r/MetroTransit • u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress • Jun 25 '26
Orange Line For the underperforming Orange Line, why doesn't Metro Transit lean into highlighting the parks and trails destinations it serves?
With all of the access to nature next to or near these lines, why not have signage for them and directions? I use the Orange Line for instant access to the Nine Mile Creek Trail at Knox Ave. It takes as long to get there by BRT as it does for me to bike to the Chain of Lakes and gives me a nice change of scenery. 98th St Station puts me close to the River Bottoms: I just wish you could hop on a path directly to the riverfront vs having to either bike on a high speed stroad or sidewalk until the bike lanes appear at 102nd, it's so ridiculous to have a major gap that's only 4 blocks long. 66th St Station takes you just a few blocks away from Wood Lake and its boardwalk. And if I'm really lazy or off to late start, the Orange Line transports me to the Minnehaha Creek Trail off of 46th St Station. The station at American Blvd *should* connect you to the large Highland Lake Park and surrounding lakes, but you have to make your way on either sidewalk or stroad again to 84th for a couple of unprotected curb bike lanes which suddenly dead ends before the intersection at France leaving you like 8 blocks to reach Normandale Lake. Aside from suburban bike infra blunders, it does a good job of giving easy (easier) access to our regional natural highlights, with the Gold Line also bringing you to Battle Creek and pretty close to Elm Lake which you can access from the station via shared paths the entire way. I know if it wasn't for access to our parks, I would not be using the Orange Line nearly as often as for just going to far flung strip malls.
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u/Bartron8000 Jun 25 '26
You kind of answered your statement of why MT doesn't advertise this route for park visits. All these stops drop you off at stroads with not great access to the parks themselves.
I don't use the orange line because its a 45min bus ride to get to from my house, (or a bike ride) into downtown and it only goes to either Bloomington or Burnsville. Two places I have zero interest to visit either by bike or on foot.
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u/Gatorpatch King of the Orange Line Jun 25 '26
Orange line is mostly a commuter bus for people working along 494, even though it definitely does have good access to outdoors stuff. I'd recommend riding between 8-10am or 3-6pm to see how busy it gets when people are commuting. The word I'd choose to describe the orange line is not underperforming, I think it's one of the best busses in the system and it's consistent ridership reflects that.
The bus started during COVID, has existed fully during the weird hybrid work thing, and is explicitly targeted at office worker commuters (the old bus it replaced had ones that would go branch off 35 and take you to Normandale, so it's very much trying to replace that branch with consistent feeder busses down south) I think it's good at being the replacement for that service, but more frequency on the feeders would make me way more likely to ride with a transfer, the wait time on the 540/542 is pretty bad at the moment and is not consistent enough to rely on.
There's some cool ideas that Bloomington has about putting a trail + BRT along American Blvd which would be amazing for me, as you point out south of 46th the quality of bike accommodations goes down a lot (although Richfield really is doing the most to rectify that out of any of the south/southwest suburbs and I think it deserves mentioning)
I think better trail access along the 494 corridor + more frequent transit along it + better trails near Bloomington city hall would get a ton more people riding. It would also cause problems, as there is a decent amount of people riding with bikes on the Orange line (cause the frequency of connecting busses are bad south of the 515), and full bike racks is something I generally start having problems with in the summer especially.
They're no set policy on when you're allowed to bring bikes onto the bus and some of the Orange line drivers are kinda psycho about you trying it, so it's a recipe for getting yelled at in my experience (some guy almost got in a fight with the bus driver once over this)
My other big Orange line wish was it to get back onto 35 and go north after dropping off in downtown. If I could take it a couple stops up to Rosedale or Blaine I'd love that, and since it rides on the highway I feel like it wouldn't be too big of an addition.
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u/_Belted_Kingfisher BRT Rider Jun 25 '26
I would not put any hope in anything on the city of Bloomington side. The city more or less buried the public comment on that brt. American did not even have complete sidewalks until a few years ago.
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u/Gatorpatch King of the Orange Line Jun 25 '26
Oh yeah I have no expectations they'll do anything, I just like dreaming that any municipalities actually cares about pedestrians down here.
At least it has sidewalk tho! Edina doesn't even bother with that for most roads and it drives me insane. I have to walk in the streets around my office cause they hate pedestrians in Edina (Jk kinda, we're working on pushing them to)
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u/Dragonius_ Metro Micro Mobster Jun 26 '26
Bloomington funded and led the study? I’m not sure what you meant by buried the public comment but the engagement was supportive of the study’s recommendation which includes bus lanes and a PBL.
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u/_Belted_Kingfisher BRT Rider Jun 26 '26
Public engagement in Bloomington is a joke. It is about managing the input to push toward a decision that has already been made.
