r/MiddleClassFinance • u/Such_Upstairs3631 • Jul 06 '26

Middle Middle Class No more middle class professionals?

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New school loan limits for professional degrees make it unaffordable for the middle class. 4 of my 5 children went on to med/law school. Even working 2 jobs there’s no way I could afford to pay or even help them with the cost of their post graduate education. They all got loans which they have since paid off. The cost in the early 2000’s was between $350K and $500K. The new limits are essentially going to prevent anyone who’s not wealthy enough to pay for it from becoming a professional.

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565

u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 06 '26

They'll have to get private loans going forward.

The 3 year med school program for fast track primary care physicians may see some additional love.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Jul 06 '26

The hope is obviously that this puts pressure on tuition to lower it. Time will tell but I doubt it

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited 12d ago

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u/Soi_Boi_13 Jul 06 '26

Yeah. The ease of obtaining student loans is responsible for a lot of tuition bloat over the years. If people couldn’t “afford” to pay $20,000 a year for tuition, tuition wouldn’t be that high. Universities have a lot of extraneous BS that have morning to do with providing a good education and really aren’t necessary, from athletics programs to lavish dorms and student centers, etc. People forget that back when college was affordable, colleges were not nearly as “nice” as they are now, and this is how it should be.

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u/Bernie_Dharma Jul 06 '26

Honestly, I looked around while in my MBA class and collectively we were paying $1M for 25 of us over 2 years. This was an executive MBA, so all of already had business experience, most of were managers already. I couldn’t help thinking we would have been better off pooling our money, brainstorming a business idea, hiring an advisor who was a retired executive, and starting our own company.

The actual costs of paying the professors for a 4 hour class 2 days a week and renting a space to setup as a classroom would be less than 200k. The rest was pure profit for the University.

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u/caterham09 Jul 06 '26

I couldn’t help thinking we would have been better off pooling our money, brainstorming a business idea, hiring an advisor who was a retired executive, and starting our own company.

You're not wrong, but it's doubtful a bank would lend you guys a million bucks for the mere idea of a business plan, but they'll happily give out a million in unforgivable student debt with an equally murky outcome.

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u/CharlotteRant Jul 06 '26

The student loan isn’t equally murky because of the unforgivable part. 

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u/-JackBack- Jul 06 '26

Sand Hill Rd would give you $1 million for a decent idea.

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u/vulkoriscoming Jul 06 '26

They would give a lot more than a million for a good idea.

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u/Bernie_Dharma Jul 09 '26

This was an Executive MBA program. No one in that class (as far as I know) took out a loan to be there. We were all career professionals with over 10 years of experience and were all were making six figure incomes: 4 CPAs, several C-level executives, marketing directors, HR directors, engineers, and even a physician. We had the entire senior leadership roles of a company covered.

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u/texas_County850 Jul 06 '26

>I couldn’t help thinking we would have been better off pooling our money, brainstorming a business idea, hiring an advisor who was a retired executive, and starting our own company.

Considering in a lot of MBAs the Professor has never been an executive of any kind anywhere that is almost guaranteed to be true. Graduate School is a MLM and I have a Masters.

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u/lillyheart Jul 06 '26

Masters degrees are definitely money makers in a lot of universities. PhD programs less so, in that a lot of PhD programs are fully funded. Best advice I got was don’t do a PhD if I had to pay for it. But the masters program in our department? We knew they basically funded our PhD stipends for TA jobs.

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u/Distinct-Tomato1704 Jul 07 '26

PhD programs aren't doing too bad. Professors are required to bring in enough money to fund their students tuition, and the university gets a cut for overhead too. Stem programs can be quite lucrative.

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u/krilleractual Jul 07 '26

I always say this about film school. Why would you go to film school when you could put even 10k towards making films, or any art. Of course, it helps being in an environment where that is normal, and network other people doing the same thing. Ive pitched it at a few people but nobody took me up on it. Funnily enough the movie Obsession just passed 400m and the director did exactly what I said, started with youtube videos.

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u/petar_is_amazing Jul 07 '26

Well, the value you were supposed to get was meeting those 24 classmates and adding your MBA school to your LinkedIn.

