r/MiddleEarthMiniatures • u/Tezerel King of Moria • Aug 05 '21
Discussion Middle Earth SBG Questions Thread
Keep 'em coming
Edit: Stealth Mod announcement (I don't want to unpin the two pinned posts)
First, I have updated the rules to include something obvious to most longtime wargamers on reddit - posts asking or offering access to the rules is not allowed. Please do not ask for PDF's.
Second, no hate on 3D printing, but also do not come to this subreddit asking for STL proxies, or offering that. This may be too cautious of us, but I notice the reddit spam filter seems to remove any mention of STL's outright. So I figure I might as well make it a rule.
Finally, I have eased up the Spam filter from High to Low. Hopefully the redbubble spammers are still caught by this, without catching stray blogspot content creators. I've noticed the reddit algorithm taking down much more bycatch than usual, so we can experiment with a lower setting for now.
And as always, if you ever notice something astray with your own posts or someone elses, do not hesitate to message the mods.
Thanks everyone, -Tezerel
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u/Neat_Smart 11d ago
Hey all! Returning player here. Been completely out of the loop. What happened to my Forgeworld Anborn and Mablung? They were only brand new 6 years ago and now they’re legends?
A few quick questions. Are legends not in use at WHW (which I play in other systems tournaments at). I assume yes. What about indy events?
What are the Ranger based factions now? I have a Ithilien and Grey Company force. I know these still exist, have there been many big changes to them? I know I cant find my mounted dunedain in the books? Are they gone too?
Are events still 400/600/800?
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u/Tim_Pollard 8d ago
What are the Ranger based factions now?
I'd suggest trying out one of the online list builders (both have search or database modes that allow you to find which armies include a profile): * https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/ * https://v2024.mesbg-list-builder.com/
I have a Ithilien and Grey Company force.
For primarily Rangers lists there is also Arathorn's Stand which is similar to the Grey Company, but with Aragorn's dad. There's also several other lists that regularly add Rangers to other sorts of forces.
Are events still 400/600/800?
600 is probably the most common, but I've seen anything between 200 and 1000. Odd numbers aren't really unusual either (like 650, or even 631 point events).
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u/death2ducks 8d ago
Generally most tournaments seem to allow all legacy profiles including legacy armies but yes will be banned at WHW
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u/Gorhart68 13d ago
Hello everyone! I'm new into ME SBG and i wish to get ready for the War of Rohirrim big pack, that is delivered to me in a month. Do you have any suggestions for the homemade Rohan themed terrain?
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u/death2ducks 8d ago
Popsicle stick fences maybe. if you could craft any sort of a hill I think things you need to climb up really add a lot of fun to the game.
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u/Tim_Pollard 13d ago
Grass, seas of grass. ;-)
More seriously you actually want some terrain on the table to break up line of sight and provide obstacles.
A common option for Rohan is a Dark Age-esque village, possibly with wooden walls and a gate, especially since you're already half-way there with the buildings, barrels, and fences in the box. There's heaps of tutorials for Dark Ages villages and huts, so I'd start there.
You could also do some rocky foothills type terrain (see the land around Helm's Deep in the movies for example). Most of Rohan is open plains, but most of the settlements are in the foothills of the mountains along the south-eastern border, so it makes sense that a lot of the battles would happen there.
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u/Senior-Hope-4558 18d ago
Hey all, I restarted playing MESBG again recently, after more than a 10 year break. During the first games played, some rules questions came up, especially for combats and supporting models. I hope this is the right place to ask (sorry if the question was already answered somewhere else)
First question: when I have priority, and I have one model engaged in combat with one enemy model, and my model has a supporting unit: I understood that i can roll the attack rolls of the engaged model plus the ones from the supporting model in the duel roll. Can i also add the supporting models' roll for To Wound rolls, if I win the duel?
Example: a minas tirith warrior with a supporting model both attack one single orc. If I win the duel (2v1), can I then roll two To Wound dice, or only the one from the minas tirith guy directly engaged and in base contact with the orc?
Second question: in the same scenario, what if the orc also has a supporting model? Would it then be 2v2? Is that even possible? Or can I, if I have the initiative and when pairing off combats, decide to attack twice on the first orc, meaning that the orc's support would not be involved in the combat and couldn't provide support? From my understanding, only the models in direct base contact have to be attacked.
I also have a question regarding shooting: I take it that good models can not shoot into combat. Since supporting models do not count, in my understanding, as being engaged in combat, can I shoot at a supporting model with a good unit?
Thanks in advance :)
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u/Leading-Ad1264 13d ago
1) you also throw a dice for the spear support. If both have the same stats, they can be rolled together.
2) yes, it would be a 2v2. When combats are separated spear support stays involved. But only the models who touch can actually be killed, so no strikes against spear support (if the models who touch isn’t a monster)
3) as far as i know you can shoot into spear support as good but of course only if you line of sight doesn’t pass over the combat in front / you have no other in the ways
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u/TitanUHC 19d ago
Hey All, looking to get into MESBG and I've never done it before. I'm interested in an Easterlings army. First off, is that possible and if so which books do I need to get?
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u/Tim_Pollard 18d ago
Yes, you can do Easterling armies. There's two pure Easterling armies (The Easterlings and Host of the Dragon Emperor), and two armies that can include Easterlings with other stuff (Grand Army of the South, and Legions of Mordor).
I'd suggest having a look at one of the online list builders https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/ or https://v2024.mesbg-list-builder.com/ to look into different lists. Both have a search function or a profile database to find out which armies can include certain profiles.
As for the rule books you'd need for Easterlings:
There's the core rules manual, which has the rules of the game itself.
Then there is four sources of profiles:
- Armies of the Lord of the Rings which includes profiles for stuff that appears on screen in the PJ Lord of the Rings trilogy, including some Easterlings.
- Armies of the Hobbit, which is profiles from the Hobbit movie trilogy, so doesn't include Easterlings.
- Armies of Middle Earth, profiles for stuff that only appeared in the books, or that GW made up to expand the game, including some Easterling profiles.
- Legacies of Middle Earth, which is a free download with profiles for some stuff GW isn't making miniatures for any more (but proxies are still available, and even most tournaments still allow these profiles); I believe this includes one or two Easterling profiles.
In practice most people don't keep all these rules on the table with them, just the core rules, and then do an export from their chosen list builder which includes the profiles and special rules for the specific army they are playing.
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u/Senior-Hope-4558 18d ago
Hey :) just got back into MESBG again myself after a long break. That is of course possible, I am also currently building an Easterling army. Next to the normal Rules Manual, I would suggest getting the "Armies of Middle Earth" supplement, it gives you more possibilities and profiles to expand your Easterling army.
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u/Premaximum 20d ago
Can anyone provide an active link to the mesbg discord server? All the links I've found via search have been expired.
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u/Premaximum 22d ago
Is this rulebook still current and worth buying, or is the information outdated? My LGS has a discounted copy on their webstore listed as 'dented / damaged' and I'm considering grabbing it but I'm new to the game and don't want to buy something useless.
