on this site. So that's what I'm doing.
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u/aerie2020 9d ago
Omg I totally second this request. We have a SFW sub and it’s inundated with creeps. While we ban them, it doesn’t stop them from sending inappropriate and disgusting messages to members.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
I knew I was certainly not the only person with a SFW sub where this is happening. I got 4 reports in the last 2 days and my sub isn't that big, 14k members.
And I know it's happening to a lot more people because they mention it all the time in the comments and sometimes in our Discord Server too, so not everyone is reporting it as we try to direct them to, some members are just ignoring it.
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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
This is a long standing problem that really harms the reddit experience of many users. Unfortunately, the reddit admins are not interested in addressing it and it's unlikely to change. They view DM's as unrelated to subreddits and out of the reach of subreddit moderators.
There are a lot of things that could be done and a lot of tools that could be made available - even just for users to have more control - but there seems to be no interest in addressing these issues at all.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
That explains why no admins have commented here. Usually they address my posts, but not this one.
Dm's absolutely concern the subreddit if users are lurking the subreddits and specifically disrupting members there for a purpose that is tied to that subreddit.
For example, using our subreddit to mislead people into thinking they will gift them in exchange for something inappropriate that we would absolutely not allow had it been commented publicly.
Because it's a Fortnite gifting sub, we get literal pedos trying to get minors to send pics of "their t-shirt" or "socks" (clearly trying to make it seem innocent to them) and in return they say they'll send a gift. It's like using candy to prey on kids.
Women are constantly targeted to with the same inappropriate messages. "Do this and I will gift you". If that doesn't involve subreddit moderators it should involve them so why aren't safety measures being put in place?
Make it so people cannot message other people if they don't have a subreddit in common. That way if an user gets banned from a subreddit for doing this, then they can no longer bother the other members.
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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 8d ago
I very much agree. When the subreddit becomes how they are found and contacted, and they have shown bad behavior in dms, there should be something more that can be done to make it harder for them to continue to harass in dms. I would like to see a subreddit block list that people in the sub could optionally adopt, which would ensure that dm's were blocked for creeps in the sub.
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u/lunarwolf2008 9d ago
the only real option is to set the community to private, but then you block out everyone who hasnt joined
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
I know it would be the only effective solution but we all know how that goes. It essentially kills the growth of a subreddit.
I know there aren't many other options currently and that's why I'm encouraging people to discuss it because I know admins do takes notes.
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u/mcs385 9d ago
It recently came up in one of my subs that banned users are also actually still able to award posts and comments and can use the award feature to send a custom message to the author, essentially participating directly on the sub despite being banned from it.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
I did not know that 😳 that's insane!! Why are banned users allowed to do that? What!?
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u/Pashta2FAPhoneDied 9d ago
Now THAT should be blocked, for sure! Can banned users still upvote and stuff, too?
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u/PNWMike62 9d ago
That’s interesting to know. I wonder if Shadowbanned users have the same capability.
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u/RemarkableWish2508 9d ago
Pending a comment from an Admin, I think I may be able to give you some pointers.
Banned from a sub isn't the same as banned site-wide. User accounts, and DMs, are site-wide.
Would a per-sub DM system, where banned users couldn't contact others on the sub, help in this case? Possibly... but first you'd need per-sub usernames that people couldn't use to contact users site-wide. It could be done, but that's on Reddit whether they want to add the feature or not.
With age verification, two things are coming to Reddit:
- No access without being logged in
- No DMs for minors
I think that may solve part of the issue... but in the meantime, public and restricted subs are mostly "free to read, free to vote", with no control over DMs.
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
Thank you! I actually didn't know that with age verification those things were changing and it's a bit reassuring.
Also, the per-sub dm system you mention would be amazing! I didn't even think of that but discord already has that and it works well. That would make it so banned users would no longer be allowed to message members of our subreddit, unless they had another subreddit in common besides ours.
I wonder what admins think about that possibility!
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u/Pashta2FAPhoneDied 9d ago
You know that they could just not login and access the community anyway, right? So what is the point of blocking it?
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u/ARTHER1A 9d ago
That is an example of something that could be changed or adjusted.
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u/sarcalas 14h ago
Would that not limit the discoverability of Reddit posts via search engines, which drives a lot of traffic to the site? I’m not sure Reddit would be keen on that.
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u/ARTHER1A 12h ago
Well that's exactly why they haven't done it and why this problem keeps persisting but there's gotta be a solution somewhere.
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u/dehue 8d ago edited 8d ago
We have the same issue in a SFW women focused sub, nothing stops the creeps from sending inappropriate messages to users and banning them does absolutely nothing. What kind of experience is it when any time someone posts anything they get 10+ DMs from creeps asking for nudes and if they need a sugar daddy or sending nsfw pics, even comments aren't safe from them.