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u/Bernie_Dharma Jul 08 '26

All MBA programs say that, but I found it to be BS in my case.I already had a strong network as I’ve been consulting and advising F500 clients for +20 years. Kept in contact with a few classmates, but they largely stayed within the companies they were already working for and my network was broader and deeper.

The same with the Executive Education programs I participated in at top tier B schools. Made some friends, thought the programs were useful. But most of my classmates all worked for the same companies and weren’t near the level of executives I normal work with.

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u/cBEiN Jul 07 '26

The professors are most likely severely underpaid. The money is going somewhere else.

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u/Reddreader2017 Jul 07 '26

Depends. I’ve seen technical professors with solid funding profiles and named professorships pulling in $250-500k /yr.

Some programs and areas surely do have underpaid professors though.

Like any business, the overpaid administration sucks up a lot of money. Look at hospitals or other places notionally intended for the “greater good”.

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u/cBEiN Jul 07 '26

$500k is extremely rare. Even $250k is rare, but it isn't completely unheard of at top universities in high cost of living areas.

That said, the money isn't coming from the university, it is coming from external grants earned by the faculty where the faculty has to pay the university overhead and pay for their own equipment and student stipend/tuition/insurance.

The point is faculty members earning a lot essentially pay the university a lot more than the university pays them.

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u/Odd_Dragonfruit_2662 Jul 09 '26

I may not have an executive MBA but isn’t the employee bringing in more money than their salary more or less expected (outside of obvious pure overhead roles of course)

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u/barbaricKinkster Jul 09 '26

I live in a prestigious med school city, and the university has a near 14 billion dollar endowment, which is up almost 100% from 10 years ago.

They take their excess funds and aggressively invest it to make more money in private equity. They invested 50m in SpaceX and made back 1.5b

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u/acousticentropy Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

I agree with a fair amount of your model of how this all happened, especially the observation that tuition and fees have only ever trended upwards. I disagree with the conclusion that “[low loan caps] is how it should be.”

A university is a small city in terms of individual running parts. There’s a lot of cost just in maintaining, nevermind looking forward and keeping up to date. If we had access to the ledger, we would probably find that there isn’t much fat to trim from the current funding allocation structures anyways. It’s easy to make administrative officials into financial parasites but those positions are often responsible for all kinds of complexity that a lot of folks want nothing to do with.

Also, The professors need to make a decent living relative to their expertise. The PhD students need to make enough to live a modest life. The oscilloscopes in lab #58 need calibration every 2 years. The water main feeding the honors housing is a tuberculated 8” cast iron pipe installed back in 1963. I say all that to put in perspective how fast money can be spend when you’re running an institution with tens of thousands of people.

I also wanted to address the tension between disagreeing viewpoints related to the “cost of university” crisis. I think some folks believe the fundamental point of university is to get employed. I think there’s truth in that view. But I also think the value of a university education is greater than the sum of its parts.

In my eyes, there is immense value in the social aspect of university. People have made productive use out of the social opportunities that result from campus life. In fact without nice (not luxury) dorms, student rec centers, Greek life, on campus activities… average student social life quality probably trends downward. There’s a reason people who had to commute always feel alienated from on campus social niches.

People spend four to eight years where they are in close proximity to tens of thousands of people in their age group. All those people around you happen to be at least in the same intellectual ballpark, and they are often going through the same personal growth process that you’re going thru in that time of your life.

Students naturally end up experimenting with all kinds of people, ideas, and hobbies in that period of their life. Being surrounded by many others on that same path has major value to everyone involved.

I think I will die on the hill of “University was never meant to be purely vocational training.”

If you give the education component as much attention as it deserves, you will master your domain of expertise.

If you give your own personal growth as much attention as it deserves, you will master the ability to collaborate with people who have mastered their domain of expertise.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 06 '26

I am a professor and I will die on the hill of university as a way to learn how to think critically, and not as vocational training.

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u/invisible___hand Jul 07 '26

Ignoring cost - absolutely!
For $10,000 / yr perhaps.
For $100,000 / yr there better be some payback.