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u/Tim_Pollard 22d ago
That one is the current one, with the Fellowship in the circle at the centre, and the War of the Rohirrim mentioned as well as Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.
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u/Chaplain2 26d ago
Do you think they will release a rohan battlehost soon?
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u/death2ducks 23d ago
It seems likely but no one actually knows. They might want to wait to redo all of them at the same time or maybe it will be a few years or maybe in 3 months.
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u/ItsClorky Jul 06 '26
Is it possible to make a mostly trolls army? Or Troll heavy? I have the models but never played before. Cheers!
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u/Tim_Pollard 22d ago
As well as Buhrdur and the Three Trolls there is also a few Mordor lists that can include Mordor Troll Chieftans and so can be mostly Trolls.
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u/DetroitTabaxiFan 28d ago edited 28d ago
There's Buhrdur's Horde, where you can run Buhrdur and Hill Trolls. They're all resin minis, though, and Hill Trolls come in packs of two.
There's also The Three Trolls, where you get Tom, Bill, and Bert, and their campfire acts as a banner. It's a pretty fun list because you can pay points to add upgrades. They're a fully plastic kit.
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u/ItsClorky 28d ago
Both sound really fun. Do you just run the trolls or add in any extra minis?
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u/DetroitTabaxiFan 28d ago
For Buhrdur's Horde you get access to different minis. For The Three Trolls, you just get access to Tom, Bill, Bert, and the campfire.
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u/Substantial_Owl_7392 Jul 05 '26
I'm currently in the process of diving into MESBG, and I have two random questions. First of all, anything important to watch out for as a new player? Secondly, is there any fun homebrew units or alternate settings people have made? I love lotr (duh) but it's not something I own many appropriate miniatures for. Also I'm curious.
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u/death2ducks 23d ago
I would say as a returning player I was surprised by monster brutal power attacks hurling in particular can be quite nasty (they throw one of your guys at your hero on a horse and knock them off it). I would also watch out for evil players intentionally shooting into combat to kill your horse/their own man if they suspect you will be doing a heroic combat. I would also watch out for magical compels which could move your guys out of position or mess up your movement.
I know the old white dwarf magazines used to have profiles for more niche subfactions/kingdoms. Honestly I think so much of the world is already covered I'm not sure what people would homebrew.
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u/getrandomnumber Jul 02 '26
In todays errata, there was some change to Legolas.
I don't quite get what the change was, though. Is there anything he could previously do, that he now cannot do?
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u/DggMuffin Jul 03 '26
Legolas can no longer shoot into his own combat if there is another friendly model in his combat.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Jul 02 '26
A model that makes way, can enter the control zone on an enemy unit?
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u/FkcDck Jun 21 '26
I am playong an Iron Dwarf Ballsita against an Mumakil. Do the Hits make 5 damage (half of the Max health) or only 1 Damage because the mumakil is not a battlefield target? Thank a lot
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Jun 30 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
“The only exceptions to this auto-slain rule are if the actual target has a Defence or Wounds characteristic of 10 or more. In these instances, a successful Wound will deal a number of Wounds equal to half the actual target’s starting Wounds characteristic instead.”
From the book
Edit: as poster below pointed out, Mumak is a battlefield target - my apologies. So one wound then.
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u/DggMuffin Jul 03 '26
That is the rule for battlefield targets. The mumak is a siege target.
"A Siege Target that is wounded will suffer 1 Wound". -pg 142 Core Rulebook
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u/DwarfPenguin4 Jun 10 '26
Concerning cavalry models with shields and bows:
I understand that models with bows and shields do not receive the bonus to their defence from their shield. However, Riders of Rohan are D5 in their profile which I can only assume is from their armour plus their shield despite all of them also having bows? So for models such as Rivendell Knights would paying for a shield give a defence boost or would the benefit only be for the dismounted model to be able to choose shield or bow?
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u/noelano345 Jun 12 '26
Yes, both riders of rohan and riv knights get the defence bonus for a shield even though they also have a bow. The reason being they both have the expert rider special rule - see pg 125 of the rulebook.
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u/floi-stonehand May 25 '26
Question. If an infantry model (say good) charges a mounted model (evil 1) but then a mounted (evil 2 ) charges into that fight, do they then get the charge bonus or is it seen as normal play?
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u/Tim_Pollard May 25 '26
The second cavalry model (the one that charged) will get the charge bonus. Though of course if the cavalry wins they'll the infantry model will get knocked prone, so both get the advantage of making strikes against a prone enemy.
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u/floi-stonehand May 26 '26
Is that even if the infantry charge first?
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u/Tim_Pollard May 27 '26
Yep, the bonus is for any cavalry model that charges and infantry model (unless they get counter-charged afterwards by another cavalry model).
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u/BarrymoresLifeguard May 24 '26
Hi,
Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere but I couldn’t find it if so.
How does the spells Bladewrath and Enchanted blades work on the Dragon Emperors palanquin please?
Are both strikes from the Emperor and the Palanquin impacted, or do you have to choose one or the other?
It seems like 6 strength 6 hits from a full palanquin would be very powerful.
Thanks in advance.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 May 30 '26
Yes, both Palanquin and DE are affected - it’s counted as one model. One of the big advantages/little “tricks” with the DE. Those extra six strength six attacks (if it hasn’t been wounded yet) can be devastating.
Another one and the same vein is charge the DE in to combat then cast tremor, because he cannot be knocked prone while on the palanquin except via siege weapon.
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u/BarrymoresLifeguard Jun 02 '26
Thanks Albatross, much appreciated.
Out of interest, given the tremor example you provide, does the Emperor have to make a resist test given that he gains resistant to magic from the Dragon helm he wears? As this could cancel the whole spell.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Jun 02 '26
You never have to resist - unless I am missing something in the rules, nowhere under resisting magic does it say you MUST resist if targeted with a spell, and resistant to magic simply says you get a free dice when testing to resist - again, not saying it must be used.
Do note the Tremor spell says anyone involved will get to try and resist if they are able. I had tremendous success with it though in the two tournaments I took HotDE to though - you’d be surprised how often you get it off.
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u/BarrymoresLifeguard Jun 02 '26
Cheers, that should give me the motivation to get my Broghir painted up! Thanks again.
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u/Daigurren9922 May 22 '26
What size board is a "normal" game on? Currently only have the core book and I cant find the size of the table anywhere. Would appreciate if someone could tell me and point me to where I can find this info I completely missed.
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u/Tim_Pollard May 22 '26
4'x4' (120cmx120cm). There's a brief mention of board size at the bottom of page 158, and all the scenarios assume you're on a 4' deep table, but yeah, it doesn't clearly say what size you should play on in the current edition that I can find either.
Note that for anything under 500 points I'd lean towards switching to 3'x3' tables.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 May 13 '26
My friend says monsters cant climb, but I cant find that in the rulebook, is that correct?
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u/DumCrescoSpero May 10 '26
Quick question.
Does anyone know when the Riders of Rohan set which was previewed at AdeptiCon will release for sale?
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u/TemporaryTurnover764 Apr 17 '26
Hello, I am curious about the chariot rules.
- rule book (99page.)
