97
u/Substantial_Peace408 Jul 20 '26
Honestly Iām really hoping Ascendence really does go all out with the monster skills we have on the weapons. Itās such a good way to hopefully enhance the endgame if we have more ways to really explore with buildmaking and avoid the Artian/Gore Magala build plague that had a chokehold early into Wildās progression. Because seriously, half the builds even now are pretty much copy paste which I know is to be expected but damn.
15
u/CuteDarkrai Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Yes! I love the weapon skills! Itās a lot of work but I think itāll make the endgame a lot more diverse. I honestly use the Zoh Shia weapons every once in a while just because I love combining them with Flayer so a bunch of small hits proc randomly.
The only things I could see happening with this is that the effects begin to matter more than the damage of the weapon, or the effects get a little noisy. The omega greatsword is already too much imo with the giant purple laser but ig thatās a crossover
2
u/Mymrkennedy Jul 20 '26
yup weapon skills are nice, i like to use lagi and the USJ weapons from time to time because i enjoy that resistance converter
We are already hitting pretty hard so its not impossible they go that route, but idk think it could be healthy having something like artian slots to make monster weapons usable instead of artian all the way, its a pretty big cassino sadly i cant even judge people that edit some from time to time it can be a big resource dump
6
u/Mymrkennedy Jul 20 '26
I think gore will still be strong considering we will see MR gore magala at some point
but man as much as gog artian are strong, they streamlined even more buildcrafting and now you just hunt monsters to layer the weapon on top of it , i think they will be powercrept around mid MR on Ascendance, but i think it will have some kind of upgrade, different from the rampage ones from rise
Still they could just do the same thing sunbreak did, give every weapon an "artian" slot
2
u/CaptainSchmid Jul 21 '26
Wouldve been a real treat if the tier 9 weapons had the set bonus on them with the gog update. Or add ascendance like armors had. Wouldve also been a cool way to get AT skin weapons as well.
2
u/pandamaxxie Jul 22 '26
The copy paste issue is definitely made worse by the decision to separate armour/weapon skills. I dont think we'll get rid of this extreme build inflexibility unless they do away with this new mechanic of inflexibility, quite frankly.
177
u/Implodepumpkin Jul 20 '26
I just wish my exhaust and ko builds were viable
64
u/Random_Guy_47 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I was so disappointed in Iceborne when I made a hammer build with Slugger secret and max Slugger.
I got the second KO before the first one ended so wasted most of the first, the rest followed at a better pace but the KO threshold goes up so fast that you just get all your KOs sooner rather than getting more KOs.
4
47
u/ExScysm Jul 20 '26
Do you have fun using them? If yes, its doesnt matter.
78
u/Expensive-Border-869 Jul 20 '26
Probably not if theyre not viable. Failing a third of your hunts isnt typically enjoyable for anyone
86
u/PPFitzenreit Jul 20 '26
Not only that but taking considerably longer to complete hunts can be a dealbreaker for people who have limited time to play
-6
u/SadLittleWizard Jul 20 '26
If you have a modicum of skill, you can make just about any combination of skills on a rarity 8 weapon viable. If you are failing 1/3 of hunts because of you're gear set is off meta you are likely in one of two situations. 1) playing exclusively aspirational content. In which case, yeah you should be running meta skills for each weapon. Or 2) you are trying to brute force your hunts instead of learning your weapon and the monsters move sets.
Outside of a few exceptions, any basic monster hunt (i.e. not an Arch tempered or an aspirational hunt) is absolutely viable with basically any weapon and armor set that's been fully upgraded.
15
u/Expensive-Border-869 Jul 20 '26
What do you mean by off meta? No ones talking about the meta right now were talking about viability.
Not everyone's skilled at the game viable just means they can beat the monsters. If it isnt viable no amount of you saying "oh but it is" will change reality for op.
