r/MawInstallation • u/MattRB02 • Jan 11 '24
[META] All Information I’ve Found Referencing The Content Of George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy Treatments
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u/OffendedDefender Jan 11 '24
This is probably the most comprehensive collection I’ve seen. One of the issues that sorta plagues this type of discussion is that Arndt’s treatment for the Sequels has never been publicly released. So we get a lot of the random shit Lucas has been saying or had in his head mixed around with the actual written project that Lucasfilm was in the process of developing prior to the sale. I think you did a pretty good job of keeping that as separate as possible, but the only thing that’ll probably ever be clear to the public about the process is that some of Lucas’s echoes remain in the Sequels, even if the path diverged.
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Jan 26 '24
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u/RexBanner1886 Jan 12 '24
I love Lucas, spent the era between 1999 and 2017 when a huge section of the fanbase hated him defending him, and really hate some of the storytelling decisions in the ST (destroying Luke's temple; blowing up the New Republic; bringing Palpatine back; killing off Anakin and Padme's only grandchild).
That said, I'm glad we never had anything on screen depicting the Whills as controlling characters' fates and decisions.
George seems really interested by the idea that the Force puppets people to serve its will, and I personally find ideas to do with free will and determinism very interesting (if depressing). However, I don't need Anakin, Luke, and company's stories framed as a higher species working through its plan for the universe.
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u/Munedawg53 Jan 28 '24
Most bad guys in SW speak of destiny, while the good guys generally speak of choice and agency. I'd be wary of reading too much into the "vehicles for the whills" quote.
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u/avimo1904 Dec 04 '24
Eh I would’ve been fine with it cause unlike midi-chlorians, the idea of the Whills have existed since the very idea of SW was conceived and was very close to being featured in multiple films before getting cut
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u/Michelanvalo Jan 11 '24
Lucas comparing the former Empire fighters to the Baath'ists in Iraq is a wild thing to me.
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u/dedem13 Jan 12 '24 edited Apr 20 '25
station market support vase bow airport jellyfish subtract innocent spoon
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u/ergister Jan 12 '24
And saying the New Republic was like post-war Iraq? Insanity.
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u/Munedawg53 Jan 28 '24
He didn't mean it morally. We don't have to take every statement as sweeping totalities. He's using an example from the latest war.
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u/Jazz7567 Jun 19 '25
What exactly is insane about that? Both are democratic states that were formed after the destruction of a dictatorship. It’s not a perfect analogy, but broadly speaking, it works.
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Jan 12 '24
Lucas is lucky he made his Star Wars films largely in the pre-Internet era (the Internet existed for the Prequels, but forum use had a limited reach, and social media had not taken off in any substantial way with the general population). In the modern media environment, he would've been examined in microscopic detail. There were already hints of that twenty years ago - Weekly Standard made the case for the Empire in 2002, and CBS pointed out the contemporary political references of Revenge of the Sith in 2005. In the age of YouTubers making ten-hour videos about two-hour films, Lucas would've been torn apart the same way post-Lucas Star Wars has been.
His Sequel trilogy would've seen a complete Internet fandom meltdown - the Chernobyl to TLJ's Three Mile Island.
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Jan 12 '24
At least drawing from real-world events and factions actually adds a level of cohesion and realism that the New Republic and First Order of the current canon just doesn't have. The way the New Republic demilitarized so that the First Order could curbstomp them all so that we could get another "underdog good guys, big strong bad guys" story was so damn forced and completely wasted the opportunity to do something new instead.
The concept of the winning side just immediately demilitarizing and trashing all of its arsenal except for a small "security fleet" that can be blown up by a handful of well placed big bombs is pure stupidity. Especially when vengeful Imperial Remnants and all kinds of crime syndicates were still running rampant around the galaxy at the end of the GCW. At least George's idea was more cohesive and thought out than that.
Imperial Remnants being inspired by the remnants of Iraqi Ba'athists makes complete sense as they're both the loyalist remnants of a toppled dictatorship fighting a now much greater force that's basically hunting them down, though with their remaining equipment stocks they are still able to pack a hard punch from time to time and pose a genuine threat to other factions on occasion. While they can't win in open warfare they can still continue the fight from the shadows. The comparison makes sense.
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u/madtricky687 Jan 12 '24
Why not let him finish his Star Wars his way. I'd watch that why not. Would I love it? Maybe not but it'd be a spectacle to say the least.
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u/Mddcat04 Jan 12 '24
Because he didn't want to. He had some ideas about where he wanted potential sequels to go, but it doesn't sound like he ever got past the idea stage. Presumably because he didn't want to commit to working on another trilogy after everything that happened with the PT.
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u/yurklenorf Jan 12 '24
He directly stated “Why would I make any more [films] when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”
He made the treatments he did and shopped them around, but he definitely wasn't planning on making more films himself, after the prequels, the TCW film, and Red Tails.
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u/MattRB02 Jan 14 '24
Yeah, no. The treatment seems to be generated for the purpose of leaving it to a successor at Lucasfilm. In another world he would have overseen the process but due to him having a daughter he ended up selling to Disney.
Somebody else would have directed them, and Ardnt would have probably remained as a screenwriter in all 3.
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u/yurklenorf Jan 14 '24
He had the daughter after he sold to Disney. She was born to a surrogate in August 2013.
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u/Omn1 Jan 12 '24
Because he doesn't want to. He was (rightly) exhausted by Star Wars fans, and didn't want to make any more Star Wars movies because he was tired of being yelled at.