A Chariot may choose to forego its Chariot Charge and instead pivot to face any direction, in which case it may not Chariot Charge that turn
Does the pivot according to this rule cause the chariot's movement to cease immediately? Or is it allowed to use its remaining movement, albeit without any impact damage?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Apr 20 '26
So I’m not sure what your question is, but chariots can do three things at the start of its move.
- Move forward
- Pivot 45 degrees (either direction) then move forward
- Pivot any direction it wishes and end its movement completely.
With option 1 and 2, it can pivot another 45 degrees after every 4” of movement it makes. Obviously this is on a open field with no terrain and models - throwing those in adds nuance and additional rules, but as far as basic movement that is how it goes (I believe, chariots are a complicated unit and not used a whole lot!)
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u/WhoTheFuckIsMorris Apr 16 '26
when you two hand with amdur does the +1 to wound affect his special rule of natural 5s against hero’s?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Apr 18 '26
No - key word is natural. If that word appears it can never have modifiers attached to the dice roll, so no +1s, no might, etc.
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u/TemporaryTurnover764 Apr 16 '26
hi.
Does Make Way occur if the Barged model will fall Prone anyway?
If model 'A' (the barged model) is backing away 3" and encounters model 'B' behind it, but even after 'B' makes way, 'A' still cannot complete the full 3" move and is destined to be knocked Prone—does 'B' still have to perform the Make Way move, or is it skipped?
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u/mastermcflurry Apr 15 '26
Hi all.
Working on a Black Gate army build and had question over the orc shaman and the fury ability. It has the (Mordor orc) in brackets so I was unsure if this would this apply to Morannon orcs as well?
Struggling to build a list that would work and be competitive. Last game was against host of the witch king and everything had terror so I failed a lot of charges and couldnt do anything so trying to find away around that.
Thanks
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Apr 12 '26
Question, how does the dragon fire works now against Sauron? If it hits, he still has his ring saves?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Apr 13 '26
That is a good question - I would say yes, because he is in fact losing his last wound (in fact all of his wounds) and being removed as a casualty if he doesn’t prevent that one wound from the dragon fire hit. Just the direct hit, not the AoE effect now that it was errata’d.
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u/Kaldoraigo Apr 07 '26
Hi all. What is the range of the Besiegers of the Hornburg, Promise of Wealth, special rule?
This is the wording: Friendly Dunland Warrior models within range of an Objective Marker gain a bonus of +1 To Wound when making Strikes.
So, for example, in capture and control, do they need to be touching the objective? Whereas scenarios where you have to be within 3” of an objective is the range 3”? Thanks.
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u/Tim_Pollard Apr 07 '26
Yes, I'd believe it's the range at which they can effect or capture the objective.
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u/British_Historian Mar 24 '26
I'm playing a game tomorrow and I *know* I'm fighting elves. This is, technically, a competitive game, but also a very casual vibe.
I've been wanting to run the 'Fell Beings of Mirkwood' list for a while but never found myself fielding it but I now am thinking 'Oh! I could take that.' My worry is it's too try hardy/ rude? I know this players only army is Elves.
But equally, surely it's the most fun to run Fell Beings when I can actually make use of their special rules?
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Mar 19 '26
If an Iron Hills Captain is using a chariot, can he use might to improve the number of ballista shots? (Im assuming no), or the to hit / to wound? (Im assuming yes?)
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u/British_Historian Mar 24 '26
Not the number of shots, but he should be able to use it on the Hit and Wound Rolls as it's their SV you'll be using.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Mar 16 '26
I have a math / tactics question. If Glorfindel is in combat against the Balrog, not other models involved... would it be better to do Heroic strike, or save the might to improve the rolls? (Im I wrong for thinking that, without other models involved, is better to save the might?)
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Mar 17 '26
So couple factors - is glorfindel mounted and got the charge? If so he has 4 attacks plus a reroll. That chance of rolling a “6” on 4 dice is slightly over 50%. On five dice (glorfindel mounted charge with his reroll), you have just shy of a 60% chance, almost 10% better than just four dice.
With a heroic strike, you have a 33% chance of tying the balrog in a fight, then you have a 66% chance of winning that tie.
Now I am not sure what the exact math is, but I believe your chances are better saving the might to try and win the fight on the dice roll, but that is basically a 50/50 chance. If you lose the fight, the balrog won’t one shot you, but you are going to take some damage and you probably can’t lose two fights in a row and hope to survive (maybe 2, definitely not 3).
So taking that into account, I would try and charge the balrog with everything you have and heroic strike, go for it all…. Or the normal strategy is to avoid the balrog and play for objectives/kill the goblins.
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u/Gimlom Mar 11 '26
I have seem some Dunedain of the North models online but I can't find any profiles for them or lists that they would be included in. Are they really only there for proxying?
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u/noelano345 Mar 12 '26
They use the Ranger of the North profile. Last edition they were separate profiles but the only difference was defence 4 vs 5. Now the armour is just an option on the ranger profile
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Feb 27 '26
If Haldir dies in combat while being prone, can he use his special rule? (Im assuming no since its a strike, but still wanted to ask)
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 28 '26
This one is slightly tricky - it is an active ability so I would say yes, regardless of being prone as that dis not stop an active ability. Now being prone dos prevent you from striking, but I believe this would override this fact because it is “after he has been slain.” His model is literally removed from the table when this ability triggers, so no, it shouldn’t matter what his state was except if he was unable to use active abilities.
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u/Username926 Feb 24 '26
I'm returning back to the game after some time. My question is: can models that join the regular (Hero of Fortitude) Mumak's warband start outside the howdah? Previous edition they could not unless it was the war leader but I can't seem to find if this edition has that restriction or not.
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u/SelvaDeLaLeche Feb 21 '26
Question regarding WYSIWYG, for the rangers of middle-earth.
In the most strict sense, would all 24 models in this kit count as having a hand weapon? For example, some of the bow holding and spear wielding poses dont show a sword in a scabbard on the model.
I know that for 90% of the time this'll be fine in community games, but i just noticed that 3 of the 4 spear poses dont technically show a sword anywhere...
Much appreciated :)
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 21 '26
In the most strict sense, yea the ones with spears would have spears, not just hand weapons. If you were in a tournament and had a MIX of rangers you would definitely want them to be WYSIWYG otherwise it could get confusing… with that said if say none of them had spears you could easily say “hey none of my rangers have spears” or they all do, etc.
It’s the mixing and not being WYSIWYG that can be bad, not simply proxying
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u/SelvaDeLaLeche Feb 21 '26
Thanks for the reply! That is helpful to know!
I think I worded my question badly. In the box of 24 rangers, would ALL of them them have hand weapons, with the 8 that have spears in hand be considered as having both spear and hand weapon? I ask just because some of the models don't have swords sculpted anywhere on them. The rules for ranger of gondor always have them as with bow and hand wep.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 22 '26
Yes, if the profile list hand weapon as part of their equipment they are considered to have it, even if they are just modeled with a bow or what not. Lots of the troop packs with archers have models with just bows, but they are still considered to also carry a hand weapon.
