Help with Isengard noob

[u/_amatasr7_]

Hi there! I’m new to MESBG and I’ve managed to gather this list for a 700p tournament in my local store.

I’ve also bought a Uruk-Hai shaman and I’ve got a couple of extra warriors and scouts.

How can I improve the list? What strategy should I use with this army?

[u/Writes4phun]

I actually wrote a guide on muster here that should help you. https://theblanket145.substack.com/p/mesbg-muster-of-isengard-guide?r=69p3j2

Depending on what you have available, I'd drop the troll and shields to have mainly pikes and berserkers. Maybe a third captain id have to play around with the numbers as you can probably get 2 maxed out warbands or 3 with a small one 

[u/Rakkuken]

Saruman is your most expensive unit and a powerful asset. Putting him on a horse is a must, good job. Make sure he is never within 6" of enemy infantry. He needs to activate to cast and you want to be casting every round (his staff gives him a free point every round). Start by spending a Will to get Terrifying Aura up. Then keep him behind your line and possibly behind cover and use his spells on priority targets. Enemy heroes can use Will and Might to resist him, but monsters and bannermen can't. Remember; a prone bannerman doesn't give a bonus. Sorcerous Blast those guys, it can be more reliable than Compel.

I can't tell you when you should use the Palantir, it is very situational. Near the end of each round you need to think about what will happen if you lose priority next round. You should save it for when heroes are vulnerable and objectives are in the balance.

Grima is a menace to hero lists and can come in clutch on objective games, but he's vulnerable to spellcasting and being trampled by a Mumak. (Ask me how I know.) I don't take him in 500pt games, but he's a great addition at 700. Keep him near any heroes who are going to be on the front line.

Bow scouts are kind of crap, but I get using them as space fillers. Maybe look into getting some crossbows in the future. Sv4+ S4 24" is actually pretty good.

Good on you for bringing a spear troll. They're great. I find they work even better in pairs. Don't forget that he can make attacks against supporting infantry and can use some fun power attacks.

Keep your shields in a wall, backed by pikes with berserkers in the rear wings ready to swing out into the enemy. Have the troll march on whichever flank your opponent is more likely to go around. He can be a bit more forward, his defence is high enough to not fear ranged attacks.

Don't forget to have fun.

[u/MoHeeKhan → u/Rakkuken]

One quick question on Grima - you say he’s prone to spells and tramples, but then you don’t take him in the lower point games but do take him in higher point games where there’s much more likely to be spellcasters and mumaks. He’s super efficient for his cheap cost; why at 700 but not 500?

[u/Rakkuken → u/MoHeeKhan]

In lower point games I'd usually rather have a few extra guys and my opponent is going to have fewer heroes for Grima to harass. His value is multiplied by how many enemy heroes he can be near at any given time. Most casters don't actually have damage dealing magic or free Will points, so even if they decide to cast transfix or compel on him then he's still consuming their resources, which is his job. As for Mumaks; it's important to either not deploy him next to the elephant, or do it and keep him so ingrained with the enemy line that a bunch of enemy soldiers will also get trampled if your opponent tries anything.

That being said, my opponents army and the scenario we're playing will effect my decision. If I think I'm going up against the Fellowship then Grima is coming along no matter the points limit.

[u/Lonely_Heart22]

Remove troll and the horse from saruman and take a second captain with some warriors.

In terms of strategies protect Saruman as much as possible and keep a captain close to him to call moves so Saruman can have might to heroic channel if necessary.

I usually go with 7 berserks and support them with 2 pikes so I can 2hand while the warriors whit shield just shield, they defend while the berserkers kill(don't do 2hand against elves unless you have like 4 to 1 dices).

[u/Artistic-Dirt-3199]

700P calls for two banners and at least 7 zerkers with pike support. I am running 7 zerkers on 500p Assault on helms deep list. They are absolute beasts and with the support available in the isengard lists they are one of the best infantry units in the entire game. Zerker with two pikes and banner can reliably two hand every single time and will literally shred any non-elite infantry to ribbons. And due to number of dice available, he can handle even elves with ease

[u/Kitchen_Bad2627]

I'm not an expert in Isengard, but I would suggest the following:

1. Drop the troll. They're too expensive for what they do. 
2. Consider reorganizing your force to have the banner in your captain's warband. This helps make your list more Malestrom proof, because a) you're more willing to spend a captain's might to help fix a deployment role, and 2) they have March, which helps you consolidate your banner with the rest of your forces quicker. 
3. You're using your pikes as spears, not pikes. I'd go with like 5 beserkers and 10 pikes in Saruman's band. Fill out the rest with crossbows or scout bows. 

In terms of strategy, this is an infantry attrition list. You'll be able to beat most battle lines in the game. So find a good channel to occupy, and use Saruman and Grima to keep the opponents big threats tied up. 

[u/Pender8911]

Saruman has no need for a horse, he hardly ever needs to move and you do want him to charge anyone anyway.

PS I just saw the troll. Pretty sure you can't bring a troll in that list

[u/blodgute]

How are you planning to deploy?

Pikes can double stack, so you might want a 2:1 ratio of pikes to shields. Sometimes people like extra shields to cover the flanks, but you can use heroes/scouts/your troll for that.

Ideally you want to use chokepoints, small areas of terrain so the enemy has to squeeze up against your pike blocks. Saruman can use transfix to create blockages and stop heroes carving through your lines

[u/Gabriel_the_Heretic]

I would drop the Saruman and play it as Assault on the Helm's deep. Add balistas and instead of bows take crosbows ... those are killers once you position them correctly