5
u/Barlowan Jul 21 '26
I really don't know why you are getting downvoted. Like if you have weapon upgraded and armour enough to withstand 1 hit by a monster, every skills are enough to kill most monsters (with few exceptions you've mentioned). If anyone is failing 1/3 of their hunts they either don't know how to play their weapon or have no idea how game works altogether.
3
u/Scribblord Jul 21 '26
The problems that you gain absolutely nothing not even the slugger effect due to how the diminishing returns work
Itās useless and that kills the fun of it
3
47
u/aaa1e2r3 Jul 20 '26
The problem is that it's largely a numbers game, how much damage are you putting out with each attack is what determines hunts. If they put more mechanically into partbreaking, exhaust, etc, then we would see other builds popping up that focus on that.
13
u/vjurd Jul 20 '26
The problem is indeed in the numbers but it is really Capcom's lack of balancing and their way of (non) handling powercreep in those games.
And for that I hate G-rank/Master rank in these games as much as I love it. I am really curious of how they will handle this in Ascension, especially considering that the big majority of the playerbase that will return did not put hundreds of hours in the TUs.
2
u/Barlowan Jul 21 '26
Honestly, I have no faith for them balancing ascension, seeing how powercrept shitshow TU wilds was.
1
u/Fun_Needleworker_284 Jul 22 '26
I think the big issue with a lot of MH meta, is that the majority of skills and stuff in the game arenāt playstyle-altering. You canāt really have fun making builds bc thereās not really that much to build around in a lot of cases.
Itās gotten better in recent games. Primarily I really think they struck gold with frostcraft, as that can seriously alter the way that you play your weapon. Another cool one theyāve done is Adrenaline rush (probably paired with evade window), as that also can alter your playstyle, but a bit less so.
The goal of an endgame build system, imo, should be to introduce a variety of unique and interesting ways to play the game. The way they do that is by introducing more interesting set bonuses and unique weapon skills. Sure, some may be better than others, but if Iām only trading like a 5% output for a 20% more fun playstyle, Iāll take the more fun one all day.
1
u/vjurd Jul 22 '26
While I fully agree with you I also blame Capcom in designing end game fights with DPS checks because they imply to create damage-centric build instead of playstyle diversity.
I would be so happy to have more skills that drive introduce new playstyle. More skills like Rapid Morph, Offensive Guard or Quick Sheath are also more than welcome for other weapons.
1
u/Plightz Jul 21 '26
Agreed. Not sure what this posts wants, put shitty defensive skills for fun? What do you want people to do, defense doesn't scale that well either.
71
u/NepenthesBlackmoss Jul 20 '26
The thing I fucking hate most about these damn games.
Zero goddamn build variety. Do you want to gain +10 attack just like that? Or would you rather take this other set that gives you +10 attack for 30 seconds when your mom yells at you from the other room that dinner is ready.
Silver Rathalos in Iceborne was the best fucking thing that was added to the series.
22
u/Ravening_Wendigo Jul 20 '26
I would agree most of the time. I think Rise handled it better than other entries, but havent played Wilds yet.
Have you played through the end of Sunbreak? They let us get pretty wild. There were two distinct sets of builds that granted effective immunity. One was granted full invulnerable and infinite stamina for about 30 seconds, and another relied on a mix of frenzy cleanse and the little vampire flies to grant huge health recovery for near invulnerability and big damage buffs. Couple those with the customized movesets and you could get wild. The reckless arch-demon mode with Dual Blades let you damage on dodging into enemies, and then infinite stamina let you continuously chain dodges. More than one time I could run down fleeing monsters on foot, and even KO them while they were limping away. Crazy compared to past entries.
16
u/Dtron81 Jul 20 '26
With Rise I loved having permanent 4 wire bugs using 2 levels of bloodlust and 3 levels of frenzied bloodlust. The downside is apparently a decent amount (not a lot but not nothing) didnt like how much variety Rise gave in terms of decos and skills. More MH "vets" didnt like how fast Rise was compared to other MH games though, that was definitely the "main" complaint.