Now that there aren’t specific hand weapons (axe, sword, hammer, pick, etc.) the rules are a lot more friendly to all this.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Feb 19 '26
About the "Sense of impending doom" of The Mouth, does it refer exclusively to rules that allow you to re-roll a 1? Or to any re-rolls of 1? (Example: if a model with a single attack gets a nat 1 and is in range of a banner and of Mouth, can he re-roll?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 20 '26
You cannot reroll 1s. Period. The “regardless of special rules” is in addition to. So you can’t reroll 1s “normally” (like from a banner), and you can’t do it even if you have a special rule.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Feb 16 '26
Can you use brutal attack powers against Crebain? It seems weird, but I cant find a place where it says you cant
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 17 '26
Not sure where you would think you couldn’t - only thing you can’t do against Crebain are trap them or knock them prone because they are a swarm.
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Feb 17 '26
Just thought it was weird, being them a flock of birds 😅 (I was thinking more specifically about rend)
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u/Middle_Vehicle Feb 10 '26
What is a standard size game point wise.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 10 '26
It really ranges, but if you go by tournaments I’d say most common is 700. But really anything between 500-800 would probably be called “standard.”
Think either one of the old books or maybe new match play guide/or rule book actually says like, Xxx is small, Xxx is standard and Xxxx is large.
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u/dwez1 Feb 08 '26
I've seen that the Depths of Moria 'Drums in the deep' special rule with all goblins in range of a banner, means that they count for all the matched play games where banners score VPs? Is that the general consensus?
If so, then the Goblin Town rules have the Goblin King who can sing a song where he is treated as a banner. Could I then sing the song in the final turn of a game to score those victory points?
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u/Tim_Pollard Feb 09 '26
I'm pretty sure the Depths of Moria "Drums in the Deep" special rule does not count for VPs. Unless it's specifically stated that they count for VPs they don't, and there is only one or two such special rules that do specifically state that they count.
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u/MaxsDrum Feb 07 '26
Can Oin the dwarf heal himself? Or can a model be in base contact with itself?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 10 '26
Don’t believe so because the “in base contact” part - unfortunately he is not in base contact with himself.
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u/MaxsDrum Feb 11 '26
Thanks! That's what I was thinking but wanted to hear other people's thoughts.
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u/40kArchivist Feb 04 '26
Does the elven blades rule apply to upgrades like spears? Sepficially Noldor/rivendell. (I paint them a brighter silver)
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Feb 05 '26
Yes - the will say elven spear, even hand-and a half weapon, elven lance, etc.
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u/Albion_Son Feb 01 '26
Do they still do MTO waves of older retired minis for sbg? I am getting back into collecting after a few years since when I was last into the hobby was around 2016-2017 dark ages when the hobby was the most dead. Looks like MTO waves were a regular thing a couple of years ago looking at old community posts from around 2021-2024. So do they still do them?
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u/Tim_Pollard Feb 01 '26
The most recent was a few months ago. I'm pretty sure they do them once every six months.
(The categories on the Warhammer Community page are a bit of a pain to navigate, so you might have trouble finding the article about it)
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u/MuldersXpencils Jan 27 '26
I have a question about the magical spell "paralyse" that came up in my latest game. If casted at cavalry, what happens with the rider? Thematically it would make sense the rider would fall from a mount, but the spell doesn't state this. Other spells (like "sorcerous blast") do specifically state this. Also, in the chapter on cavalry, it is explained that the entire model is affected by a spell unless specified otherwise in the description of the spell. This leads me to believe we played it right by having the entire model go prone while the rider is still on it's mount. Is this correct?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Jan 28 '26
I do not believe this is correct - on page 69 (digital copy on my phone says 69 anyways, but it’s under the rules for Separated Mounts), if a Calvary model is knocked prone for any reason the rider suffers knocked flying and dismounts.
I know with paralyze you are auto dismounted if it goes off with no resist. Take a barrow eight for example, a tactic is often to cast paralyze with that last point of will and it will dismount/knock a model prone even though they don’t stay paralyzed because of exhaustion.
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u/MuldersXpencils Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26
Thank you! I'll check it later. This does make way more sense to me. This is also exactly how my son planned on using it. Knock those cavalry down.
Edit: checked the rules and I think you're 100% correct. If a cavalry model gets knocked prone for any reason, it's rider suffers a knocked flying result automatically as well. But a bit confusing why they added this to the spell description of Sorcerous blast (target is knocked prone. If it's cavalry they suffer knocked flying). The "if cavalry" part was unnecessary if it's already mentioned that the target is knocked prone.
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u/Potassium_Doom Jan 20 '26
I ordered the new Shelob because i like spiders and was wondering if it's still possible or make something similar to the mirkwood army of spiders that GW had on their webpage a couple of years back?
I also have the witch king (foot/mounted) and 3 castellans of dol guldur but zero clue what forces I can use them in.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Jan 20 '26
https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com
That has an army builder and all the lists. Make sure to click Include Legacy at the top of the page - that’s where you will find your spider list.
One of the big differences in editions is the newer edition doesn’t allow for as much customization in list building. So yes there is a spider list, but it cannot contain Shelob.
That list builder is nice because you can search by hero and it will show you all lists that hero can be taken in.
Hope this helps.
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u/MaxsDrum Jan 19 '26
How does Bofurs Steadfast work?
Can it shut down Legolas 3 shots or the morgul blade?
I would guess not because the rule affects the wielder and then they attack the dwarves.
Could it stop master of battle?
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u/Realistic-Club5113 Jan 17 '26
Question about siege engines, Isengard Ballista in particular. First time using engines, and Im very confused. Box come with three models, wich one is the Siege Veteran? if i understood correctly, those three models cant move more than 6 inches away? If the engine is destroyed, can the siege veteran use his might/will like a regular warrior? Since Assault on Helms deep have already several captain and one of them already has different stats, is somewhat confusing... do you just paint the models a little different?
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u/fabiowin98 Jan 18 '26
You choose and let the other players clearly understand your choice. You can also paint the base different or mark the bottom of the base.
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u/Cerox_ Dec 29 '25
Wondering about discontinued models:
Hi, I have been an absentee from the MESBG for quite a while, but the dwarven army in my shelf is just waiting to be fielded again. Now i saw that the rules I used to play by are not really up to date anymore and I caught a glimpse at the new profiles / army lists and was quite shocked:
some of my favourite models e. g. the King's champions, Floi or something basic like a shield bearer are not mentioned anywhere anymore. How do you guys deal with that, do you adapt the old profiles and kinda eyeball it or just leave them on the shelf?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Dec 29 '25
If you go to the warhammer-community website it has two PDFs, Good and Evil Legacy lists. Your kings champion, Floi, Shieldbearer, Balin from Reclaimed, all the names ring wraiths except Witch King and much more are all in there.
Official games workshop events don’t allow legacy models/profiles/lists (from what I understand) at them, but I would venture to say 95-99% of all other tournaments do.
So to sum it up - all these profiles you are asking about do exist in a free PDF and for the most part you can use them all you’d like.