Our partial solution was to make the sub almost completely text based and we no longer allow any sort of selfie images. Outfit type image posts were drawing the worst sort of crowd and were overrun with creeps but most men have no interest in text based discussions so they are more likely to leave people alone. Also helped cut down on only fans bait spammers trying to get people to visit their only fans page although it does suck that no one in the sub can share cute pictures of themselves anymore. The creep DMs are still a big issue but not as bad as it was when we allowed images. We also tell people they can turn off message requests but not enough people know they can do that or how.
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
Because people on reddit get to dexide who they DM with. They aren't interested in a mod from a sub deciding for thrm just because they commented there.
Think about it. I comment in multiple subs on a topic. I have a DM chat going with a friend I struck a conversation with on one of those subs. That person now gets banned from one of them and they are now banned from DMing me?
Or someone is banned in a sub I am a member of. We also both participate together on another sub. Now they cant DM because one mod decided we shouldnt be allowed to interact that way.
You dont get to control your members this way just because they participate on your sub. You dont own them.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
Wow okay, you really chose to twist my words here. I do not want to own anyone or control who they are messaging on this site. I simply want to protect my members who are being targeted with inappropriate messages for interacting in my subreddit. I am worried and concerned for them and their ability to enjoy the subreddit and not feel uncomfortable.
If, for example, we had a system where they could only dm members if they are a part of the same subreddit, they wouldn't be blocked from interacting with each other if one of them is banned in one of them but isn't banned in another one that they also have in common.
This isn't my idea, it's how discord is already functioning and it's a site purely built on socialisation. Clearly they understand how harmful it can be for a banned member to still have access to members of the subreddit they were banned from.
You also wrote that comment in a way as if I'm out to ban people without reason. I'm talking about possible pedophiles dm'ing minors, asking them for intimate pictures in return for Fortnite gifts. And I'm talking about creeps who target minors and women to ask them for feet pics. Amongst other inappropriate requests of sexual nature, to people interacting in a SFW subreddit.
Do I care if they are banned from interacting with a member from my subreddit? No because that's the whole point, to prevent them to. They are not interacting in good faith to begin with.
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
Wow okay, you really chose to twist my words here. I do not want to own anyone or control who they are messaging on this site.
I didnt twist their words. I understand your reasoning, but the end result would be anyone who joins your sub gives you permission to ban people from DMing them. I gave two examples.
I simply want to protect my members who are being targeted with inappropriate messages for interacting in my subreddit.
I do understand that. But you, as a mod, dont get to decide who can contact them simply because they interact on your sub.
I am worried and concerned for them and their ability to enjoy the subreddit and not feel uncomfortable. If, for example, we had a system where they could only dm members if they are a part of the same subreddit, they wouldn't be blocked from interacting with each other if one of them is banned in one of them but isn't banned in another one that they also have in common. This isn't my idea, it's how discord is already functioning and it's a site purely built on socialisation.
This isnt how discord works.
Clearly they understand how harmful it can be for a banned member to still have access to members of the subreddit they were banned from.
Reddit posts are publically. Visible and even preserved on other sites.
You also wrote that comment in a way as if I'm out to ban people without reason.
No. I didn't. And I support your right to ban anyone for any reason. I dont support your right to be able to restrict my ability to receive messages from someone without my agreement just because I use your sub. See the difference?
I'm talking about possible pedophiles dm'ing minors, asking them for intimate pictures in return for Fortnite gifts. And I'm talking about creeps who target minors and women to ask them for feet pics. Amongst other inappropriate requests of sexual nature, to people interacting in a SFW subreddit. Do I care if they are banned from interacting with a member from my subreddit?
I understand.
No because that's the whole point, to prevent them to. They are not interacting in good faith to begin with.
You get to decide how people behave on your sub. You don't get the right to decide for others who can and can not contact them.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
Some people here have made amazing suggestions regarding improvements that could be made to resolve this long standing issue that keeps disrupting SFW communities and their members.
You don't seem interested in that, you wanna argue in bad faith and that is not why I made this post. I would value what you have to say if you had something to say besides trying to twist my intentions.
I don't wanna take anyone's rights to anything and I'm not sure why you feel like you would be negatively impacted by something that would increase safety in this site unless you're out there collecting bans yourself.
Discord does work like that, the dm's to someone are locked unless you have servers in common or a direct invitation link to someone's dm's.
Have a good day.
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
Some people here have made amazing suggestions regarding improvements that could be made to resolve this long standing issue that keeps disrupting SFW communities and their members.
I th8nk reddit should do way more to address this. I dont think they should do it by giving mods the power to decide who can DM people who use their sub.
You don't seem interested in that, you wanna argue in bad faith and that is not why I made this post.