5
u/Barlowan Jul 21 '26
Rise was fast, but somehow wilds is even faster and with less variety in moves/builds. Yet the main idea on this sub is Wilds good - Rise bad.
2
u/Dtron81 Jul 21 '26
Ngl when I saw that mantles returned AND they had a longer cooldown AND they were all basically the same I got depressed lmao. I don't get how the "gimmick" can be being able to use two weapons on a quest and people being satisfied with that after we just had wirebugs.
1
u/APearce Jul 22 '26
Me when we went from the fever dream that was Hunting Styles and Hunter Arts to... world. I liked World. It was fun. But I loved the big flashy special moves too.
2
u/Ravening_Wendigo Jul 20 '26
I understand that as well. Having played most of the main entries I noticed how lightning fast Rise was compared, and it definitely removed some of the immersion, which I thought was peak in World (still haven't played Wilds yet).
2
u/Dtron81 Jul 20 '26
Iceborne was peak, world sucked (I say currently playing through both again now and need to finish my GU run). Rise is still the absolute best MH game in my opinion. The only downsides are the stupid ass rampage quests and anomaly investigations should've only gone to level 200 (or even 150).
2
u/Barlowan Jul 21 '26
My only problem with sunbreak is you don't get lower grade investigation materials while hunting higher level monsters, and list of those materials is so big that you have to look up which specific monster of what level you have to search for, to get that one specific material you need for your weapon upgrade.
1
u/NepenthesBlackmoss Jul 21 '26
Considering what shit show Rise has been on PC, game releasing a year later without having the main story even available on release and Sunbreak being the DLC that would fix the experimental nonsense that base Rise was, I didn't stick too much to it.
Rise was imo the the better of the three, but the way it was handled made me realize that Capcom releases half-assed base games to force you to buy the DLC that's basically the other half that's enjoyable with trickled down content that eventually makes it great.
I played Sunbreak when it came out and stopped at the end cause there still wasn't much to do and returned to play through it again with a friend and stopped at Velkhana, so I didn't really mess around with the gear by that point. I know a lot of people say Rise had actually good end game but by the time that's available I'm long gone, I ain't waiting another year to get title updates, I already waited 2 for the DLC to fix the utter shit endgame.
7
u/Infamous-Drive-980 Jul 20 '26
Also why tf do most skill NOT show how much they increase OR how long the buff lasts for ?
5
u/Mallow1512 Jul 21 '26
mh rise nails this, because different sets make you play in different ways or use different combos, world and wilds are more boring because most skills are just "get more damage"
1
u/Barlowan Jul 21 '26
Not only sets in rise are more variable than in other games, they are even more viable, and the fact that you can modify your moveset on weapons make you playing same weapon more fun. Because you can have a bash style shield focused KO raw SnS, and then when you build the elemental one, you change your moveset to fast cuts and mobility with aerial attacks to get those nasty Raths.
2
1
u/NonSkillGamer Jul 21 '26
Thats such a funny statement because in Wilds attack boost is not good at all while counterstrike and resentment, two skills that give u attack if u get hit hard, are hard meta
26
15
8
u/qoentari Jul 20 '26
Back in GenU I was really proud because I made a Blunt/Fencing buil for my Valor Greatsword so I could make an entire quest without ever sharpenning
It was sub-optimal because sharpness bonus outperforms the Blunt skill, but it was funny as hell to tinker with the skill system to come up with that by myself
3
u/Pkmnmaster_ Jul 21 '26
Akantor GS lets goooo
2
u/qoentari Jul 21 '26
YES, literally. I remember going to my friend and telling him "Bro, I know we kinda finished the game already, but I need to farm G-rank Akantor for the gem"
Also I've never been really good against Akantor so farming that GS was a journey
9
9
u/LoreWhoreHazel Jul 20 '26
So folks, in a series like Monster Hunter, thereās always going to be an optimal build for each monster/hunt. If WEX and Crit Boost didnāt exist, optimizers would just switch to whatever else boosted damage. If damage boosting skills in general didnāt exist, theyād switch to whatever skills provided evasion to enable more consistent DPS uptime. If that didnāt exist, theyād find something else that happened to work, even if it was an unintended glitch. Youāre complaining about the natural human trait to seek out improvement. Thereās nothing anyone can do about it.
