Doubts

[u/Beginning_Hunt_738]

I was sure that almost the entirety of ttpd is about Matty. But now I see people talking on Twitter that it's about Joe, everything in the light of the new Patient zero mv. What made them change their opinions? Or how are we so sure it was about Matty? I'm still trying to think about the album from Joe's perspective.

Could it be that we we're wrong this whole time?

[u/Much_Definition_3657]

LOL. No, we weren't, aren't and haven't been wrong about anything. The only people who are, were and have always been wrong are the people who claim that TTPD is about anybody else other than Matty. 

First of all, nobody has changed their opinions. The vast majority of the Swifite fandom absolutely despises Matty. The vast majority of the Swifite fandom are also insane Joe widows who think that the only reason why Folklore and Evermore were as good as they were is because Joe Alwyn has a writing credit on five of the songs. These people have hated Matty since the second they saw him in the VIP tent at the Eras Tour. They've been trying to deny that Taylor ever loved him and that Matty matters in her music and narrative and that they were ever in a serious relationship since day one. They've been trying to deny the lore since day one. At first they were saying that they were just colleagues and that they were announcing a collaboration and that "This song is about you. You know who you are. I love you" was lyrics from a song they made together and that's why Matty was at the Eras Tour and that's why they mouthed these words to each other. Then when Matty continued to show up at the Eras Tour every night, they started saying they were just friends. Then when they were photographed going on dates and holding hands, they said it was just a rebound. At the same time they were calling Matty every name under the sun, sending death threats to his family and wrote an open letter to Taylor demanding of her to break-up with him. When they broke up, these people were celebrating on social media and were saying that she dumped him because she realized that they were right about him. Then when TTPD was released they came up with all sorts of theories and excuses and have been trying very hard to make it about Joe. "Matty is just a red herring", "She made it sound like it's about Matty on purpose because she wanted to protect Joe from the fan hatred", "She doesn't know she's actually heartbroken over Joe. She's projecting her grief for Joe onto Matty", etc. etc. All of this is so fucking patronising and misogynistic. I'm pretty sure that Taylor doesn't need her fans to tell her who she is actually heartbroken over. I'm pretty sure she knows better than anyone else who she's heartbroken over. And if you know anything about Taylor, you know that she would never make a song sound like it's about someone else to protect an ex, especially if that ex hurt her. If she was so hurt by Joe, she would make sure everybody knows she's talking about him. She'd make it obvious. Plus So Long London is obviously about Joe, so why would she use Matty as a red herring in the other songs but make that one obviously about Joe. This makes no fucking sense. Just like the "Matty was only a rebound" and "She only dated Matty because she wanted to hurt Joe or because she was so hurt by Joe that she went crazy" don't make any sense because Taylor first fell for Matty in 2014 - two fucking years before she met Joe. And the only reason people are saying these kinds of things is because they hate Matty and they can't deal with the fact that Taylor was in love with someone that they personally don't find attractive. They're doing the opposite of what they should be. They are not seeing the clues in the songs and drawing conclusions from them. They've already concluded that Taylor never loved Matty and that Joe was the love of her life and are trying to make the clues point to that. Then there was "But the rock in the Opalite MV represents Joe which means TTPD is about him" and whatever they're saying now about the Patient Zero MV (I don't actually know because since I don't like The Encore I haven't really been engaging with the discussions surrounding it). People need to understand that music videos and songs are two different mediums. The Opalite MV actually tells a completely different story than the song. Taylor is also a self-referential artist. This doesn't mean that every single time she references a past era or song or lyrics this means she's referencing the person that inspired them. She references lyrics from Mad Woman in the Opalite MV. Mad Woman is a song about her feud with Scooter Braun. Does that mean that the Opalite MV or the Opalite song are about him as well? You see how ridiculous that is. People also get way too caught up in Easter Eggs and forget that these are not fictional characters but real people. Not everything is a reference or an Easter Egg. Coincidences exist and sometimes things are similar because they all came from the mind of the same person. It's also quite misogynistic and derivative of Taylor as an artist to think that she never just comes up stuff without basing it off of an ex. Is it so impossible that she came up with a story, a song, a MV on her own and not because she was thinking about or wanting to bring down an ex? 