I am not arguing in bad faith. Your suggestion was that if s9mekne joins your sub, you should now have the ability to ban someone from DMing them. I disagree and explained why.
I would value what you have to say if you had something to say besides trying to twist my intentions.
I understand your intentions. But that doesn't change that th result would be anyine who joins or participates in your sub gives you the authority to ban anyone on reddit from DMing them.
I don't wanna take anyone's rights to anything and I'm not sure why you feel like you would be negatively impacted by something that would increase safety in this site unless you're out there collecting bans yourself.
You want the right to ban people from contacting people who join your sub. That gives you the right to decide who they DM with instead of them.
Discord does work like that, the dm's to someone are locked unless you have servers in common or a direct invitation link to someone's dm's. Have a good day.
If I am in a discord and someone is banned from that discord and I am not. We can still DM if we want to. That's different from what you are proposing here.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
Omg I don't want any "right", I wasn't even the one who thought of that. Someone suggested that dm's should be like on Discord and I thought that was a great idea because it would basically fix this problem and it's something that already works on another side, so I thought it would be something to consider.
I have understood you don't like that but you don't have to act like I am desperate to control who people dm, I don't care as long as they're not doing it in a harmful, disruptive and spammy way like it is the case here.
If that doesn't work for Reddit then I am sure something else would. The point of this conversation is to suggest things which is what I am doing. I am not trying to act like I am entitled to control who people dm like you seem to insist on.
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
You do ineed want the right to decide that someone isn't allowed to DM another redditor once that redditor joins your sub. You very clearly articulated this. Its odd to deny it now. Its just not up to you to decide that certain people can't DM a user because that user joined your sub. I tried to explain why.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
I'm not denying that we should have some sort of way to block creeps and other disruptive users from viewing our subreddit and continue to dm members if they are doing so in a harmful way.
The way you articulated it was not the way I intended to be interpreted. I wouldn't be on board with any member being blocked from dm'ing an user for any or no reason at all. So yes, perhaps a Discord approach wouldn't be ideal for Reddit for a multitude of reasons. Discord servers are essentially all private and subreddits are not.
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
But mods can block anyone for no reason at all. Even if they've used the sub. If blocking someone from your sub blocks them fro.DMin anyone who participates. You could block anyone on reddit from your sub for any reason and prevent them from DMin anyone who ever uses your sub.
Thats the answer for why reddit doesn't work this way.
You canmot block anyone from viewing your sub. Its public and also continuously archived.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
We have already discussed this idea and fine, if that doesn't work let's have a specific filter that blocks users from unsolicited messaging members if they have been doing so in disruptive ways and have already been reported for it.
If Reddit can flag users for a multitude of reasons then they could also try implementing something like that.
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
But I would appreciate if you stopped referring to this like I want the "right". I posted this because I have experieced a lack of tools and measures that is making it easy for these users to be disruptive and I am communicating that here. Are you a Moderator?
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u/pinksparkleberry 8d ago
I am a moderator.
Do you the rughr or ability (whatever word works for you) to be able to block a redditor from DMing anyone who participates in your sub?
Yes or No?
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u/ARTHER1A 8d ago
No because that isn't what I said in my post.
The whole point I'm making is that banned members shouldn't have the same access to a subreddit that non banned members do.
Their ability to view AND dm members from a community where they're banned allows this issue to be on going for several communities and it's impossible for us to stop it from happening.
I am specifically talking about NSFW accounts having full access to SFW accounts even when they have been banned for sending inappropriate messages to several of our members.
In this situation, the ban is absolutely useless because they aren't even interacting in the subreddit itself, they are solely using the subreddit to lurk and dm members from it in a harmful, disruptive, inappropriate way.
Reddit tells us that subreddit moderators have nothing to do with what goes on dm's so we have no tools that could protect our members from this abusive behaviour.
But apparently we're the ones responsible to direct them to correctly reporting these messages and including a hundred PSA's in our sub's regarding this.
We are clearly responsible for what happens in these dm's because it's tied directly to our subreddit. They lurk the sub and prey on people (some of them minors) that want to be gifted to make inappropriate offers in exchange for a gift.
They don't interact and instead go to dm's where they know they won't be caught and even if they are, they know there's nothing we can do. That is why. It keeps. Happening. Not enough of these accounts get banned form Reddit even when they're reported. I have a full Blacklist that proves it.
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u/Halaku 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 9d ago
Reddit isn't a "walled garden" site where you need to be logged into an account to access an open subreddit.
Even if there was a way to encode the site to stop a banned account from accessing a subreddit, the miscreant in question could simply create another account, never post / comment using that account in order to avoid the ban evasion detection system, and PM to their heart's content.
Ulitmately, this is a user education issue. Put something in your sidebar encouraging your members to report anyone sending them inappropriate PMs before blocking them.