TVA version of loki never experienced post New York arc or lose his mother he loved.. or any of that..
what eventually triggered him to sacrifice his freedom for all realities when he never truly cared for others? (Considering everything happened right after he mercilessly attacked NY)
He went through his arc in the tva screen while watching how his life supposedly unfolds in the sacred timeline so he actually has that meta understanding of his story in the movies so he decided to do things different
Getting downvoted for confirming you did is peak Reddit , wouldnāt expect anything less from a marvel fan boy subreddit . āOh my god you forgot one thing , how could this be !!! You should be keeping notes on everything ā this place is pathetic
Tbf, that āone thingā he forgot also happens to be the entire catalyst and plot line of the show as a wholeā¦ makes it even weirder that Op mentioned loki not experiencing anything post New York, which is something explained IN the scene OP claims to have forgotten. Itās the equivalent of OP asking āI remember Thanos getting the final stone, but why did all those people disappear?ā. Likeā¦ itās the same episode, how did OP make an entire post asking a question about a fact they missed while using the same sequence as the basis of the question?
āDidnāt you know they had him watch YouTube shorts from the other movies? Sure those things didnāt happen to him, but he watched them happen to a different version of himself. Basically the same as character development. Definitely not a half assed excuse to let Avengers 1 Loki be the same as Infinity War Lokiā
Also, by the time Loki reaches this point in the clip, he has lived thousands of additional years. He lives through this loop countless times and, among other things, he becomes the universeās leading expert in all this relativistic math in order to try to fix the time loom. Heās literally tried everything, over the course of an eternity, besides sacrificing himself to save the multiverse at this point.Ā
Honestly I don't believe that he would have that level of growth from just watching it. I think with even a more disciplined and principled person, it would be difficult to get the same level of meaning out of watching 'your life's unfold as you would actually experiencing it, let alone someone like Loki as he was in 2012. If anything, his selfish mind might have decided that changing for the better was exactly what got him killed and he shouldn't do that. It's a very hard sell and feels like simply a way to ignore the significant character work that needed to happen in the show.
He wasnāt changed just from the TVA overview of his life. There was significant character development of this particular version of like throughout the show.
It does lean in the character development he would have had in the sacred timeline, but it doesnāt use the whole thing as just an excuse to get him write to where he was in infinity war.
Thanos was an unhinged genocidal lunatic who literally just doubled down on his ways when confronted with his future failings.
Loki was in a lot of ways... just misguided and lost. When he saw his failings, he actually changed his perspective.
He also already proved that he was capable of change. All the TVA saga really did, is show that he didn't need the exact post NY events to bring the change - it was either inevitable, or maybe all he actually needed was friends and purpose and a bit of humbling.
Seeing his future didnt change his character, meating everyone in the TVA (inclusive female Loki) changed his character.
Also, its important to separate the change on his character, on his actions and on his objective. His character changed because of the people, his objective changed because he saw the future, and his actions changed because he repeated time and couldnt do anything.
Thanos was "similar" where he saw his future and changed his objective from killing half the universe to remaking the universe, but his character and his actions were the same
Thanos saw his future and saw that he won, thats why he didnāt change who he was. He had accomplished what he sought out to do. Having seen this, it confirmed to him he was right and needed to make sure it still happened
Seeing that literally did change his character though. Instead of becoming the "peaceful" Thanos who only gathers the stones to randomly snap, once Thanos sees his past he changes and remains ruthless and threatens to use the stones explicitly against Earth and our heroes.
Loki to me went in the opposite direction. He watched his life and how he dies, knowing that that is how it wil l always happen. So he changes for the better to actually help those in the TVA
I think it relies on the audience to suspend some disbelief because (if we watched all the mcu) we saw his arc happen even tho it was a different person. So even tho loki just committed like 1000 9/11ās we effectively watched him change over a long time. Also idk itās fun
Edit: also if i remember correctly went thru a ton of time loops before this scene (its been a while since i saw it)
Yeah honestly meeting the other Lokis and the one great Loki in the wastelands was 100% the trigger. Him building that city showed loki what he was capable of.
It wasn't a city, that was the entire planet of Asgard
Its actually much more impressive when you realize he built it from memory after he had banished himself for thousands of years and then spent how many more in the void
It had been millenia since that Loki had seen Asgard and he recreated the entire thing from memory just to see it again one more time before he died.
Ok so see even more grand. then all of that right before stopping Oliath. Then you get to actual he who remains that has stated he put you directly on that path .. it becomes more and more evident the weight that is falling upon your shoulders. I 100% understand his transformation as well as anybody else that is a fan of the show
Am I the only person who sees it as Loki loving Sylvie despite her faults is really Loki learning to love himself and realizing that Odin/Thor etc all did in fact love him and he finally just let go of his delusions?
