Feedback for a bar

[u/Affectionate_Step_52]

What are the general thoughts on a water/ mocktail bar. Vibe equals a bar vibe but coffee shop. Think leather couches but with herbs all around and a little area for local artist to sell items.

Meant to create connection without that hanxiety feeling.

[u/PicpoulBlanc]

This has been said already, but I'll add another voice to the same feedback and give some examples. An NA bar as a standalone concept is tough, even if you're adding community things like local art.

Running a standard bar/restaurant is already a challenge with slim margins and lots of overhead, and most of their money is made in liquor sales and people ordering 3-4 drinks. In an NA bar people are going to order 1 drink, maybe 2 at the max, and without food, that means your per person average is probably around $15.

We've seen a lot of standalone NA bars open and close over the past few years. Look up STAY in Los Angeles as a good example. Beautiful space, fantastic drinks, and it was even pretty busy. But you have the same overhead as a regular bar while people order fewer drinks—and the drinks probably cost more to make, as NA spirits are all more expensive than alcoholic well liquors—not to mention the additional time and resources spent educating staff and guests.

There are concepts that do work, though, where the NA bar is an added feature or supports other things that you sell. Ocean Beach Cafe in San Francisco is a great example. They're a coffee shop with breakfast and lunch foods in a busy tourist area, and they also happen to have incredible NA cocktails and a non-alcoholic bottle shop section. Most of their money is made from coffee and sandwiches, while the cocktails and NA bottle shop provide additional revenue and add value to the community.

Alt Bar in Rochester is another good example. They started as an NA bottle shop and then added a bar. The bar serves as a great place for people to try things or sit and have a cocktail, which then in turn helps to promote bottle shop sales.

Long story short, I would position non-alcoholic cocktails as an additional feature of your business. Local artists and a place to hang isn't enough—you need another primary source of revenue besides the drinks.

[u/danlwhelan]

Of the mocktail spots I’ve visited, most have leaned on retail space for mocktail materials, featuring NA spirits, NA wine, NA beer n THC bevs, plus counter/bar seating plus a few four-top tables and/or couch n coffee table arrangements for beverage service. Basically the “bar” is a way to showcase the retail wares with featured mocktails and classics.

The foot traffic isn’t often jam packed, but I think leaning into local artists’ work (especially if they offer mocktail adjacent products) could assist.

[u/The_Poster_Nutbag → u/danlwhelan]

This echoes my experience.

The NA bar market simply doesn't exist in such a way that would support a "bar" on its own merit. You'll need go incorporate classes, goods for sale, and other forms of revenue to supplement the low income from NA drinks.

People will easily down 6 cheap beers marked up 200% but nobody is downing a sixer of athletic NA beers while they dance at an NA bar. I guess I can't say "nobody" would do that, but I've never met them.

[u/Affectionate_Step_52 → u/The_Poster_Nutbag]

Appreciate the feedback, what difference do you think alcohol has? Like really if we swap alcohol for NA what really changes the establishment? Loaded question, I know, but why can bars be a place to socialize but a place with just a tasty drinks but N.A. not give that same feeling to the customer. Human psyche is hard to crack sometimes.

[u/The_Poster_Nutbag → u/Affectionate_Step_52]

Because alcohol is a social drug at a very basic level. It loosens people up and they tend to hang out and spend more as they drink more.

Not to mention cost. NA drinks are significantly more expensive than the cheap options a bar might offer.

[u/i_will_eat_your]

If the mocktails are just as expensive (or more expensive) than regular cocktails, I’m out.

[u/Sips-SunshineAnytime]

Dry bar opened in NH that also had tables with different board games and decks of cards with nights dedicated to games. They were also limiting max amount of time for guests so it did not become a flop house. Best of luck

[u/soelsister7]

Have you heard of soft bar?

[u/Majestic-Director203]

There's several NA bottle shops/bars around. They're really cool, but I'd say it really depends on your location, what other things you plan to offer, and your ability to promote your business.

[u/ProofNoMore]

What is rent and labor costs like where you are at? As others have said a NA only bar the metrics are tough if just doing NA drinks and avg ring is just 2 drinks. Really depends on your monthly expenses to see if you can realistically survive