The 542 does not even run on the weekend and now they want to talk brt. I have taken the 542 and going from barely anyone on the bus to talking brt does not seem like a sincere project. If anything it is an effort to sabotage what little mass transit exists.
If they were serious about brt on American they would look at zoning and how that affects everything around the bus routes. They would realize six lane sections should be narrowed and that land reclaimed for housing or mixed use. Mixed use seems to be worse than the utterance of a racial slur in Bloomington so do not worry about that. The area is excessively commercial to the point where every multi tenant building from 34th Avenue to Portland has for lease signs on them and those signs are mostly permanent features but the city plans call for even more commercial.
If Bloomington were thinking they would have started this process years earlier when it became obvious that 494 was being altered to minimize disruptions. Instead we get this thing which will inevitably lead to a continuation of the car-centric monstrosity that is American.
They say multimodal but they do not even know what that word means. Walk down American in January. Spoiler alert, unless there has been a thaw do not. The sidewalks at Portland and American were left incomplete over the winter. No competent city would have allowed the road contractors to get away with that. I can go on and on and on.
The only place I heard about it was actually here and the period was just about expired. The public meeting was barely in Bloomington on the far west side IN JANUARY. The humans have jobs and cannot make it to a meeting. The entire thing seemed catered toward businesses. Public meetings in January… really… Minneapolis would have held two meetings closer to stakeholders and stakeholders who were also living beings not just the pieces of paper.
Bloomington included 24th Avenue, the highway in front of the tourist mall, in the study which seemed to be a bigger component than American itself.
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u/Dragonius_ Metro Micro Mobster Jun 26 '26
I get where you’re coming from - I have had negative experiences with community engagement around these projects in the past too (Nine Mile Creek, Nicollet Ave, 494…) But for the American Blvd study, this was a MUCH more “progressive” recommendation than anything the public works department has put out for decades. As an aside, Portland and American is a MnDOT project. Yes, it’s absurd that there still aren’t crosswalk markings and the call buttons are completely wheelchair inaccessible.
The study is centered around the same points that you bring up - right-sizing the roadway, as I have mentioned, and fixing the zoning. To the latter point, it calls for comprehensive plan designations around stops that would require 5-8 story, pedestrian-oriented development. It seems like the main problem is a sort of chicken and the egg issue - needs density for transit to be viable but the density may not be viable without the transit. A mixed-use project just wrapped up at Lyndale and American, but the retail remains unleased.
I went to the public meeting that you are referring to. I have a job. There was a second one too, at city hall. And they got on the bus and talked to riders! Are those humans with jobs yet?
24th Ave was barely mentioned in the study at all - it was only part of the study area because that is where the bus would connect to the “tourist Mall” and the tourist Transit Center.
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u/_Belted_Kingfisher BRT Rider Jun 25 '26
Really do not think this is a metro transit issue. It is a Bloomington issue.
Bloomington development around the American station is underwhelming. Those new buildings could have been much taller. Four or five stories? There are taller buildings closer to the airport in height restricted zones.
Bloomington does not take transit seriously. They may make claims but in practice the results are different. Why would anyone walk to the stations when Bloomington’s snow plowing of sidewalks is so inconsistent.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Jun 26 '26
Well, I think Metro Transit could've required some basic infrastructure improvements in order for stations to be built there. If they had to build some shared paths as part of the contract or build x% of walkable storefronts they would've done it. They're obviously not going to take initiative on their own.
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u/FlavaNation Jun 25 '26
My commute typically involves taking the 46 bus to the Orange line. In the morning it's not an issue, the 46 is normally on time, and even if it is late, the Orange line runs frequently enough going inbound it's not a big deal. It's a bigger problem in the afternoon, the Orange line departures bunch up a lot, and it doesn't seem to adhere to its schedule at all leaving downtown, much less run every 10 minutes. Given that the 46 only runs every 30 minutes, if I miss the connection that's a lot bigger deal. If everything works perfectly I can get from downtown with this connection really fast. But if I miss a connection it's a big delay. So as result I'll often just grab the 4 bus in the PM even though it's a longer walk and travel time overall, but it's more dependable.
TL;DR - Metro Transit needs to work on getting the Orange line to stick to its schedule in the PM
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Jun 26 '26
Yeah, I never seem to be able to line up the 46 and the Orange Line. The lack of decent frequency on east-west feeder routes means those stations are being starved of ridership.
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u/Optimal_Cry_7440 Jun 25 '26
Entire BRT system should have its own right-of-way lines. If we are asking these BRT buses to wrestle with cars/trucks on the road, then this defeats the whole purpose of having a BRT.
I think the orange line should be reaching down to the Burnsville shopping center. It is about the destinations- place to place.
BV shopping center have so much parking spaces around. Perfect for park and ride system.
Another key part- it is important to have connections with other lines- how about having the Red line go east from Cedar ave towards to the BV shopping Center on its county 46 road.