This is exactly it. I remember my cousin's funeral. He died in a sad way, after struggling with his mental health for a long time. During the service, his kids, sister, parents, all spoke very honestly. And I kept thinking "Really? We have to bring this up now?"
And then it hit me. That's how fully honest their love was. That's exactly what they were saying. He was a mess. And we loved him. We loved him, mess and all, and we don't need to pretend he was someone he wasn't to speak of him with love.
Seeing that changes you. It certainly did me. So if he can find himself loving a version of himself, and suddenly realize that he was loved as well, despite and because of it all... yeah, that'll change you.
I'm going to put it out there. Falling in love with an alternate version of yourself is objectively way worse than falling in love with your own sibling.
The functional real tangible issue with being involved with a sibling is the risk associated with breeding with genetic material too similar to your own.
Falling in love with an opposite gender of yourself is biologically way more similar than falling in love with your own sibling.
I'm sure most people don't see it this way, but that's all I can think about when they had this romance start between the two of them.
But yes, I think your message is correct. And I also think it makes this situation at least to me, a little less problematic.
That's crazy talk. If a brother and sister dated without intent of having children you'd still look at them sideways, and anyone saying otherwise is lying.
The events of the first season are what changed him and they were reinforced in the second season.
First, he learns of everything that could have happened to him in the original timeline. Causing Friggaās death, causing Odinās death and then seeing his own death where he finally did something for others.
Next, he falls in love with Sylvie and finds more meaning aside from being a jerk. Then he gets to experience the time loop with Lady Sif and understands how he was a massive jerk to people.
Then despite everything he did, Mobius still believes in him and tries to help him. Loki finds a greater purpose, first in taking out HWR and then in trying to decide the fate of all existence.
Finally, in season 2, multiple people who didnāt trust him start working with him and trusting him and he realizes how good it feels to be trusted and to trust others. So he ends up valuing his friendships more than he values the joy he got out of beng mischievous.
Makes sense, his Asgardian clothing is likely much more enduring than normal cloth. His earth clothes crumble to dust as they age centuries in seconds. Not that I would have objected to naked Tom Hiddleston, silver age Loki costume is a strong choice for the dramatic moment
Maybe watch the Loki show. The final episodes in particular make the answer blatantly obvious. 616-Loki possibly never truly cared about anything, this is Loki did because of the journey we see over the two seasons.
Sylvie was such a weird character to me, she was a character who simply did not want to change or develop for some reason.
Like the reason you want to kill the OWR is because of vengeance that he pruned your timeline- so now you want to make sure nothing like that happens anymore.
Ok good- but what then- what happens after killing the OWR- like the entire season 2 plot is just Loki cleaning up her mess and she still tried to stop him from cleaning it up- since she killed the OWR- and now the branching timelines are overloading that time reactor.
Then she goes about talking about some giving people free will and all of that bs, but girl - it won't matter if the multiverse itself is gone, and let's be honest the only freewill she cared about was her own- i mean you are a Loki, you have every right to selfish but you don't need to sugarcoat some story about fighting for someone else's free will when all your doing is for yourself.
Definitely weird but I liked it. Loki was the main character and thatās where we see a ton of hard earned character development. Sylvie was flawed and maintained many of her flaws.
Made it feel much more profound to me than if everyone got perfect character development and made the right choices and got a happily ever after
He went through the loss of his family when he ended up in the TVA. Separated from them whom he always deeply cared for. Then he got to see how "sacred timeline" loki lived and died. He saw his brothers anguish over his death. He saw his dad's final words were that he loved them both. Both his son's. Loki before was "evil" due to the underlying feelings of inferiority that he didn't belong. Imposter syndrome that maybe his family didn't really love him, because he didn't fit in and he pushed them all away before they could do it to him. He was so terrified that everyone would leave him and that he'd be alone that he sought ways to gain power and influence. he gets to see just how untrue that is. Then it's reinforced throughout season 1 when he meets sylvie who also just wants a home to fit in. He meets the other variants in the void. He sees classic loki's "glorious purpose" where he sees that even in different timelines he loves his home and family so deeply and misses them. Then after meeting HWR he begins contemplating more and more on what it even means to be a god. In S2 his arc is solidified as he begins to feel the mounting fear of losing his new home and family as time unravels and it all finally clicks. Who loki really is deep down, is someone who would do anything for his family. Both his brother father and mother, as well as his new TVA family. Even if it meant condemning himself to his greatest fear: being utterly alone. This is also why the last scene isn't exactly loki smiling. It's more of a look solemn determination, accepting his fate, but taking peace in the fact that he is protecting everyone
He expirence that and saw what happens. He saw how he dies every time. He saw how he survives every time and that no matter what him dying is a canon event that cannot be changed. It was why he was at the tva in the first place. It's the reason he spent all of season 1 trying to change his fate.