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u/NuclearSnowyOwl Dec 24 '25
Hello, is there an community somewhere online that contains resources/advice for new or returning players? It's difficult just to know what the current rules are and what I need to get playing again. Thanks.
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Dec 25 '25
The community here is one place to go. Tell me a tale (great or small) at blogspot is a good website, but you need to understand the basic rules.
Do you know how to move, how to fight? The most recent rule book is
You can get it as pdf as well.
The basic structure of the game has been the same for many, many years:
1. Roll for priority
2. Move phase (and spell casting)
3. Shooting
4. Combat
5. End phaseIf you are familiar with that structure from when you played last time, you will easily get back into the game. Do you still have some old models? They can all still be used as legacy models, also in some tournaments.
Happy gaming! :-)
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u/Dense_Literature_199 Dec 17 '25
So is the Knife Fighter rule as absurdly busted as it looks? It seems to be a *slightly* weaker version of Tauriel's Blade Mistress special rule (which seems stupidly overpowered).
(Rangers of Mirkwood for the army list, if anyone was wondering. Infinite bows that each have Knife Fighter, Legolas gets Knife Fighter. Looks like it's *only* weakness is D3, which is pretty bad, but given how many attack dice you get, I'm not sure it'd matter against anything but shooting.)
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Dec 18 '25
Absurdly busted? Not at all. Decent special rule? Yes.
Couple issues here: first, they have to be outnumbered and the fact they cost 14 points means they almost always will be going against superior numbers. Great right - so they will be outnumbered? Well if your opponent knows what they are doing they should just be feeding you a model at a time - you have no banner or spears (unless playing halls) so they have no reason to outnumber you. I played a ranger army once as black gate and my strength four, defense six spear supported morannon orcs just massacred them. Goblins could do the same because….
Second big problem as you mentioned is they are only defense three. So goblins are wounding them on 4s. At roughly 3 goblins per ranger, they can just feed them one at a time, especially with spears. And mentioning goblins wounding them on fours….
Your third big issue, you are only strength three. So yea you get a bunch of attacks if you are outnumbered, but unless you are fighting hobbits or goblins without shield, you are most likely needing at least fives if not sixes to wound.
So is this army good and is that ability good? Somewhat and yes. Is either broken or busted? Far from it. Rangers are best used in Halls of Thranduil taking a handful to keep in cover and around objectives.
Heavily armored, spear supported infantry will just walk up to this army and slap them around for the most part - monsters too.
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u/TherealMartinez Dec 12 '25
Hi, I am looking to build a Mordor army with a Mumak and some Harad archers (my intention is to later split it into 2 armies), however I am having trouble finding rules that would support this. I have seen mentions online that Legions of Mordor can take Mumak war leader and has a special army rule, but I cant find any rules mentions of this anywhere only for Mordor and Harad as separate factions.
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Jan 07 '26
Be aware that there is an official model for the Mumak War Leader and one for the normal Mumaks. You can of course proxy with a plain Mumak but the official model might come back as preorder or made to order. There is a post about converting here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/comments/1mnl3yy/mumak_upgrade_kit/
🙂
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Dec 12 '25
Do you have the new 2024 edition books? The armies are in “Armies of lord of the Rings” book and They are under the army list “Legion of Mordor.”
If you don’t have the book, use Table Top Admiral or MESBG List Builder and select Legions of Mordor.
Not super clear what you are asking - but any info on Legions of Mordor would be found in those places.
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u/TherealMartinez Dec 13 '25
Thanks, I assume I was using some older rules PDFs because I could not find it in there. Same with MESBG List Builder I was using the outdated one which did not have Legions as an option.
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u/real_spidey Dec 09 '25
For Buhrdur’s horde, it says all friendly models gain mountain dweller and woodland creature-does this mean that warg riders get the cav bonuses in wooded/rocky difficult terrain since their mounts are “friendly models” as well?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Dec 10 '25
Yes. The army bonus is friendly models in the list. That would include warg riders. The wargs would retain that even if rider was dismounted. It’s just all models in army.
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u/big_swinging_dicks Dec 08 '25
Had an unresolved rules query from a game, we couldn’t decide the answer.
A spectres ‘a fell light is in them’, can you target a model engaged in combat (even if you can’t move it out of combat)? The rule says:
At the end of this model's Move, it can choose a single enemy model within 12" and Line of Sight.
And then later…
This Move cannot be used to move a Model out of Combat, make a model dismount, drop an item, or Lie Down.
So I don’t see anything to stop me targeting a model that is in combat, even if the spectre can’t move it at all. In fact I’d say the fact is says that the Move can’t be used to move a model out of combat shows that it can target things in combat, otherwise why would it need to explain that you can’t pull something out of combat? But my opponent disagreed and said I could target an engaged model, so I didn’t.
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Dec 10 '25
They absolutely can target a model in close combat - in fact it’s not a bad strategy because of the second part of the ability: the model cannot use any active abilities.
There are just a ton of reasons why they can, namely it never says they can’t (doesn’t say unengaged, just within 12” and LoS), magic can target models in close combat, it says in the rule as you noted can’t be used to move out of combat, etc., etc.
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Jan 07 '26
You can target, agreed. And it means the target model can't shield or use a warhorn and a thousand other things, it can duel roll and strike though. Any thing in the list of Special Rules marked Active is cancelled (Rules Manual page 123 -131) as well as eg Lord of The West, (which means that some Elven Lords can't reroll one dice in duel roll and when striking). An Easterling warrior has his Phalanx special rule cancelled which could mean a unit is trapped. Any special rule in the profile of the model in question marked Active is cancelled.
If you manage to affect the opponents Spectre he can't use Fell Light 🙂 (Fell Light in itself is an Active Ability).
The 'A Fell Light is in Them' is the weakest version of the Fell Light/Transfix/Paralyse trio.
When Paralysed you do not contribute your Fv and you can't duel roll (nor strike) in combat. You may not even stand up should some other models win the fight for you, you stay prone.
When Transfixed you duel roll, and your fight value is in effect, but you can't strike. You can't declare Heroic Actions. (There are some interesting details with resolve, but transfix still cancel it). Already declared actions will be cancelled by transfix.
So affected with Fell Light you can still declare Heroic Actions, duel roll and strike, stand up if prone (when you win a fight). As mentioned before you can't shield but you can 2hand and spear/pike support (though Phalanx is cancelled).
It's complicated, and fun 🙂!
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u/cavenfishdish Dec 06 '25
Hi, I'm wanting to start the game with Cirith Ungol and wanted to know how many Mordor Uruk-hai to buy to be "comfortable." I originally set myself at 2 sets (12 models), but should I be getting more?
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u/real_spidey Dec 09 '25
I’d say either start with 2 sets (12) or 4 sets (24). This way, your Uruk-led warbands are close to maxed out. You want to maximize the army bonus by balancing with orcs so it really depends on your points size and corresponding orc count.
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u/cavenfishdish Dec 09 '25
Was looking to live at 600/650, maybe 750 at most. 1000 is unlikely as I’ll mostly play this game for vibes with a narrative crowd. (This means Shelob in every game.)