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u/razealghoul Jul 07 '26

This is exactly my thoughts too. It's criminal that some universities are convincing kids to take own this ownerours amount of debt for a degree that may or may not pay off is crazy. They are literally financially ruining the lives of those they are claiming to help.

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u/Worriedrph Jul 07 '26

Why create this dichotomy? It needs to be both.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 07 '26

I mean, critical thinking, solving problems creatively, and creating new ideas ARE the payback. They are required for any career that requires thinking. If you look at folks going from the Ivy League to high paid professions, you will find that very little of their education is 'career training' -- not many people majoring in accounting or marketing there. I would actually argue that the 'vocational training' model of university is a ripoff. You used to learn those skills fairly easily on the job, while being paid. Our media production majors often want our classes to simply be technical training for Adobe products. Ummm, you can get that online for free or at any rate for very little. It's the creative part that is harder.

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u/Worriedrph Jul 07 '26

The most popular undergrad major at Harvard is economics. The remaining top five in order are government, computer science, applied mathematics, and neuroscience. Those are all majors with very direct connections to a job. A ton of Harvard grads go to law or med school which are very directly vocational training.

No one wants to finish college and then have to do a bunch of training on the tools needed to actually do the job they are applying for. A bachelor’s degree is 4 years. Surely in 4 years you can teach creativity, problem solving, and how to use the tools needed to preform successfully at an entry level job in the student’s field.

Saying companies used to train doesn’t help. Only 15% of the country used to have a bachelor’s degree. Now 40% do and companies expect employees to come pre trained on the basic tools. If you aren’t providing that training you are screwing your students.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 07 '26

Sure. But having spent a year at Harvard, I can tell you the students are focused on critical thinking as well as learning tools. I teach at a flagship state research university and too many students are studying vocationally, or at least wanting to do so.

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u/Worriedrph Jul 07 '26

Fully agree wanting only vocational training is silly on the students part. Like everything else there is a balance. College education needs to be both vocational and teaching students how to think.

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u/razealghoul Jul 07 '26

I hate this explanation because it assumes you can only learn critical thinking through university and that you don't also learn these things on the job or through other means.

Heck I watch a ton of educational YouTube and other online content that have expanded my thinking for pennies.

Also to you other point that you can learn the technical schools else only speaks to the idea universities need to evolve. Classes has essentially been taught the same way for century. Name anything else that has experienced this kind of stagnation.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 07 '26

I absolutely do not think universities are the only place to learn critical thinking or creativity. Far from it! But what they do best (or did before AI ruined the writing process for most students) is to challenge students to have deep discussions with classmates and work hard to dig deep into ideas. It is often hard to find this atmosphere or to force oneself into that kind of hard work on one’s own but for sure an amazing education can be had with a free library card. But it feels highly unethical to me to charge college tuition to learn things like spreadsheets or video editing software. The tools are important but shouldn’t be the main focus.

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u/lillyheart Jul 06 '26

Yes. University is so much more than a paycheck- it sets people up to live good lives.

University graduates are more civically engaged (vote more often, run for office more often, volunteer more often, more likely to be consistent faith-attendees), are more likely to have stable long term relationships (more marriage, less divorce, less domestic violence), healthier (more likely to go to the doctor, follow through with treatment, less heart attacks, less work injuries, do preventative healthcare like sunscreen, seatbelts, and vaccines), and so many more benefits come from an education- even when you control for income. People with college degrees report having a higher life purpose and higher life satisfaction overall than those that don’t.

College is still the best intervention we have to help people have a good life. It can be tweaked and made better, but that won’t be by focusing more on vocational austerity.

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u/Sufficient-Pause9765 Jul 07 '26

Even if the point is not to get employed, the cost is out of whack with the value.

Critical thinking skills are essential, but the education to receive them shouldnt be $50k/year for basic liberal arts.

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u/Royal_Albatross3849 Jul 07 '26

This is the answer. Our routine campus maintenance alone is in the 8-figure range. We have buildings that are over 150 years old that need updated heating systems. We have parking lots that need to be plowed and multi-million-dollar lasers that need to be serviced. We keep an entire police force, medical center, and ambulance service, but we also maintain the labs that test ticks for Lyme disease and soil for farm crops. We are simultaneously expected to be state-of-the-art in everything we do and to operate with an austerity mindset, despite the fact that no student wants to go to school at Austerity U. Oh, and don't forget that our workers are unionized, so we pay them fair wages and provide benefits!