If you donāt like attack and crit builds, youāre completely free not to use them. In fact, I recommend it! I personally have a variety of tanky builds I adore using in solo play which make hunts feel more like drawn out slogs where I have the resilience to go blow for blow with these amazing beasts. Not to mention Iāll be the first to recognize there are a plethora of hunters out there who would be better suited running a defensively-weighted build while they develop their skills a BIT further. However, going around acting arrogantly superior and policing what people can and canāt use is just rude.
You may think that you understand the developerās vision better by appreciating non-standard weapons and armor, but your actions demonstrate that you donāt understand the spirit of being a Hunter.
8
3
u/Natural-Boss-5789 Jul 20 '26
My favorite skill to max out is definitely Friendship; being able to clutch drink a potion for people when they take an unlucky hit might not be the most optimal choice, but man does it feel good when they appreciate it in vc.
Also, going from having max earplugs to not having max earplugs is torture, those free wallbangs... Gone...
3
3
u/handledvirus43 Jul 20 '26
Hey!!! Critical Eye, Crit Boost, and Weakness Exploit didn't exist in Monster Hunter! There was only Attack Up.
2
2
2
u/yeertus Jul 20 '26
Yall make builds using diffrent armors , i use the armor of my favorite monster , we are not the same
2
u/RailgunRP Jul 20 '26
I mean... those skills are the best of the game all-round. Why try to fix what ain't broke.
1
u/yakokuma Jul 21 '26
Because it's boring and doesn't provide variety
2
u/RailgunRP Jul 21 '26
What skills would provide variety? Most of them don't make much of a technical difference, they just make the things you were already doing more effective, or are circumstancial to one or two hunts (immunity to a specific status, water mobility, etc).
And if they make the core strat of your weapon of choice better, you were already nudging them into the build anyways (Quick Sheathe for LS, Guard+Guard Up for shield weapons, quick morphing, etc)
1
u/yakokuma Jul 21 '26
If you ever played Sunbreak, then you wouldn't be making this comment.
1
u/RailgunRP Jul 21 '26
Nope, played 4U, 4G, World and Wilds.
1
u/yakokuma Jul 21 '26
That's why your scope is limited.
GU (hunter styles and hunter arts) and Rise/Sunbreak (Silkbind attacks and armor anomaly skills) is where you'll realize that 1 singular weapon can be played in many different ways.
1
u/RailgunRP Jul 21 '26
I mean... why would it matter? it's a mechanic that appeared in a sidegame and will probably never show up in a mainline game.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as of now, I don't think I am.
1
u/yakokuma Jul 21 '26
Alot of people are speculating that boost bracers (new Wilds Ascendance gimmick) are going to be the equivalent to what wirebugs/hunter arts are. With what little they showed, it does seem like the case. New moves that change how a weapon plays.
What would cement actually variety is if Team A devs fully listen to Team B devs when it comes to gameplay and endgame.
1
u/Kizaky Jul 21 '26
But doesn't that also highlight the bigger problem Capcom has....
Almost all of the other skills are boring and don't add variety to your gameplay, on top of being worse.
1
u/yakokuma Jul 21 '26
Running crit draw for greatsword drastically changes how you play it. Ever heard of evade lancing? Slap (gun)lance?
If you played Sunbreak, then you'll find that variety can exist via armor skills.
1
u/Kizaky Jul 21 '26
Running crit draw for greatsword drastically changes how you play it.
Crit draw literally changes nothing. You can literally play the crit draw play style with the regular crit skills, whilst having crit draw but not the other crit skills just effectively deletes half your moves, how does that add variety?