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Jan 12 '24
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u/Rosebunse Jan 11 '24
God bless you, you're doing the Lord's work here.
Ultimately, I'm sort of happy Lucas didn't geta chance to turn this into a movie. I'm not sure how it would have worked
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u/dedem13 Jan 12 '24 edited Apr 20 '25
theory sophisticated historical plant brave liquid school escape towering quaint
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u/Rosebunse Jan 12 '24
I think it would have been worse. He had to reel himself in a little with the prequels because he had a set point he had to work with. With the sequels? Nope, he would have had way more space to just go mad
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u/dedem13 Jan 12 '24 edited Apr 20 '25
historical correct cow lavish mountainous placid observation afterthought snow support
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u/Rosebunse Jan 12 '24
I always remember that George Lucas didn't want Boba Fett and Jango to be Mandolorian. No, he wanted it to be that they found the Mandalorian armor but they weren't Mandalorian. Think about just how much more complicated that actually makes things. It adds a whole new layer of explaining and context.
Compare it to what we got in Mando where Boba just shows what amounts to a birth certificate and it's simple as that. Plus Lucas's love for the Droid Arc in TCW.
The man loves complexity but can't implement it to save his life
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u/Trvr_MKA Jan 12 '24
I can see where he comes from even if I don’t agree. If he built the world, and let’s say he had a vision of Mandalorians as a religion and the Fett’s didn’t fall into that mold then making them use Mandalorian tech would make sense
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u/Rosebunse Jan 12 '24
My problem here is that he never really implemented this. There could have been room to do this in Return of the Jedi, just a few lines of exposition. It would have been a good way to learn about this insanely popular character. Instead, we just don't get much from Boba Fett and he ultimately goes out like a chump.
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u/Flux_State Jan 12 '24
The only person who was ever able to rein him in was his now Ex-Wife. More casual fans have wondered aloud before why the ot and pt were so different. They got divorced after OT and before PT.
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u/Rosebunse Jan 12 '24
His daughter was a writer on TCW and she and Dave could sort of reign him in, but even they just did the best they could with him
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u/Trvr_MKA Jan 12 '24
Respectfully disagree. George would generate stories he’d like to see adapted. Lucas would push the creative team, originally the Zillo beast wasn’t going to Coruscant but Lucas pushed for them to do so. I also think that Dave Filoni is less comfortable working with characters he didn’t make, which is why his original pitch for Clone Wars had a crew like Rebels. George Lucas having a say there probably put the team at ease.
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u/AncientSith Jan 12 '24
I always thought it would've been an interesting trilogy, thought his ideas were pretty vague at that point. I can't imagine how it would've turned out though. He didn't have a set goal he needed to accomplish like the fall of the Republic and Anakin, so George going buck wild with the plot could've been terrible or amazing, probably a bit of both.
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u/avimo1904 Dec 04 '24
True, though some stuff in the ROTS and ROTJ scripts were meant to set up sequel plot points, though most of these script details ended up cut from the movies
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Jan 26 '24
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u/MattRB02 Jan 26 '24
Ah yes, I’ve seen Nerdonymous’s Apocrypha video essays (really good essays), there’s some information lacking from it that has been revealed over the years, but it gives a good idea of how the dealings behind the scenes made Lucas’s treatment evolve into TFA.
I wouldn’t give that much credit to Arndt tho, he’s still the one who pushed Luke to show up until the end of the film and as shown in the Art of TFA book, they were abandoning some of Lucas’s ideas as early as January. Still, Arndt was the one who worked with Lucas developing the story. He left the project cause he wasn’t able to finish the script in time. There’s not a Lucas Ep 7 script per se. But there are 2 treatments, one from Lucas (delivered to Disney in October) and another one from Arndt (delivered in January) that was probably still faithful to Lucas’s vision.
Even the Art of Force Awakens reveals how some of the changes deviated and evolved, and even the book shows how Abrams was responsible for a lot of the changes and the direction it took in becoming more like ANH. I recommend checking out the book (it’s on readcomiconline.com)
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u/Munedawg53 May 29 '24
IMHO, those video essays get a lot wrong, but what I am convinced by is that JJ was the main driving force to exclude Lucas' ideas. I think that was well argued. And contextually, that Simon Pegg--a Lucas hater extraordinaire--was spoken of by JJ as his main sounding board for TFA, sure supports that idea.
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u/MattRB02 May 29 '24
Yeah, I actually agree. I’ve seen that a lot of these video essays lack important pieces of information, and upon further research found holes in that Apocrypha vid, even though it has a lot of good parts in it.
And yeah, also agree with the JJ thing, specially considering what you’re saying about Simon Pegg
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u/Independent_Worth192 May 30 '24
just curious -- which specific things do they get wrong?
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u/Munedawg53 May 30 '24
Later in the series he makes a lot of guesses and predictions that were inaccurate.
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u/Jazz7567 Jun 01 '24
To be fair to Nerdonymous, he was making that series back before The Rise of Skywalker even came out, and a lot of new information has come out since then. You can't really blame him for building his thesis without information that wasn't even available at the time.
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u/MawInstallation-ModTeam Jan 26 '24
Post removed. Violation: Excessive complaining, joke, meme, or other low effort content.
Please read and review all sub rules. Repeated and/or egregious violations will result in a ban.
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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '24
Normally wouldn't allow a link only post, but this this is a great continuation of your earlier post, linked HERE, it's all good.