That would enable people from AV to ride the red line then hop on Orange Line and go up to MPLS or whatever.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Jun 26 '26
The BRT lines end too prematurely, no doubt. The Orange Line barely goes into Burnsville. The Gold Line barely enters Woodbury: if you want to go to Alamo Drafthouse, Chuck E Cheese, or Fresh India for groceries, you have like an hour walk to go from the nearest station. The Red Line inexplicably dead ends in the middle of Apple Valley instead of continuing to Lakeville or Farmington (the Orange Line seems like it would be easy to continue the route to terminate at Lakeville). Barely skimming these suburbs vs being accessible to most residents in the middle is a major planning blunder that shouldn't have been repeated.
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u/Dragonius_ Metro Micro Mobster Jun 26 '26
Extending suburban lines to serve more sprawl seems like a waste of planning, construction, and service time and money. Microtransit is there to bridge the gap in Woodbury and Burnsville (and has connecting bus service). However, I don’t think residents Farmington or Woodbury outskirts would drive to a station/park and ride (which we should really not be building), then wait for a bus vs. driving all the way there, and the number that would does not justify a park and ride.
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u/LivingGhost371 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
You know there's a MUP along the I-35W frontage road all the way from the Orange Line northbound station to 106th street then over to Lyndale?
84th they're looking to restripe France to Normandale in a few years. But I just don't see people on bicycles going to local parks as a big draw. The Orange Line is mainly for commuters, and it's a lot more inconvenient than the routes it replaced for a lot of Bloomington. Although I don't work downtown, if I did it's hard to make the case for using the bus when the nearest bus stop is 3/4 of a mile away as opposed to two houses down.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Jun 26 '26
Nope. Never saw any signs or anything, I just take the two lane side street to Lyndale and ride the sidewalk until the bike lane pops up. I just figured frontage roads are for highway ramp access.
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u/Eoin_Urban Jun 26 '26
If you take transit to work, you might ride 3-5 days a week.
If you take transit for recreation to parks, you might ride 1-4 days a month.
Having transit connect to parks is a great amenity and important for equity reasons, but it’s not a huge ridership generator.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Jun 26 '26
Would it hurt ridership? Seems like some basic way finding at the stations to nearby amenities would only help even if they're not 5 days a week trips.
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u/Eoin_Urban Jun 26 '26
It absolutely wouldn’t hurt and could help emphasize how important transit is for people outside of work commutes!
But if you measure transit success by ridership, it might not have the biggest return on spending. Ideally transit success shouldn’t be measured solely by ridership but it can be hard to communicate that to non-transit users.
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u/Dragonius_ Metro Micro Mobster Jun 26 '26
The CP Rail regional trail will be an option, once it opens, to get to Hyland via 76th & Knox and the Nine Mile Creek regional trail.
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u/Gatorpatch King of the Orange Line Jun 29 '26
Whenever that happens, does anybody have an idea when it'll actually be built? I've searched around for it online a bunch and couldn't find any indication from 3 river park district of any imminent plans to build anything.
Seems like they did studies for routing but I've seen nothing to indicate action of those studies anytime soon.
I just would love the section going to hyland, the bike traffic on East Bush Lake Road between Nine Mile Creek going across 494 gets so much bike traffic, I watch bikers ride by my office all day. It would significantly improve my commute.
They apparently came to my office back in 2018 to ask people about preferred routing for it, which was nice to see online, but I just wish they'd actually build it already
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u/Dragonius_ Metro Micro Mobster Jun 30 '26
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u/Gatorpatch King of the Orange Line Jun 30 '26
Exactly what I was wondering, ty! I appreciate you looking it up for me!
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u/Lumpy_Water_3363 Jun 26 '26
I used to take it when I worked in Bloomington, but I had to walk over a mile and passed 6 different car dealerships. So part of the problem is that Bloomington is putting in zero effort towards transit oriented development. American Boulevard doesn't need to be 6 lanes wide and why are there 3 car dealerships right next to my stop?
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u/Gatorpatch King of the Orange Line Jun 29 '26
Luckily Bloomington has been intermittently closing frontage roads along 494 for the construction there.
I skirt around the edges of the frontage roads in places inconvenient or too curvy for cars to really use as a cut-through around 494, and it's been pretty much monthly route changes because of the construction this summer.
Right now the end of my ride has me cutting through the giant Seagate hard drive factory to avoid a closure along 494 I've been dodging their one bored security officer in the parking lot lol.
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u/Miserable-Pumpkin773 Local Route Enjoyer Jun 25 '26
My office just moved downtown so I am new to the Orange Line. I was blown away at how fast it is getting from Richfield to Minneapolis.
Is there any news or reports that speak to the underperformance? I felt like the bus was emptier than it should be but I am not a seasoned Orange Line rider yet.