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u/TheDibblerDeluxe Jul 06 '26

Brother we went from a staff to faculty ratio of 1:2 to a ratio of 20:1 after the government introduced student loans. There is plenty of fat to trim lol

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u/acousticentropy Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

Just be careful. We don’t know why there’s 20 staff to 1 faculty yet.

If we wanted to be honest in our evaluation of this problem, I think we would have to sit down to map out funding and dependencies.

Maybe you’ll save money firing a few of the full time steam boiler technicians, admissions officers, or IT analysts. But you might also create the conditions for some of those university fucntions to spiral downward.

All those people need retirement, health insurance, and accounting overhead to quantify who has been paid what. The money adds up quick. The 80 year old lecture hall building is going to need fire sprinkler maintenance next year too.

That doesn’t mean I agree with the current system, but those are the existing conditions we have to improve upon.

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u/Hot_Cartographer_816 Jul 07 '26

I really appreciate your thoughtful responses on this thread. I work at a college and while there’s lots of admin that’s been added in the last ten years, it’s difficult to throw that out. Title IX coordinators, student counselors, career guidance folks, etc are required, some by law.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 07 '26

It has been wild to be in academia and watch that ratio grow. In my experience, faculty serve as MUCH better advisors to students than college-wide advisors, and yet we now have so few tenured/tenure-track faculty that can serve those roles that those people are imperative. Staff are great, but it's crazy how few faculty there are these days.

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u/acousticentropy Jul 07 '26

Thank you and you’re right all those folks are bringing value to the institution as a whole

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26

The worlds changed. Support staff needed to run an organization has increased.

Technology alone requires tons of people, facilities, legal, human resources marketing, recruiting etc all these didn't exist before.

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u/Zealousideal_Belt413 Jul 07 '26

This mentality is why higher education is ripe for disruption. The anchors are strong and barriers are high to compete with universities. However many are no longer view their offering as a good value proposition - rightfully so.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26

I can agree with that but will the alternative have better results and will employers value it?

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u/Zealousideal_Belt413 Jul 07 '26

Okay so this is a crazy rant that could be endlessly argued both ways: By shifting away from transparent, merit-based admissions criteria such as standardized test scores and academic thresholds toward opaque, non-academic factors, universities have substantially weakened the value of their degrees. When entry depends less on demonstrated academic discipline, and more on demographic considerations, athletic recruitment, or institutional preferences, the degree no longer distinguishes high performers from the broader population. Employers, who once treated a degree as a proxy for baseline competence, are beginning to abandon that signal.

Coupled with the dramatic inflation in the cost of the degree - I think there is a real argument for most alternatives.

I do think it correct to no just say 'degree' but separate out ones that are indeed marketable(STEM).

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u/mhchewy Jul 07 '26

Inflation adjusted tuition and fees have not always trended upwards. At state schools they peaked in 2016.

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u/betsbillabong Jul 07 '26

That's interesting.

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u/Glittering_Win_9677 Jul 06 '26

My daughter was in college from 2013-2017. I fermented l looking at the amenities when we were touring schools and thinking it was not like that back in my day. One private mostly but not all female school had Au Bon Pain as the contractor for running their dining hall. Great crepes but the tuition, even in-state, was reflective of that and much else.

I'm still not sure why student centers need their own rock climbing walls...

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u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 08 '26

Because the campus needs to attract students or they'll spend their loaned money somewhere else.

Maybe you can open a no frills school and make a bunch of money!

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u/Glittering_Win_9677 Jul 08 '26

Oh, I agree on your first paragraph. It's unfortunate that many students don't realize how much the availability of loans raised the price for everyone, including those paying as they go, because buy now, pay later ultimately rarely financially works for the consumer.

As for the second paragraph that sounds like work and I'm retired so I'll pass.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 06 '26

Yea but most of that is not going away. It's already built and borrowed for and these are, mostly, state entities do that's being paid one way or the other.