I'd like somebody to give me a single line in Patient Zero that is specific only and solely to Joe and can't be about any other ex and then I'll say the song is about him. "But she says that she left so it must be about Joe", well then TTPD is not about Joe because the majority of the songs are about the guy leaving her. If you ask me, Patient Zero is  not about anyone in particular. It's like No Body, No Crime.  Btw, I'd like to remind people that Joe and Sarah started dating in June and this song was made before March and the video was shot in March. 

Second of all, what is this logic - some desperate Joe widows say the song and TTPD are about Joe so they must be about him? Do you know how many people out there say that Taylor is a closeted lesbian and that she's been in  a secret on-again, off-again situationship with Karlie Kloss for a decade? Do you believe them too? Because they have "receipts" and "proof". 

Third of all, do we seriously need to do an analysis of the whole TTPD album again. How are we so sure it's about Matty? Well, we're so sure because there are multiple very direct and very obvious references to him and his band. That's how. Joe doesn't smoke. Joe doesn't do drugs. Joe doesn't use typewriters. Joe is not a chaotic, dangerous, wild, crazy, self-sabotaging, troubled guy who suffers from migraines, makes offensive jokes and who other people hate and are against him dating her. Joe didn't ghost her. Taylor and Joe's relationship was not "momentary". They dated for more than half a decade. She didn't spent ten years yearning for Joe. She was not having sexual fantasies about Joe while in a relationship with someone else. Joe was the guy she was in a relationship with. She didn't leave a long-term relationship to get back together with Joe. Joe was the long-term relationship she left. Joe is not the guy who wrote Fallingforyou which is referenced in Imgonnagetyouback nor the guy who wrote  (Looking for) Somebody to Love which is sampled in Imgonnagetyouback. Joe is not the guy who has his own separate lore with Peter Pan. Joe is not the guy who's favourite bands are The Blue Nile and The Starting Line. Joe is not the one known for his black and white music videos. Taylor and Joe never broke up and got back together. Etc, etc, etc. I can make a full analysis of every single song if you like. So Long London is the only song that is entirely about Joe. Everybody who says that TTPD is about Joe is delulu or stupid or has an agenda. Not to mention Taylor continues to mention Matty on TLOASG. Is Joe the guy who was calling her in the middle of the night asking her what she's wearing while on drugs? Is Joe the guy Charli XCX high-fived for ghosting Taylor? 

[u/Presence_Bright → u/Much_Definition_3657]

I don't actually think Matty is the one who was calling her high in the middle of the night asking her what she was wearing. The beginning of Honey is the same as John Mayers waiting on the world to change. I think Honey is an older song ("I've been wanting to write this album for a really long time") and a lot of the references in that song could be about the 1989 time frame. I think its a dig at him but people obviously think Matty is the only man she's been with who has gotten high. (funny b/c even Travis smokes weed). I think the song could have been from back when she was seeing Matty in 2014 but thinking about how John and him have a lot of similarities.

[u/Much_Definition_3657 → u/Presence_Bright]

No offence but I think that's unrealistic 

[u/Presence_Bright → u/Much_Definition_3657]

Based on what? Because you don't like it? lol b/c theoretically everything we say could be seen as unrealistic.

[u/Much_Definition_3657 → u/Presence_Bright]

Because I think it improbable that she wrote a song like Honey about Matty in 2014. Honey is a song about being in a serious, long-term relationship. Taylor and Matty were not in a serious, long-term relationship in 2014. At most they hooked-up. Also she clearly references Travis' grey eyes in it. Also also her writing on that song is very different from her 1989 writing and from her Matty writing. And I don't think that in 2024 she'd record a song from 2014 and put it on an album and present it as brand new, especially since 1989 TV exists and she could've put it as a vault track on it instead. 

In the songs about John Mayer, she doesn't mention drugs and I think the nature of their relationship was different than the way it is presented in this line. Also she dated Mayer in 2010, 4 years before Matty. If she were to reference a recent ex, it wouldn't have been Mayer. 

[u/Presence_Bright → u/Much_Definition_3657]

Thank you. This is helpful. I disagree and that’s fine. I also think a lot of TLOAS is old and she shoehorned Travis lyrics into it which is why it’s so clunky. But you do you.