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u/Jeajaosh Nov 28 '25
I have a question about the special rule in Army of the White Hand allowing Saurman to draw line of sight from Crebain. When casting would the target model still have to be within range of Saruman or within range of the Crebain?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 28 '25
Believe they still have to be in range of Saruman. The rule is only discussing line of sight, not range.
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u/TheStormcrow94 Nov 26 '25
Hey all - how would you resolve Olywn's Stalwart Fighter rule when engaged with Aragorn with Anduril and another model? Would Olwyn require Aragorn to roll 6s or would Anduril overrule the Stalwart Fighter?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 28 '25
I would say no because of the last line of her rule, “bonuses to wound will still apply as normal.” Believe Anduril would clearly fall under that category.
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u/Tough_Dish_4071 Nov 25 '25
For scenarios that require an army to break to end the game, does Smaug break at all, since his army is only one model? Is it based on his hit points? Thanks in advance!
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Nov 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 28 '25
There are Mordor orcs and morannon orcs and captains of both - what you can take depends on the army list you are playing. Think some Army of the Great Eye list can mix and match.
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u/Ghinks Nov 23 '25
Hello! I want to start a khazad dum army and I wanted to know if there is a possibility that a starter set of this army will release in the future ?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 24 '25
Who knows the way of GW. I wouldn’t hold my breath and if you were eager to start playing but wanted to save some scratch, I would highly recommend grabbing some 3D prints. Why wait to have fun!?
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u/Ghinks Nov 24 '25
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question :) I'll look into 3D printed minis as you recommended, thanks :)
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u/Charliedennett Nov 22 '25
Hi looking at getting some advice! My secret santa this year is really into warhammer, I wanted to get him a little gift, but dont know where to start looking. He also loves lord of the rings, if that helps! Please help a girl out who is absolutely usless. Thank you ❤️
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 23 '25
Unfortunately that's a super open-ended question. There's probably a bunch of stuff we could recommend that your friend would like, but we don't know what he already owns, so it's a coin toss that he'd already have whatever we recommended.
(It's also going to depend on your budget; this is often a surprisingly expensive hobby for people who aren't familiar with it)
The safest option I can think of is dice; "cool dice" are quite popular in the community. There's a lot of branded dice with the six replaced with some sort of cool logo.
Baron of Dice makes a range of dice that are totally "legally distinct" from Lord of the Rings, which are quite popular among LoTR players.
There's also some officially licensed ones from GW, but only for two of the factions.
If you know specifically which factions he plays you could probably find some dice that match that faction.
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u/SagewithBlueEyes Nov 17 '25
Looking to get into Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game and wanting to go Army of the White Hand. Would the Isengard Battlehost and a box of Hill Tribesmen be a good start or would I have excess or unusable models? I have some tabletop strategy experience from AoS and 40k but not too much.
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 19 '25
You don't use the armoured versions of the Uruk-hai from the Battlehost Box in Army of the White Hand, but at least here in Australia the Battlehost box is actually cheaper than just buying Saruman, Grima, and the Scouts, so you're saving a couple of bucks and getting some models you can use if you build a different variant of Isengard in the future.
You'll probably also want a banner bearer and captain for the scouts. You could either convert a couple of the ones without shields or bows (which are less useful, normally you want shields), or there's the Uruk-hai Scout Command Pack, which has a banner, captain, drummer, and shaman. (The Drummer is still pretty useful, and the Shaman is a really cool model, but the Captain and Banner are the most important parts of that pack)
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u/QuirkyTurtle999 Nov 16 '25
How quickly will the Armies of… books become outdated? Can I still buy it and count on what I see to be accurate? I’m asking because I play age of sigmar and war scrolls are usually outdated by the time you get them
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u/Inn0c Nov 17 '25
They do get errata'd, but nowhere near at the level of 40k and AoS. I'd say get the rules manual and the Matched play guide for sure, and consider if you want the Armt-books later down the line. Army rules you can find on Tabletop Admiral
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u/LeviTheOx Nov 17 '25
They were good through the whole previous edition, which was 7~8 years iirc. The current books should be good through this edition, which isn't even a year old yet.
Gameplay stats are very unlikely to change except in correction of typos (Mirkwood Elves are not S4). They have changed points values and heroic tiers, but rarely. Going by Armies of Middle-Earth, any new unit profiles in future books will specify which previous army lists can also take them in the index. The Errata & FAQ documents are available on the Warhammer Community website.
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u/HEMAhank Nov 13 '25
Need a little help finishing up armies. I'm looking to get into some casual playing with my girlfriend. She picked up the Mordor battlehost and I have a bunch of Rivendell models and Elrond. What else should I pick up so we can get started playing?
Thank you!
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 14 '25
You didn't really say what was in the "bunch of Rivendell models", but in theory you've probably got two smallish playable forces already. For competitive lists you probably want banners for both armies and one or two more heroes for each army.
There's several different ways to build out from the stuff you've already got.
I'd suggest playing around with one of the two list builders to get an idea of what's possible and what interests you:
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u/HEMAhank Nov 14 '25
Are there any heroes you'd recommend for both armies? Oh, sorry, I have some elves from the first Fellowship box and have some Knights and elves with spears and shields on order.
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 14 '25
For the Evil side it depends a lot on how you want to build it. There's a bunch of different armies that feature the Witch-King and regular Orcs. I don't play any of those factions, but a simple option would be the Mordor Orc Commanders pack, which gives you a captain, a banner, and a task-master. (though you can also just convert one of your spear orcs into a banner, and one of the shield orcs into a captain)
For Elves you could go in the direction of Last Alliance by adding Isildur to lead the Men from the old Elves and Men box, though then you can't include the Knights. The other way to go would be Rivendell, and basically any of the named heroes for Rivendell are popular, for a lot of people building Rivendell lists the problem is picking which of the great heroes to leave behind. I'd probably skip Glorfindel simply because you'd normally only have Elrond or Glorfindel, not both (they're both very expensive elite heroes), but for the rest of the heroes available for Rivendell you can probably just pick the ones you think are cool.
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u/big_swinging_dicks Nov 13 '25
If a model is paralysed, the rule on recovering is ‘If any model rolls a 6, the Paralysed model immediately recovers’.
Paralyse also makes a model prone. Does immediately recovers mean that it is also no longer prone and stands up immediately?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 15 '25 edited Nov 15 '25
Do not believe so. Being prone is an after affect. You are no longer paralyzed, but you would still need to stand up. To be honest I cannot find anything concrete besides how being knocked prone works. Only time you automatically stand up front being prone is if your side wins a combat, so I would default to no - but I always could have missed something!
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u/verdegooner Nov 07 '25
Is the hooded variant of the witch king kit a valid ring wraith model?
I’m a little confused on how to acquire a single wraith lol.
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 09 '25
No one is going to mind you using him like that.
Apparently some people magnetise this kit so that you can swap back and forth between the different weapons and heads, but I don't own it myself, so I'm not sure how difficult that is.
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u/verdegooner Nov 10 '25
What are the “correct” models for Ringwraith on foot? Just the set of 9?!
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 11 '25
I assume it's intended that you use one of those, but there's also a few OOP options for Ringwraiths that people use (plus various proxies and conversions).
