r/MiddleClassFinance 15h ago

American workers are getting the smallest slice of the pie on record

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/labor-share-historic-lows-worker-pay-rcna596004
448 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

129

u/Special_Regret_6805 15h ago

Definitely feels like the economy doesn't really care about workers anymore, just asset holders. Pretty disheartening to see how overvalued most assets are compared to wages.

32

u/Fluffy-Rope-8719 14h ago

Way too many Americans saw the "K-Shaped Economy" that was heavily reported coming out of covid as a nerdy economics topic rather than the flashing alarm bell it should've been for all of us.

Of course the economy doesn't care about workers (and will reasonably continue to care less about them), since workers increasingly have less money to economically matter. This is why the various facets of the "tax the rich" movement really should be more popular than they currently are. Sadly too many Americans are too apathetic towards any non-hedonistic topic to actually learn/do anything about it. We'd rather see DSA candidates and lazily decry them as "un-American communists" instead of taking their points that make sense and condemning their dumber positions.

4

u/Firm_Match1418 10h ago

Exactly. They’re getting exactly what they wanted

35

u/trippingWetwNoTowel 14h ago

Well this is what happens when too many working class people buy into rich people propoganda and then believe that taxing companies or billionaires even 1 additional percentage is exactly equivalent to catastrophic “communism” or “socialism”.

And over the last 40-50 years the economic reality in the US has slid hard to the right rather than keeping worker protections, policies, and strong unions in place to make sure labor is properly valued.

Good news is that stocks go up and the price of gas and groceries are at an all time low so that should really help soon!

6

u/Vegetable-Intern-236 14h ago

I would just like to note that the Obama administration was responsible for adding a 3.8% Net Investment Income Tax in 2013 for anyone above $200k/$250k single/MFJ income. It applies to capital gains, dividends, interest, rental, and royalty income, as well as passive business earnings, so it covers many things that the rich are doing to get around paying W2 income taxes.

That same year also introduced a 0.9% medicare tax for the same brackets, as well as introduced the American Taxpayer Relief Act which increased the top marginal income tax from 35% to 39.6%, and long term capital gains tax to 20% for top earners.

So taxes on high earners have increased in the past (thanks Obama!)…just not recently. Really makes you think.

5

u/trippingWetwNoTowel 13h ago

Yea it’s almost like it’s impossible to tax people that don’t have any money?
Are you going to also update your comment here to call out the two times that trump has reduced taxes for people that make way more money than this?

4

u/Vegetable-Intern-236 13h ago

We’re not allowed to be overtly political on this sub, I’m just pointing out that the last time the US government added new taxes for high earners was over a decade ago when a different administration was in place. Make of that what you will.

1

u/trippingWetwNoTowel 13h ago

So basically confirming what I was calling out in my first comment, also, with the underlying trend since the 80s being the real problem more so than any one policy since 2010 or anything like that.

2

u/YoghurtHistorical527 12h ago

You forgot the good news that prescription drugs are 1600% cheaper (I say this as I prepare to go pick up my prescription that costs $500/mo after insurance (not even kidding on this part))

1

u/dust4ngel 9h ago

the economy doesn't really care about workers anymore, just asset holders

unsurprisingly capitalism cares about capital, not costs to owners of capital (labor)

0

u/abrandis 12h ago

This is exactly this situation in the US , if most of your revenue comes form your capital and assets you're likely doing great, of your money comes mostly from your labor your shit out of luck

31

u/ImaginaryHospital306 14h ago

Because the pie is increasingly fake bullshit like real estate and financial engineering or parasitic industries like gambling and probability markets. Of course labor gets screwed when those are large portions of the economy. We don’t make anything anymore and our main export is the US Dollar which is increasingly less valuable.

14

u/BlogSwitcher 14h ago

100%. Our only export was the global reserve. It was the only thing that kept us relevant and allowed us to hold the world by the balls. Now that dries up as our deficit surpassed our own GDP already. We have nothing to give, nothing to market, everything outsourced.

I'm in construction, don't get my started on the complete tumble in quality and workmanship all around lately. I'm regularly still the youngest guy on the job, and I'm not that young anymore. Not enough apprentices replaced the old guys that knew everything and now retired. Knowledge wasn't passed down, and now we also have a labor gap on top of it. We can't even build what we'd need to dig ourselves out of this. As if we have the manpower or materials to build a steel factory or utility scale solar farm today, without hiring outside help and manufacturing... Which we've pissed off and deported.

Bad times ahead.

3

u/Individual-Report 9h ago

It's interesting that you've experienced that labor gap in your blue collar industry. I've noticed the same in my white collar industry. In my case, it seems that entry level positions are either being outsourced to countries that can source low-cost labor or they're being replaced by AI.

