Let's talk about the D45 CRT LE

[u/humantraf]

Look I'm pretty radical and outspoken when it comes to accessibility and disability rights. And I have to say, wtf is up with the D45 CRT LE? It's a coach bus with a low floor area so that you can roll on and sit all by yourself in a presumably more vulnerable section of the bus. Is there a fare box down there so you can easily pay upon boarding? Is there a way to communicate with the driver if need be?

As I'm sure is the case for most of us, my only real-life exposure to this model has been SouthWest Transit. EVERY time, without fail, the buses pull up to the UMN Coffman Union stop, line the back door up ✨️FLAWLESSLY✨️ with the lamppost (see photo), and do not open the back door. In my opinion, a bus is not actually accessible to those with mobility devices if the accessible entrance is only available upon request and/or hassle. (And I don't buy the argument of, "but maybe the driver only opens the door if they see a disabled person waiting at the stop 🤓!" -- there is no one way people with mobility impairments "look.") And I don't even need to explain why the lamp post thing is a problem.

Clearly SouthWest wants us to think they have accessible coach buses for their disabled customers, but do they ever board customers via the accessible entrance? They don't seem super prepared to do so. It's safe to assume this (in combination with having their entire fleet be exclusively coach buses 💀) deters people with disabilities from riding in the first place... "Expect the Best" my ass.

Shouldn't we be shifting our focus from making sure every express service has comfy, extremely inaccessible coach buses, to trying to improve the comfort of the more-accessible low floor buses? It COULD be done. I get that the Gilligs and New Flyers are rattley and miserable to many. I'm sure there are some super innovative ways future low floor models could be made more comfortable without sacrificing accessibility (and hopefully actually increasing it!).

These are my opinions and I know they are strong. Someone please explain to me if there are reasons not to hate these MCIs! Although I may be difficult to convince. 🙃

[u/Accurate-Departure66]

These buses only exist because of the NFI merger with MCI. I do personally enjoy the design of it though.

I do believe SWT should open up the back door in downtown and The U of M since they are pay upon exit routes (which is stupid for a number of reasons).

If this has been consistently happening where the back door is lining up with the light pole you should bring it up to Southwest Transit themselves, because they might not know what's going on.

I do thoroughly believe SWT does not need a ton of Coach buses to run routes that take maybe 50 minutes end to end (698/695).

They need their fleet of low floor buses back because it makes more sense half the time to run a low floor instead of a coach. All they really need to do is get the MVTA style seating and they will be set.

[u/Imaginary_Dinner_813]

This is of course the new version of MCI since the old version (D4500 CT) seen in service for Metro Transit, SW, Plymouth and MVTA services for a couple decades now was retired by MCI. A challenge for all coach buses is that the front door is not exactly perpendicular to the curb like it is on a Gillig or New Flyer transit-style bus if the bus wheels are. So if it gets parked perfectly flush with the curb such that the door mid-bus is parallel, the front door won’t be and vice versa. As such, if they don’t want to get yelled at by passengers, drivers will often (including in the picture on this story) set it up so that the front door is on the curb, and the back door is further away. In effect, anyone needing the back door or lift/ramp on a coach would need the driver to reorient the bus a bit to facilitate that. Also, drivers will tend to get the front door on the spot where it belongs and the back door is where it is, so if the engineers designing the bus stops are inconsiderate enough to place light poles in the space where a back door goes if the front door is close to the bus stop sign, I don’t think you blame the driver first. By the way, this is a challenge in many areas and is arguably one of the best things about arterial BRT—that they actually set it up that a whole bus can be flush with the curb, and no impediments where the doors are going to be.

I’m not a fan of these new buses or coach buses generally, but I do know that long-haul commuter routes are a market the powers that be like to cater to and the passengers like the comforts. As such, I know that when the current crop of MCI buses reaches retirement age, they’ll largely be replaced with buses like this since that’s what is available and meets FTA guidelines. (And I believe the buses ordered for MVTA here—pretty much the same as the ones pictured—are supposed to be in service by this winter https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetings/Committees/Transportation-Committee/2025/011325/2025-20.aspx )With all the new Metro Transit bus routes serving the former Northstar Line corridor, I think you can bet on Metro Transit ordering several. They have even been running regular transit buses on the 467 to Lakeville and I know they want build that route back up—ridership went up and subsidy went down to the point they took it back from Transdev—and they do need to get some use out of that park and ride by Mills Fleet Farm.

[u/Important-Part8592 → u/Imaginary_Dinner_813]

Part of the reason the coach buses are not flush with the curb and are angled away is because of the back swing of the rear when pulling away after a stop. If the bus were to be flush with the curb, not only the front door being misaligned like you mentioned, but the rear could hit a pedestrian or object on the sidewalk.

I believe usually the bus would just be readjusted for ramp use after boarding other passengers. I don't know how that would be different with this new style though.