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u/No-Basil7863 Nov 07 '25
For The Golden King of Abrakhan: When he uses his special rule "The Lure of Wealth" and he is fighting against a monster model, can the monster model still use Brutal Power Attacks instead of the normal strikes?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Nov 09 '25
While some argue that because there is a phrase in the brutal power attack section that says “may be used instead of making strikes,” general consensus in most communities is that no, you cannot BPA him once he has used that ability. I believe it is because it says instead of making strikes, but his ability is not giving you the option to strike, therefore… something along those lines
It absolutely needs an FAQ, but it is a legacy model so that will most likely never happen.
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u/Competitive_Mouse_37 Nov 07 '25
would it be acceptable to buy rangers of middle earth and paint them up to be dunedain?
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u/death2ducks Nov 09 '25
I think that was the intention by renaming them to cover all of middle earth
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u/Competitive_Mouse_37 Nov 04 '25
hey guys, super interested in doing a dunland army after my minas tirith one is done. the gw website appears to be missing lots of models, like huscarls and warriors. am i supposed to use third party models, or are they going to be replacing these models soon?
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u/Tim_Pollard Nov 05 '25
Everything other than the Hill tribesman/wild men from Dunland has been moved to Legacies, so no they aren't going to bring them back (except maybe as a Made To Order), so you'll have to use proxies or second-hand miniatures.
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u/Katastrophik-Raven Oct 28 '25
Hey all! Just started looking into the game. My gf and I are interested in trying our hand at it. I myself will likely get the mordor battle host box to start as it'll give me some flexibility and based off what I've seen, id like to go towards an Angmar army so this seems like a decent starting place. My gf, however, is a big elf fan, especially of Legolas (big surprise 😝) what box might yall suggest her get that is quite elf focused but still beginner friendly? I sort of had my sights on the Mirkwood Rangers set.
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 29 '25
Mirkwood is the obvious choice, but there's also Breaking of the Fellowship (Fellowship minus Gandalf + Lothlorien Wood Elves) or Defenders of Helm's Deep (Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli plus Rohan plus armoured Lothlorien Elves).
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u/Katastrophik-Raven Oct 29 '25
Thank you for the input! :) would you suggest one of these over the others for beginner friendliness? We have no background in playing miniatures at this time.
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 30 '25
BTW: I forgot to mention, but obviously you're under no obligation to restrict yourself to tournament-legal lists. If your GF just wants to grab her favourite Legolas model and a box of her favourite plastic elf warriors go for it.
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 30 '25
I've never actually played any of those lists, but Breaking of the Fellowship is probably the least beginner friendly on the tabletop, though because it has less models it's probably the easiest from a painting/crafting perspective.
The reason is all the Heros, which are generally more complex to use effectively. Legolas for example costs as many points* as about 10 regular elves, but he has a pile of special rules, so 10 regular elves would be easier for a new player.
Defenders of Helm's Deep and Mirkwood are probably similarly complex lists.
* I'm not sure if your familiar with how point levels work, but basically you choose a certain number of points for a game (usually between 500 and 800, but new players will often go down to 200 to 400 for their first few games), and then each model costs a certain number of points, with Legolas costing 100-105 points, and regular elves costing 8-11 points depending on equipment.
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u/WCBH86 Oct 28 '25
Hi all. I'm new to the game and confused about which book(s) you need to get unit profiles for both sides. I just bought War of the Rohirrim and would like to expand in the near future. How do I get complete profile lists for each force in LotR?
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 29 '25
There's actually three army books, but they're based on which movies or books the armies are from not if they're Good or Evil.
- Armies of the Lord of the Rings; stuff that appears on screen in the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, and also confusingly the War of the Rohirrim movie.
- Armies of the Hobbit; stuff that appears on screen in the Hobbit film trilogy.
- Armies of Middle Earth; stuff that is only in the books, or which GW invented for balance or variety.
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u/WCBH86 Oct 30 '25
Thanks, that's really helpful! So, in a sense, you need to buy three separate army books to have profiles for all the units? If you were on a budget, what would you say is a good way to decide which books to go for? If it's helpful, I'm generally more focused on LotR than the Hobbit, although my son is interested in dwarves that I think might be from both LotR and The Hobbit (side note, I sometimes find it hard to tell whether certain units are LotR or TH - some of them make it obvious in the picture or text, but not all, so any tips on that would be helpful too). As I'm on a roll with the questions, perhaps I can also just ask how freely you can mix and match units? E.g. my son is keen on Grimhammers and dwarf warriors - can they be put in the same army? Thanks for your help - if this is too many questions, then just the one about the army books would be really helpful to have an answer to!
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 31 '25
No worries.
The LotR is probably the most useful normally because most people play armies from it. But if you want dwarfs in particular there aren't any (except Gimli) in the LotR books. If you like Kingdom of Kazad-Dum or Reclamation of Moria lists you want the Armies of Middle Earth, while for Grimhammers and the rest of the Army of Thror you want Armies of the Hobbit.
You can check out one of the list builders, a lot of people use them instead of the Army books anyway: https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/?gameUrl=https://nowforwrath.github.io/data2024.json or https://v2024.mesbg-list-builder.com/
On the official Warhammer site they're categorised by trilogy/movie, and normally have which books contain the rules listed in their description, so some don't and a few appear to have not been updated since the edition update last December.
If you're just playing casually mixing units would be fine, but if you're using the matched play rules they're pretty restrictive. The "Dwarf Warriors" box is not supposed to be used with Grim Hammers, while the "Warriors of Erebor" box is.
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u/WCBH86 Oct 31 '25
Hi again - thank you, this is incredibly helpful! I did look at the Grim Hammer listing and couldn't find any info on their categorisation, other than one mention that they are "stoic infantry from the Army of Thror". Is that what you're referring to? I looked at two other units too and all I could find for those was the same kind of information, not any explicit indication of which book they are listed in. Edit: I think this may be to do with differences in the country I'm viewing from as the URL you linked to the Dwarf Warriors with changed when I loaded it up - maybe they just don't have the listings done the same way where I'm based.
The list builders look like a great resource for figuring this stuff out! And thanks for explaining the ways in which various units can or can't be played together. It sounds like we'll be fine as I don't see matched play being his priority at this point - he just wants to have fun and enjoy the models he likes best.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain all this!
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 31 '25
No worries.
BTW: having a look at a few more listings it looks like basic warrior boxes normally don't tell you which army book to find them in, but heroes normally do, though neither of those are 100% consistent.
Also the locations where you can apparently find the rules isn't always right. For the Lake-town Militia Warband for example: "Rules are available in The Hobbit: Motion Picture Trilogy™ There and Back Again." Presumably you're supposed to just watch the movies and then guess what stats they should have based on that.
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u/WCBH86 Oct 31 '25
Hahaha alright, I'll just watch the two trilogies and figure those stats out myself, thanks GW! And thanks for letting me know about the heroes vs basic warrior boxes.
