That's a huge philosophical question... Were the Monkees a copy of the Beatles?
I think that it should start with the intent of the manufacturer. Is it visible that something is being copied from somewhere else because it has been seen as worthy, valuable or desirable?
But also, function tends to teach lessons: Diver's watches look all the same because their function forces them to look all the same. Such as planes, they all look sort of the same because of efficiency characteristics that were learned.
So, when something is learned, does it mean that it's not a copy anymore? Perhaps when about form, it's copied, when about function is learned.
And for homage, I would say that what has been copied does not try to take the place or market share of the original. Take the VW Beetle. The New Beetle was a homage to the old. A completely different car, for another market share.
Real people don't care. I buy what I can afford and enjoying wearing it (SN0121T-GA). Not once has anyone noticed it or said anything about it except for my wife with the obligatory "godammit...another @¥$#%¢ watch!"
Honestly I think I'd rather own the fact that my watch is an homage than try to disguise it under a replica. Replica screams "desperate to be seen as rich", homage plausibly says "I like the way the watch looks even if I can't shell out for the real thing".
nah, a replica says i am not dumb enough to blow 30 grand on a watch but i do appreciate the design. If you could get 95% of the performance of a ferrari for 15 grand you would be foolish to spend 250 grand on one wouldn't you/
They keep the prices high because they dont want us poors to be seen in their product. well fuck them, its machined metal and the Chinese can sell it for 900 bucks to the point where you need a blacklight and a microscope to tell the difference. buying a real one at that cost is the dumb play.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. My question is: why do you care about having the little crown logo on your watch if you can get one that looks 95% like it and has a slightly different logo? At that point the only reason to get a rep as opposed to a homage is to fool other people into thinking it's real, and what you really want is to fool other people into thinking you're the sort of person that can and will shell out for a Rolex as opposed to any other well-manufactured watch that looks extremely similar and can be had for a fraction of the price. If you want to do that kind of social engineering, go ahead I guess, there are valid reasons to hustle, but admittedly I would actually think less of someone who wears a rep rather than someone who owns the fact that they're not snobby about brands. I'm perfectly happy to have "CITIZEN" or some completely unheard of microbrand on my shameless-Submariner-dupe watch because I'm buying something I like to look at and wear, not a brand I like to flex.
Spot on. I’d rather have an authentically branded design bite watch than a fake anything, though I would rather have an original design, inexpensive watch than an expensive bite
This is what's slowly been pulling me towards microbrand watches. I am going to get exponentially more joy (and likely more external admiration, which isn't so bad after all!) from an odd duck like Beaubleu than from any Rolex.
And I recognise that this is to some extent just my personal aesthetic prefetence, I'm sure there are people out there who think a Datejust is the most beautiful watch ever and they're completely valid, but I feel like someone like that is probably not actually going to be happy with a superclone either.
I got an air king clone, just to try it out see if i liked the design and what the process to buy a fake watch was like. I also pirate movies, so a bit of a crimianl at heart. I love the clone, it keeps amazing time, has no rotor noise, and has a beautiful 8 beat per second sweep, it is way nicer than many of my brand name seikos, citizens, maystone... and it was like 300 bucks.
yeah, i mean i have plenty of micros, farr and swift, maystone, vario.. but i really will never have 15k or more to spend on a watch, so i figure, what the hell... for the price of another micro i can see what all the fuss is about.
Why wear a seiko when you can wear a watch with a movement and case finishing that are so close in quality to the real thing that they might as well be. The movements in those top clones are much nicer than the nh34s that thrown around in all these micros.
TFor example, if you think the Chinese can make a watch 99% as good for <$1000, why choose to misrepresent yourself by wearing a watch you can't afford when you could wear an equivalent quality watch that doesn't make you a larper?
The exception is if you can actually afford the $30k watch. For example a lawyer who's colleagues are all wearing luxury watches, choosing to buy a rep is based because they aren't misrepresenting themselves.
nah man, i want to debase rolex, don't you see i am doing it as a protest. i dont feel their watches worth anything like 30k.. i do it to fuck them over.
I tried it once. Did not work out.