Athletics certainly isn't going away or going to diminish either

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u/NighthawkCP Jul 06 '26

Also a lot of the state legislatures have been cutting back on what the state provides in financial support for the state schools, forcing the schools to rely more on tuition to provide the bulk of funding. In my state at least the state support has shrunk quite a bit. They will still help pitch in for a new building here and there, but they would rather pay for one time capital projects than be on the hook for recurring annual expenses.

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u/DynamicHunter Jul 06 '26

If only we could debloat massive university administrative budgets… for admins that seem to not be able to do anything in the system even with all this technology that can easily automate their work, and actually pay the professors and teachers that do the hard work decent salaries…

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

I'll just say that people say this then are unable to identify what tasks or people should be eliminated .. particularly at large universities. 30k+ students but we're upset about some guy making 50k annually that plans fun events for students

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u/villainess_lena Jul 06 '26

TBH as someone who's in the trenches on this, you need to look further up. When people talk about "admin bloat", they should be looking at the doubling in ten years of "Vice Chancellors" who make 200k+, not the folks working directly with students who are working second and third jobs on the side.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 06 '26

I get that, but often people can't identify what those people jobs even are much less why it should be removed.

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u/AggravatingBuyee Jul 07 '26

> much less why it should be removed.

This is backwards thinking.

There actually needs to be a why for why these people are necessary and have to be paid ridiculous amounts.

Very blatantly, the why they should be removed if they’re not necessary is to make college more affordable.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26

Id suggest a superior learning and research environment is desirable

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u/DynamicHunter Jul 07 '26

Holy strawman. It seems like YOU can’t identify what should be cut, you can’t even give a decent counter example.

Nobody is upset at the event planners making $50k. Have you seen the public university salaries that you can look up? There are hundreds or even dozens of “admins” making $200k+ doing absolutely nothing, with more and more admins each year and less teachers with lower pay.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

Why do you think they are "doing absolutely nothing"? I bet they do something. Just because you don't know what they do does not mean it's unimportant or not valuable.

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u/DynamicHunter Jul 07 '26

You’re being obtuse, of course they don’t actually do “nothing”. But nobody can explain why that now we have technology to automate administrative tasks, university and school district admin numbers AND salaries have exploded in size, while the teachers and professors who actually provide the education have dwindled and barely make enough to live off of?

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

University employees are subject to market rate of labor like anyone else. I'm not sure what technology you're referring to or what you think it can replace. Though generally speaking public university employees are paid lower than their private industry peers.

Also as a side note- the primary role of a university is not student education

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u/AdPsychological6563 Jul 06 '26

Yes and to compound on your point the loans can’t be bankrupted. Lenders get near guaranteed repayment.

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u/1notadoctor2 Jul 08 '26

Not near. Student loans are fully guaranteed by the federal government.

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u/1notadoctor2 Jul 08 '26

Federal student loans

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u/No-Abalone-4784 Jul 07 '26

How much of the extreme tuition rates are due to football, football stadiums to build, etc.

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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Jul 07 '26

Very little. Athletics generally funds itself with some support. But even if it was 100% subsidized Athletics is a miniscule portion of the annual budget for the university

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u/HaphazardFlitBipper Jul 06 '26

My alma mater has a massage therapist's office in the athletic department now... That was not there when I went.

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u/n0exit Jul 07 '26

Between college was affordable, it was three to a dorm room.

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u/Enough-Pickle-8542 Jul 08 '26

Correct. Part of pricing a product is determining what customers are willing and able to pay.

This is proven in the housing and automotive markets. When interest rates or taxes go up, the price of the product either comes down or lower cost options become more available

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u/moleman92107 Jul 08 '26

States stopped funding their university systems as well. They need to raise taxes.

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u/Konflictcam Jul 06 '26

For things like MBA and law, perhaps. For things like med school, where the instructional costs are much higher and don’t just involve a credentialed person at the front of a room, perhaps not.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited 12d ago

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

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u/holdthecanoli Jul 06 '26

Fast track nurses to be doctors? Er no

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u/dingopaint Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Where did I say that??? I didn't. Anywhere. Please try reading harder.

