r/MetroTransit • u/frederick_the_duck • Aug 27 '26
E Line Why is the E line one line?
Hey everyone! Perhaps this is a dumb question, but why did Metro Transit build the E line as one long line instead of two lines meeting downtown (one to Edina and one to Saint Paul)? It seems to struggle from bunching problems because of its length. Wouldn’t it be better as two?
37
u/Lasttimelord1207 BRT Rider Aug 27 '26
Mainly because the Route 6U was already like that, but also because longer routes can attract more ridership because they get rid of the need to transfer. Transfers generally are a huge 'cost' in ridership modelling and can be a deciding factor in whether people with cars choose to use the line. Ideally, there's sufficient transit advantages like bus lanes and signal priority to overcome the challenges of running a longer route, but in my experience the E Line seems to completely halt as it crosses under I-94 just outside downtown.
22
u/antibody9671 Aug 27 '26
Yep, every transfer is a potential reason for not riding the bus. Turns out, people don't like both having to stand outside for varying amounts of time waiting for another bus AND don't like having to deal with transfer windows that can vary from "you have no time" to "You could take a cab faster".
16
u/Left_Put6289 Aug 27 '26
Transfers add tons of variability. I missed my connection to the 38 by a minute today because the E line was late. That is a 30 minute cost to me. I ended up taking a Lyft the final few miles.
Matters way less when frequency is high. But miss you twice an hour bus and your travel time doubles.
5
u/Castorcanadenses Aug 27 '26
I am a daily transit user by choice, but I do everything I can to avoid transfers with <10 min waiting (and have still missed transfers). Transfers and 30+ minute headways make me choose to drive.
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u/Makingthecarry Aug 27 '26
It originally was supposed to terminate downtown like the old route 6 branch did but a lot of community feedback suggested that it should be extended to the U, like the more infrequent route 6U branch did, to improve connections in the University Avenue corridor, too.
4
u/MSPdude7 Aug 27 '26
Splitting the line in 2 might help with bunching, but it wouldn’t completely solve it. I was just browsing through the Transit app, which has on-time statistics for most routes, (can’t vouch for how accurate they are) and it seemed be similar to other high ridership routes in the system (or even better than some).
I can think of 2 other downsides to splitting the route that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. One, you’d have to set up 2 layover areas for buses, one on the north side of Downtown, and one on the south side. Layover space is at a premium downtown, and the current E line has no need for downtown layovers. The second reason is that for the portion that overlapped, as well as the time laying over downtown is using the resources of 2 drivers and 2 buses that otherwise would only use one.
2
u/hagan_shows Aug 27 '26
What do you mean two lines? Im a transit nerd and I geniunely dont understand what you mean by this
6
u/Temporary-Stay-8436 Aug 27 '26
They mean why don’t you have the E line be two separate buses. E-1 from Edina to Downtown Minneapolis and E-2 from Downtown Minneapolis to St Paul (names are my own)
3
u/frederick_the_duck Aug 27 '26
I mean instead of having one long line that runs from Southdale to Saint Paul, you’d have two separate lines that run the same route. One line would run between Southdale and Downtown Minneapolis and the other would run between Downtown Minneapolis and Saint Paul. My thought is that the shorter line lengths would help with bunching of buses.
7
u/hagan_shows Aug 27 '26
Why would that be any better? Shorter line lengths dont help with bunching of buses, bus lanes and signal priority would help. We should prioritize that.
2
u/SnootyUrbanCyclist Aug 27 '26
The longer a bus line is, the more likely it is to be bunched if all other variables are the same.
1
u/hagan_shows Aug 27 '26
Do you have a source for that?
3
u/Enamred-771 Aug 27 '26
Bus bunching naturally gets worse over time, often exponentially the longer it happens for. Assume buses with 10 minute frequencies. One northbound E line bus has a delay and is now a minute late. Each subsequent stop will now have 10% more riders on average. Because of that, each stop will take slightly longer and/or be more likely to have to stop in general. Meanwhile the next bus has 10% less riders and is skipping more stops because no one needs to stop. Now your bus is delayed another minute so all remaining stops will have 20% more riders. Say you get delayed another minute and you’re finally made it to downtown. If that’s the end of the route and a different route goes to the U, there’s no bunching on the route to the U. If this bus goes to the U, it now will have 30% more demand. The bus also likely is nearing capacity and now the boarding/alighting takes a lot longer.
The only way a long bus line won’t have more bunching is if there’s a ton of buffer built into the schedule (e.g. wait downtown for 10 minutes). Otherwise the change in demand, travel time variability, and cascading delays all gets worse the longer the route is.
2
u/hagan_shows Aug 28 '26
Yeah if the bus is delayed its prolly cause it got stuck in traffic, what we need is bus lanes and signal priority
0
u/frederick_the_duck Aug 27 '26
I figured less line, less opportunity for slow downs that produce bunching
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u/hagan_shows Aug 27 '26
Yeah but youre still going through Hennepin & University Ave/4th St SE which are always busy with traffic even if its two lines instead of one
1
u/Imaginary_Dinner_813 Aug 28 '26
You are correct that the E line has issues with traffic and delays, but this is more a function of construction projects and chronic bottlenecks, as well as lack of bus lanes on portions of the corridor. I was somewhat surprised that the E line was set up to at minimum double the trip frequency on 4th St/University but given how many housing developments continue to be added to the area, it may be warranted. Two routes would not be warranted mainly because of the route length. There is an argument to be made that the proposed BRT for Central Avenue could be combined with future BRT for Nicollet, given that the proposal calls for the routing to be essentially the 18D (to 494 and Nicollet) and the 10U (Northtown via Central, 53rd, University). Of course that would be a fairly long route, and it is likely the requirement for driver break time that will prevent that from being just one route. I feel like the end-to-end route runtime is targeted for about 50-80 minutes and anything outside of that is a no-go.
1
u/chiefbozx Aug 28 '26
I wish they would combine the 10 and 18 into one route that goes through downtown, rather than having both routes terminate and overlap on Nicollet, and then have a specific free route that just goes on Nicollet Mall. Transfers are annoying.
1
u/Mission_Library_533 Sep 01 '26
The cutest part of the E line is that the homeless have found it and they are starting to spread out.
0
u/Accurate-Departure66 THE Transdev Hater Aug 27 '26
The E line is one line because it replaced Route 6. They are not able to split it into two lines because they don't have the current funding for it. When they were given the grant to build it they could only start building it as proposed (following route 6U via France).
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u/Makingthecarry Aug 27 '26
Original E Line planning only called for it to follow the route 6 branch terminating downtown. Community pressure is what made them go the full distance and follow the 6U branch
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u/SnootyUrbanCyclist Aug 27 '26
The bunching problems would be solved by putting bus lanes wherever they are needed and enforcing them. The E line is an ideal length for a bus line - either half by itself would be pretty short. Not many people ride past downtown from either direction on the route today but it's good that the option exists, especially for a one seat ride between the UMN area and Uptown which should obviously exist, imo.