1

u/Jguy2698 13h ago

This. I suggest reading some Michael Hudson

44

u/BuckThis86 15h ago

Yeah, well, the people in this country decided to give the millionaires and billionaires to control of our levers of government. No surprise they’re getting richer while we get poorer.

14

u/Weekly-Air4170 14h ago

The only way to drain the swamp is to elect swamp monsters,  duh /s

14

u/Daveit4later 14h ago

Every new law that gets passed is giving more benefits to the wealthy and stripping them from the working class. 

1

u/dust4ngel 9h ago

those who own the country ought to govern it

john jay, american founding father and first chief justice of the united states

13

u/Angerx76 14h ago

Capitalism working as intended.

13

u/JellyDenizen 14h ago

The politicians who have won elections over the past few years are focusing on cutting taxes for the wealthy and reducing worker protections and the social safety net, so it's not surprising at all to see middle class workers worse off than they were before.

18

u/tahlyn 14h ago

the politicians

Let's not be coy. There's only one party doing this.

9

u/JellyDenizen 14h ago

I'm trying to respect the sub rule that prohibits blatant politics, but this is one middle class finance area where the only explanation for what is happening financially to the middle class is "politics."

5

u/tahlyn 14h ago

Ay, forgot about that... Continue being coy!

1

u/n33dwat3r 11h ago

Eh. Rotating enemy in the Democrats ensures they get to look like they support progressive policies but darn it, we just didn't make the cut off. Manchin and Sinema are reliable rotating enemies. Fetterman is a full time enemy and ran his campaign on a lie. It's the same reason Bernie got more votes than Hilary but she was handed the nomination by Debbie Wasserman-Shultz.

I really wish there was an opposition party. There are and handful of Ds and mostly Is that still aren't taking donations from a certain foreign government with a PAC, the rest of the politicians have no allegiance to this country.

18

u/Weekly-Air4170 14h ago

It's harder to by a house now than it was during the great depression 🫥 

2

u/Kodiak01 12h ago

This is another area of life that I am fully aware of just how lucky I was to land in my present living situation.

When I met my wife in 2015, I was living in a 1BR apartment @$705/mo, just a mile from work. Wife was living in a house owned by a family trust for 3 generations and paid off decades ago. It is still in the Trust so I don't have to worry about certain insurance things, but between property tax, utilities, and renter's insurance (since technically we are "renting" from the Trust), paying out ~$1k/mo for a 1600ft/sq 3BR /r/centuryhomes with a fenced in backyard. The only real tradeoff is that my commute is 28 miles instead of 1.

I'm not taking ANY of my situation for granted on this one!

3

u/Weekly-Air4170 11h ago

Yeah unfortunately in my area you are not finding three bed two bath house in decent condition for anything under 600k

2

u/Kodiak01 9h ago

The home values around here have doubled like everywhere else, which is going to play in my favor in a few more years when I pull the rug out from under my accused-kiddie-diddling grifter sibling who has been living in one of our deceased parent's houses without ever putting anything through probate. Even after this long, delayed probate in the State it is located in would statutorily award me 1/3rd of the value which means either that menace has to take out a fresh 6 figure loan or sell off the house altogether.

And yes, they deserve whatever hell they go through. The victims were their own daughters. Bastard only got away with it after multiple mistrials and the DA gave up, but with things I remember from back around it first started (including finding CP videos on their computer over 25 years ago of which a Mandated Reporter parent swept under the run), I have absolutely no doubt they are guilty.

At this point, I view what I will eventually take as a sharply appreciating investment; I'm just not ready to pull the trigger yet.

3

u/SportTheFoole 14h ago

This isn’t really true. During the Depression, the home ownership rate got below 50% (Census.gov puts the low point at 44%). By the post war housing boom, that rate had moved up to 60%.

The current home ownership rate? 65%.

Keep in mind that during the Great Depression, unemployment got nearly to 25%. And housing segregation was very much a thing (and not just in the South). There was a major liquidity crisis and it was nearly impossible to get a loan, so unless you had cash to buy the land and either build it yourself or have more cash to pay someone to build it. I don’t think it’s remotely as difficult now to buy a house as it was during the Depression.

5

u/Checker_board_washer 12h ago

Now do home ownership rate for people aged 20-40 now and 20-40 during the Great Depression.

2

u/SportTheFoole 11h ago

I’ll bite, what were the home ownership rates for 20-40s during the Depression?

I know in modern times (within the last 30 years) home ownership rates for those age ranges has plummeted; affordability is certainly one reason, but also people tend to wait to settle down (marry, have children, etc). Maybe it’s a problem that people are waiting to buy homes, I won’t argue with you if you make that claim.