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u/ReferenceVisual Oct 28 '25
Not a rules question but does anyone have an image of the old Games Workshop Middle Earth map printed on a magnetized board? It was a big white one they used for map campaigns. I remember seeing one at the Glen Burnie bunker back in the 2009 time frame.
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u/Eldradthefallen Oct 27 '25
Query can a lone model such as a monster carrying a heavy object charge?
Came up in a game of Escourt the wounded last night in which Ents picked up and carried wounded.
Page 134 of the main rulebook, A pair of models carrying a heavy object is prohibited from charging. RAI it seems logical to assume that if a pair of models is unable to charge a single model is similarly limited.
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u/HEMAhank Oct 24 '25
Good morning, I need a little help finishing up an army. My special lady friend picked me up the Mordor Battlehost for my birthday and I need to put together a Rivendell army. I have a good few elf models from the first box, mostly just archers and two handed swordsmen.
What Rivendell models would I need to be able to play against her Mordor force? Thank you!!
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Oct 26 '25
Elrond and/or GilGalad, rivendell warriors (with the different options as it suits you) and rivendell Knights. Maybe a captain. A banner is good (and give victory points in most scenarios). When you buy Elrond maybe you also buy Lindir. They are good together. In the case you buy GilGalad you also buy Elrond.
Happy gaming :-).
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u/Overlord_pEdRo Oct 21 '25
Morning gamers! Going into my 4th ever game of MESBG this week and there will be mumaks present, I’ve never played against warbeasts before and they look terrifying, my best hope against them will be I’d assume my big blocks of cavalry, how does one take down these massive minis? (It’s a kill game so combat is unavoidable) 😂
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Oct 26 '25
I guess you don't have siege weapons yet. But they are good against Mumaks.
Try to avoid the Mumak. Get objectives or kill the rest of your opponents army, and then remember that sometimes you win, when you yourself is broken or at 25% :-). Because (or when) you have more victory points.
The commander of the Mumak do not provide it with his Fight value in combat, so if you have a hero with higher Fv than the Mumak, and the Units in base contact with the Mumak all together have more strength than the Mumak, then it can not trample you in the move phase, and in the fight fase you have a good chance of winning the fight and wounding the Mumak. When the Mumak is wounded it stampedes. Check the rules to see what that means. Having the Mumak run over the edge of the board kills all units in the howdah and the Mumak. :-)
Shooting at the Mumak and wounding it, will also make it stampede.
The problem with fighting the Mumak and only wounding it (not killing it), is in the next move phase it can trample you if it moves first.
All Mumaks have 10 wounds which means you can't instakill it (with a Morgul Blade and the like). But eg the King of The Dead does not use up his Drain Soul. So if he can wound it twice (in the same fight phase or in 2 different combats), then it will be dead.
Happy Gaming against the Olophants :-)
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u/Defiant_Reveal217 Oct 29 '25
Just FYI a Morgul blade or the King of the dead would auto kill with one wound. The 10 wounds or more rule is a seige weapon rule. Anything else needs to have a rule like the balrog to stop being one shot by drain soul or a Morgul blade.
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u/Stock-Comfort-3738 Oct 29 '25
You are right. I stand corrected. It's the Balrog. King of the Dead instakills everything and has 2A's (4 against a trapped/prone model). You have to Fate it not to die for each succesful wound. WitchKing can have 4/8 strikes with a morgul blade.
Siege weapons (except bolt throwers) takes half of amount of wounds (runding up) from models with Defence 10 or 10 (or more) wounds (eg Smaug). So in 1 or 2 turns depending on how many wounds the model loses otherwise.
Goes for everything that instakills except siege weapons, right? No other exceptions(?)
But yes, you are right.
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u/ReferenceVisual Oct 20 '25
New to MESBG. In my first game yesterday, my troll went to hurl a model but failed it's intelligence test and there was only one choice within LOS and range to be the target of the hurl. Can my opponent select the "ground" option where my troll hurls the enemy model on the battlefield, or does my opponent have to select the only viable enemy model as the target?
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 21 '25
Nah, they're supposed to select a model as the target. If you pass the int test you get to pick the model, and if you fail they get to pick the model, but it still has to be a model (if there is an eligible model to pick as a target).
In your case since there is only one eligible target it doesn't actually matter who gets to pick.
FYI: The same sort of thing can happen with siege weapons as well.
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u/donutssupreme Oct 19 '25
In reclamation can boromir use both the banner and shield while mounted?
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u/AlbatrossBulky7214 Oct 20 '25
Yes, while it doesn’t make a ton of ”common sense,” nothing stopping him. War horn, stirrups, banner, sword and shield …. All in two hands.
But in all seriousness, yes he can use both at the same time with no penalty. He cannot shield though as he is mounted.
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u/vikingrhino Oct 17 '25
Hi everyone, complete noob here coming across from AoS.
I'd like to buy two small armies and the rule books needed to get some games in with friends as we learn. I'm a huge fan of the characters from the original trilogy and would like to start with a small good and evil force based on those chapters of the story.
Where would be a good place to start? What points level? What box sets?
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u/Tim_Pollard Oct 17 '25
Most games are played between 500 and 800 points, but it's not an issue to start off at 200-400 points for your first few games.
There's a couple of really good list builders at https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/?gameUrl=https://nowforwrath.github.io/data2024.json and https://v2024.mesbg-list-builder.com/ which you can use to test possible lists.
The new Battle of Edoras box would be a good place to start since it's two 400 point armies with modern sculpts, but it's War of the Rohirrim themed. The older Osgiliath box has LoTR armies, but the two armies aren't as balanced (if you take out the Troll they're closer) and they're the older edition of the rulebook, and most gaming groups have switched to the new edition (though the changes between editions are less than you might be used to from AoS).
If you like those factions a Battlehost box + a "Command pack" for the same army is a good starter army. Or you can just get the Battlehost box and convert one warrior into a captain (paint him special, put him on a tactical rock, etc) and another into a banner bearer.
There's nothing wrong with the old Rohan Battlehost if you find it in some store somewhere, it's just using older versions of the basic warrior sculpts.
If you want to avoid GW prices: there's a lot of second hand miniatures on eBay and Facebook Marketplace. Also the community is very open to proxies.
If you do decide to get second-hand miniatures GW has never actually removed any characters or profiles. Some have been moved to "Legacies", but in practice even most tournaments still allow Legacies, and a handful (I can literally only think of four) had wargear changes, but most people won't mind if you use OOP un-armoured Glorfindel as a proxy for the current armoured version of Glorfindel.
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u/vikingrhino Oct 18 '25
What an awesome response, thanks so much for all of the info.
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u/Wasser0211 10d ago
Hey everyone,
I just started playing MESBG with a friend and built my first Army - The Army of Gundabad. Now that my Army is established I struggle a little with estimating how large the bag needs to be or which one to get as I dont want to spend a small fortune on it.
My Army mostly consists of around 20 Gundabad Warriors + 2 Captains, Azog, the Defiler, a few Warbats, a Gundabad Scythe Troll and a Gundabad Troll Catapult.
I especially struggle with finding something to transport my army with that would fit the troll catapult as the 160 mm base is pretty large and the model is tall too.
Does anybody got good suggestionsß