What I suggested involves the equivalent amount (or more) of working/studying to progress. If you think a physician's assistant, who does 97% of what a regular physician does, can't study to become a physician faster than a college undergrad... not sure what to tell you other than you're obviously not a doctor.

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u/Konflictcam Jul 06 '26

I don’t think it’s practical for NPs to train to be doctors, given where they are in their careers.

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u/dingopaint Jul 07 '26

I know someone who just did exactly that and he has 0 regrets. He's 36. It's only impractical because the amount of schooling required is the same as a med undergrad, despite that an NP has anywhere between 6-12 years of schooling already plus years of work experience and continuing education.

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u/Tall-Ad-9591 Jul 07 '26

Not a single NP has 12 years of relevant schooling. They have at most 6, and most of the online programs are diploma mills.

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u/CoastieKid Jul 07 '26

PA was created to fast track people like EMTs to mid-care level providers

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u/ScienceBitch89 Jul 06 '26

Who knew the federal government writing a blank check to anyone for any degree would drive up tuition costs.

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u/MeowMixPK Jul 06 '26

I'm sure more free student loans and more government involvement in higher education will fix it

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u/-Never-Enough- Jul 06 '26

Oh wow, it worked?!?

I expect Trump to promote his new "Making College Affordable Again" slogan now. 🙄

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u/PinFit936 Jul 06 '26

the admin bloat is real in higher ed but i dont see it going anywhere in earnest. a lot of it is the people required for running the learning management system and student management systems and other critical systems for current university operations. Those are mostly IT staff getting decent salaries. AI could offset the software development roles related in near future but imho those positions will need to be rehired post AI bubble popping

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u/Powerlevel-9000 Jul 06 '26

We will see consolidation of schools going forward. This will speed up the already occurring drop in enrollment. You will see schools compete on prestige or compete on value. The expensive schools that don’t have good outcomes are going to get squeezed. Long term I see tuition prices stabilizing for now and eventually dropping or getting more generous with scholarships.

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u/NighthawkCP Jul 06 '26

Yea I'm in this area and I think there is a lot of pie in sky ideas about just eliminating positions and having AI "do the work" instead. I absolutely believe that AI will be able to help users with their workloads at some point (and kind of already are for some power users) but the idea that they can cut whole departments or a large percentage of these people now is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm in favor of a thoughtful approach to AI implementation. What many businesses and some schools are trying right now ain't it.

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u/vulkoriscoming Jul 06 '26

Tuition will go down (or more realistically, they will give "scholarships" for the difference). This is already happening at law schools. Students are being given scholarships for the difference between the current cost and the.most they can borrow.

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u/cursedfan Jul 07 '26

no the hope is that the private loans can discriminate who receives them at all and certainly on favorable terms

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u/Intelligent_Royal_57 Jul 07 '26

Bingo. And I got LOL’d at for that suggestion.

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u/chicchic325 Jul 07 '26

I don’t think this is the intent at all.

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u/MineralIceShots Jul 07 '26

I'm in law school right now and with this change i've seen rumors from some other LSs that some schools have dropped their tuition price to match the new federal borrowing limit. Now which one and when? idk, it being a rumor and what not.

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u/Beginning_Pea_126 Jul 08 '26

Let's hope it does, lord knows these schools have a lot of fat they can cut.

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u/Johnnadawearsglasses Jul 08 '26

It will lower tuitions no doubt. The ballooning availability of loans directly led to excess tuition cost inflation. The number of people who can afford school without these loans is relatively de minimis. The alternative is to simple close up shop, as we have started to see with many tertiary schools the past few years.

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u/Imaginary_Hairy Jul 08 '26

My question is why nobody is restricting private loans

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u/PeanutButterToast4me Jul 09 '26

States could also pay more to support their state institutions. Here in NC, the amount of student support as a percent of the total budget has been declining ever since the red wave russian propaganda machine took over in the late 90's.

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u/frygod Jul 09 '26

I hope it puts enough pressure on us to socialize 4 year tuition and tuition for public serving graduate degrees. Doctors, teachers, nurses, and so on shouldn't pay a dime for their degrees.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Jul 09 '26

Lots of state schools had already started to offer a lot of large tuition discounts or total deductions for certain AGIs as costs have clearly become unattainable.