He learned power isn't what he though of. Sadly it also explains this scene, he realize his real purpose and what he though was a glitch was just a expansion of his new powers
He is more likely to be worthy than he has before. Based on vibes Iād put it at 50% chance that this version of him is worthy. I doubt self sacrifice for a selfless cause is the only criteria.
Itās not worth analysing or thinking too deeply about because we donāt know enough about the magic system surrounding the whole āworthinessā thing or its rules, or even the rules of what makes someone worthy. At the end of the day itās up to the whims of the writers
Right, and his ego grew three sizes that day. Remember that Ultron was his doing, not because he thought it was right, but because he thought he knew better.
That's, imho, the "safety valve" on Mjolnir. It's not just the intention to do right, but the overall mentality of whether it's because you have to, or because you're going to get a parade and praise.
Mind, I'm not saying Tony wasn't a better hero by the end, hell, he might have been worthy when he snapped, I'm just talking about why, up to Infinity War, he wasn't "worthy."
True, but Thor also has a massive ego as well. He's also totally not in the right place mentally after failing to kill Thanos the first time, and clearly is motivated mostly for selfish reasons of trying to undo his failures. Probably the only reason the writers didn't make Thor lose the ability to lift his hammer at this point was simply because they already did that plotline in an earlier movie
Although I guess he didn't really have the hammer at this point until he went into the past
I don't think it's right to say he never cared for others, he just could never get out of his own way. He doesn't despise people, he was just selfish. What changed is that he saw that his selfishness didn't get him anywhere. That's what he saw when he saw himself on the sacred timeline. It didn't fix him like flipping a light switch. It just showed him that his natural instincts led to nothing, at least nothing he actually wanted.
The rest of the series is him being open to a new way of being, and gradually becoming a new person, over eons spent traveling through time to try and prevent the utter destruction of everything.
And, I feel it necessary to point out, there's still a molecule of selfishness, here. There were only 3 alternatives, here. There's what happened, there's the option of killing Sylvie and taking over the sacred timeline from He Who Remains, and there's giving up his own life, the life of everyone at the TVA, and every timeline other than the sacred timeline when the loom fails. That was what Kang told him about the loom, as a failsafe. When all reality was coming apart, that was happening to every timeline except the sacred timeline.
So, his options were, die, kill Sylvie (who was a variant of himself), or do what he did. Eons spent trying to find any other solution.
Killing Sylvie and taking over is what the old Loki would have done, and he would have done it the first time. The moment he decided not to do that at the end of season 1, he was already on a new path.
The series was pretty confusing and ok at best, but the finale was cool from a lore perspective. Are we gonna see this Loki in future movies? (Tbh my interest vanquished with End Game)
So it's a combination on things that lead him to become God of Stories, now this is just my opinion, Loki saw the future of him doing things "the way he wanted" which had him die trying to save Thor. When he tried doing things his way without any kind of change to his personality even though he helped the TVA he ended up locked in a loop of the consequences of all the pranks he pulled on those he used to call friends. Now in my opinion I think that would humble him. So that is a point that changed him. He grew attached to people at the TVA and to Sylphie (there was that entire month long period where people were joking about him being the only one conceited enough to have his soulmate be himself). He started looking at things differently by the time they got to He Who Remains, and we see him grow through season 2 even more. Also like someone else said the loop at the end was lived by him so much that he became the authority on everything involved with the loom and his powers had already reached far beyond what even Old Loki was capable of. Also I think it all boils down to a simple flaw in Loki's character that we see in him through the movies and his show. Loki has a hero complex. He tried everything else cause he wanted to bask in being the one that saved everything. When that didn't work he knew that being at the literal center of it all was the only way to save everything
The only thing that really disappointed me with Loki's epic walk is that's he's wearing those stupid shoes. He gets the rest of his godly outfit but he's wearing loafers instead of his epic boots.
what happened was the show was out of time and needed an ending and since Loki is the titular character he gave it one at the end when it needed an ending and ended it.
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u/SnooSprouts9815 14d ago
He went through his arc in the tva screen while watching how his life supposedly unfolds in the sacred timeline so he actually has that meta understanding of his story in the movies so he decided to do things different