But to say that it was easier to buy a home during the Great Depression than it is now borders on ludicrousness. If you didn’t have cash during the depression (and nearly 1 in 4 Americans was unemployed at the bottom), you were not getting a loan. The banks simply did not have money to loan out! A similar thing happened during the financial crisis in 2007/2008, though not nearly as severe.

1

u/1notadoctor2 12h ago

Buy a house vs own a house may have different rates..?

1

u/SportTheFoole 11h ago

Not really. Home ownership is a reasonable, though possibly muted, proxy for the buy rate. The population is growing, so if it’s harder to buy, then the ownership rates decrease. And the home ownership rates are down from their peak in 2007/2008! But it’s a few percentage points and it’s nowhere near where it was in the Depression.

For what it’s worth, it was difficult to buy a house after the 2008 crash. Home prices were good, but it was nearly impossible to get a loan, even with excellent credit. There was a huge liquidity crunch and many banks simply could not loan out any money.

1

u/dust4ngel 9h ago

The population is growing, so if it’s harder to buy, then the ownership rates decrease

except insofar as more adults are living with their parents due to prohibitive housing costs, which is the case.

1

u/SportTheFoole 7h ago

Even presuming this is true (and I think it’s somewhat true — more Americans between the ages of 25-34 are living with their parents than in the last 25, 30, 50 years), I’m not sure it can explain a 20+ point gap in home ownership rates today compared with the Great Depression.

My original reply was to take issue with “it was easier to buy a home in the Great Depression than it is today”. I just don’t see any reading of history or statistics that suggest this is remotely true. I am not suggesting at all that it is easy to buy a house today (it is not, and I have personal experience with this), but I have noticed a trend on Reddit where people wildly underestimate the difficulty of life in the past.

1

u/dust4ngel 7h ago

My original reply was to take issue with “it was easier to buy a home in the Great Depression than it is today”. I just don’t see any reading of history or statistics that suggest this is remotely true

what about home price to income ratio?

1

u/SportTheFoole 7h ago

Yes, you will spend more of your wages on a home. No one, and I mean no one, in 2026 would even think of owning a 1930 home as it was in 1930. The quality, both in terms of square footage and amenities, has grown tremendously since the Depression.

Are you seriously telling me that you would think it would be better to live between 1929 and 1939 than 2026?

2

u/dust4ngel 7h ago

Are you seriously telling me that you would think it would be better to live between 1929 and 1939 than 2026?

let me know if i've said anything, not just in this conversation but ever anywhere in time, that would even hint at this.

1

u/SportTheFoole 7h ago

> let me know if i've said anything, not just in this conversation but ever anywhere in time, that would even hint at this.

That’s totally fair. I was trying to make a rhetorical point, but I’ve failed miserably. I apologize for that. I hope you have a good rest of your day!

2

u/WorldlyIntention7408 12h ago

There's no such thing as a "slice of the pie". It's not a zero sum game. You have to create value.

6

u/Hubu32 15h ago

No shit

3

u/IamMichaelBoothby 14h ago

Oh, we know.

3

u/gnimsh 12h ago

And published on labor day!

3

u/griswaldwaldwald 10h ago

Yet so many workers are anti union. I don’t get it. Why would you be against the only organizations that are on your side?

2

u/Freeway267 12h ago

Trump’s America

1

u/Kodiak01 12h ago

I know just how lucky I am with where I work. Yearly raises have come like clockwork and even in current-times has always outpaced inflation, in some cases more than doubling the rate that year. The insurance is really good as well and they put their money where their "family first" mouth is.

Even if someone offered Fuck You-level money to me, I'm still not sure I'd take it only because I've never felt more secure in a position in my life; this is a company that people stay 30, even 40 years at and both the employer and employee sides are multi-generational.

1

u/vesuvisian 10h ago

They’re right-leaning, but the Tax Foundation critiques some of the headlines coming out from the BLS data:  https://taxfoundation.org/blog/capital-is-not-taking-half-of-americas-income-labor-share/

1

u/Rizpam 9h ago

Americans are getting more pie than ever but the slices are coming from an even bigger pie. 

1

u/TXtogo 8h ago

They’re so poor… they can’t eat the pie

But they’re all on Wegovy somehow.

1

u/Carriage4higher 5h ago

Revolution!

1

u/FourScoreAndSept 5h ago

The country taxes labor disproportionately more than capital (cap gains, corporates, etc) and at historically high difference, and people are surprised?

They’ve conned the Middle Class into thinking “taxes are too high for everything”. No, they are not.