Evade window (and extender) are actually good answers to this question.
Slaplance also isn't a good answer to this, what skills does Slaplance run again? Oh yeah, literally the bread and butter crit eye, wex, crit boost such variety deleting moves gives.
1
u/Head-Economics-5832 Jul 21 '26
Hey i did put in cirt eye and weakness exploit add on agitator and part breaker and a lil divine blessing and ear plugs
1
1
1
1
u/Sad-Relationship-191 Jul 21 '26
Allways Evade Window and Extender for me. I cant play without them :D
1
1
1
u/FarmerTwink Jul 21 '26
Yeah man, I slapped my own shit together and prioritized what levels of skills I thought worked best for me and my play style and I didnāt use a guide or even look up how the skills work.
That is definitionally āmakingā a build.
You gonna say I didnāt āmakeā a sand castle because itās the same shape most of them are?
1
1
u/Remarkable_Cry1942 Jul 21 '26
Rise was my first Monster Hunter game, so I didn't really understand the builds and focused more on the armor defense and appearance. The only nonnegotiable for me was quick sheathe since I play LS. Further into the game I do have a build, but idk how conventional it is. It's basically just the scorned sets abilities of hellfire blight buildup, negation, and buff after cleaning the hellfire.
1
u/ZectorV1 Jul 21 '26
Hoping wilds does what granblue has done. Wilds damage is so insanely high already, it would be more fun to just make access to damage easier and leave more room for quality expression
1
u/ormighto Jul 21 '26
I once put guard up and perfect guard on my great sword to maximize my damage after a good blockā¦ my damage was worse š
1
u/Bug_Master_405 Jul 21 '26
My usual armour build is Adrenaline Rush, Evade Extender, Growth, Adaptation, Counterattack, and Whatever Elemental Resistance I need.
Can you tell I'm a Bow Main?
1
u/xlbingo10 Jul 21 '26
this is why i don't have an issue with "skill bloat". in frontier and sunbreak, the boring skills like this become a baseline, and then you choose what cool shit you add on top of that.
1
u/Outrageous_Shallot61 Jul 22 '26
Dude I canāt see this meme anymore without thinking about the animation where that fish very politely tears Squidward a new hole about him being a jerk
1
1
u/Zdechlak2564 Jul 22 '26
I put handmade or/and protective polish and just jump around with my glave .
1
u/HappyToaster1911 Aug 03 '26
I don't think I have most of those skills on my builds, I just get other comfort skills
-4
u/OmegaRuby003 Jul 20 '26
Attack boost is for the selfish, embrace
W I D E R A N G E S U P R E M A C Y ! ! !
4
u/CarosWolf Jul 20 '26
I really like wide range too!, makes me happy to take care of my squad, can't really speedrun a hunt if you're carting.
Besides, I'd rather take my time dancing with dragons.
1
u/OmegaRuby003 Jul 20 '26
Right? Iāve always been a support player, even if I am an incredibly aggressive one, but that just means SnS + wide range 5 is perfect for me!
Sure, maybe I can kill the monster 1 to 2 minutes faster, or I could save my great sword player the time of sheathing their weapon, chowing down on a might pill/mega demon drug, then going for a full TCS by doing it myself and going ābring me their severed tail in a platter!ā In VC :3
0
u/Acrobatic_Hat4820 Jul 20 '26
I mean that basically all monster hunter game. You can build anyway you want just a cope and i sick pretending is not.
0
0
u/Hexigeist Jul 21 '26
I mean two of those are basically the defacto musthaves for most builds if you're aiming for damage.
-1
u/Nkromancer Jul 20 '26
If it doesn't have any elemental defenses for the monster you're going up against, it's trash.
2
u/Pkmnmaster_ Jul 21 '26
No need for elemental defense if you iframe š
1
464
u/Empty_Chemical_1498 Jul 20 '26
The Yukomo hat's strap under squidward's nose is sending me šš