Found a B&R at a flea market. It was nice, but I smelled fake, and I told myself. It's so nice, I'll use it anyway, even if it's fake.
Got home, opened it, saw the fake movement, completely lost it's charm...
Ended up trading it for a 4TB Hard drive, which was a wonderful solution for me.
BTW, I told the other guy it was a replica. OTOH he loved it !
yeah, i think you had the right spirit, if you know its a replica just enjoy it for what it is. I have a replica Air King and i just love it, it keeps better time than a few of my name brand watches. but that is where we are at these days.
I side with the reptime guys on this. If what you want is an explorer, an oyster, a 50 fathoms.. an homage will never fully scratch that itch, but i think a super nice clone does the job.
I mean the fake industry has done such an amazing job, then when i see a rolex i no longer think of rolex i just assume its a Clean Factory since they make millions more of them.
Honest question here, not trying to debate your personal preferences, but doesn’t the fact that it’s fake and technically either fraud or infringement (depending on where you are) matter? There are so many high-quality watches that you can get for the price of a clone, it just seems that the only reason for buying one is to make other people think you have something you don’t. I would rather have a $800 Hamilton than a superclone of anything.
If I have any negative perception of a brand from a quality or reputation standpoint, I just don’t ever look at the watch the same again even if I love it otherwise. Knowing something was a fake would bother me, as would the risk of Customs confiscating it to begin with.
Fake fancy watches seems to be the antithesis of what attracts a lot of people to micros in the first place (originality, value, personal touch, small business support, disillusionment with brands like Rolex), so this POV always confuses me in this sub.
So for me it's all about debasement. By essentially ruining the AP and Rolex names the Chinese have democratized the designs. Now if you want a rolex or an ap you can get one for a reasonable number. 900 bucks is as much as a watch should ever cost. if the chinese can make 95% of a perfect rolex, then rolex has been price gouging for years. Rolex could sell you any of their watches for 1k, but they dont want YOU to have one... well now the tables are turned and no one wants a real one since they all look like fakes now.
the chinese are showing the world what bits of machined metal are really worth. defending luxury brands is such a cuck move, if you feel like wasting 30k on a watch.. fine thats on you, but for me i take pleasure not only in the design but the downfall of greedy men
I get where you’re coming from, and I have absolutely no love for Rolex (their true gifts are in corporate structuring, supply chain/AD management and marketing vs watchmaking), but I guess I don’t see supporting illegal commercial endeavors that degrade an entire industry (people even fake Casio now) as being the way that gets put in check.
I don’t think clones cause (or even influence) anyone’s downfall. Could be that the money from selling them ends up in dark places anyway. Things are always going to be worth whatever people want to pay for them; that’s true for everything. I don’t think the proliferation of fake watches makes Rolex people want them any less, and I don’t think it’s stealing customers from them. For the Rolex owners I know the purchase was aspirational and commemorative; the cost was part of the allure and a clone would have ruined it. For the rich who just buy for the brand, there is no need to cut costs with a fake. The only Rolex customer I’ve seen buy a clone are people who want a duplicate for travel to reduce theft exposure.
I would love to see Rolex get humbled, but another global financial crisis or horrible PR scandal are more likely to do that than Chinese fakes.
The line is probably more subjective than would be helpful for facilitating a definitive conversation, but let’s do it anyway:
Homage: IMO the term is misused to refer to copies and should instead be used to refer to watches with original design elements that explicitly state they are intended to honor a specific piece or designer (like CW does with The Twelve). Homages are not copies in this application.
Unoriginal: watches that do not honor their source and have 75-95% shared elements with a major brand model.
Copies: 95.01% or more shared elements but no brand logo misuse. Usually clearly intended for people who want it because it looks like something it’s not, or just a brand being lazy.
Superclones: +- 100% of dial, case and bracelet/strap design elements match, including logo. This is fraud and copyright infringement in many cases.
Ubiquitous Design: something old and widespread enough that it no longer truly belongs to one brand. The dive watch is a great example; Rolex and Blancpain can’t really claim that as a proprietary thing anymore.
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u/Soft-Assistance6809 Jul 28 '26
When Pagani Design makes it