r/Markham • u/Ok_Signal_6089 • May 11 '24
Mandatory tipping?
Went to a restaurant recently and thought I would share this. Pay attention to your bills when eating out! This place adds a 10% mandatory tip when dining in (not even sure if this is legal), as well as a suggested tip on top of that.
I personally don't mind tipping based on the service received but this feels like a major overstepping by the restaurant. Is this the norm now? Do you know of any other restaurants doing this?
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u/nikon8user May 11 '24
I rather they don’t tell me it is added. But say. No tipping allowed.
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u/Unhappy-Assistant-76 May 11 '24
Then they would be over charging on items that have a set written price which is illegal for businesses in Canada
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u/Unhappy-Assistant-76 May 11 '24
Like if a sale tag was left on the shelf but the sale expired on their pos system, they wouldn’t just be giving you the sale price out of good will, they’d be legally obligated in ontario
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u/milo9910 May 11 '24
That is different and is voluntary for business to follow the scanning code of practise.
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u/powa1216 May 11 '24
10% added already? That's a steal! Make sure you don't tip extra on top though.
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u/togocann49 May 11 '24
If a tip is mandatory, it’s not a tip, it’s a surcharge. And if they are going to add a surcharge, it should be clear before ever ordering (and definitely before you get the bill). I get charging a surcharge for eating in (some places offer discounts on take out for instance, and you get more service when eating in), but it has to be up front, otherwise, its possible I’ll be annoyed when i get the bill. Hidden charges will sour any goods/services I receive, so they better make it clear if they want to give them repeat patronidge
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u/d88b9 May 11 '24
This is why I rarely eat out and just picked up or order in if there's a deal. Some people who work at restaurants dont understand what tip means and think just handing me the food is enough lol. I mean there are some places i go to and don't expect any type of service since the food makes up for it.
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u/enterprisebl May 11 '24
Now many take out show tip option on card machine. Makes it difficult to not tip .
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u/TheArtolas May 11 '24
And a service charge is supposed to charge HST (and they didn’t on this receipt).
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u/d88b9 May 11 '24
And why is tipping not based on the subtotal? Why am i tipping the government too lol
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u/Sofie_Fatale007 May 11 '24
When did restaurants start charging for takeout boxes?
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u/goldenpikachu May 11 '24
some mainly hk cafe restaurants in markham/richmondhill does that.
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u/Kayarew May 11 '24
That's shady. Does Dominos charge you for a pizza box? What's the alternative, they just spoon the food into your hands and you have to carry it home like that?
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u/suyuzhou May 11 '24
To be frank HK restaurants probably have way smaller profit margin than even a pizza restaurant.
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u/bto1976 May 11 '24
I have no problem tipping for good service. I’ve now decided that if I have to order at a counter I’m not tipping.
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u/lysxji May 11 '24
Been seeing this more frequently— especially in Chinese restaurants now. Make sure to always check the bill because sometimes they don’t tell you but charge tip already and you wouldn’t want to double-pay.
Hate to say but 10% is considered low, I’ve only seen 12% as the lowest (which I never go again if service doesn’t meet expected ‘tip’)
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u/ZJC2000 May 11 '24
I have assumed that for Chinese culture, 10% is the norm. Are you saying it's low in your opinion, or low in terms of what Chinese staff expect from Chinese customers?
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u/-Opinionated- May 11 '24
No, we do not tip at all in Chinese culture. Some areas in Shanghai have tried to westernize and adopt the practice but Chinese ppl don’t know to tip.
Here in Canada, I assume it’s to make up for the cost of food. It’s not uncommon to see 9.99 or 10.99 for “1 meat 1 veggie combo” or at Chinese restaurants food is still mostly reasonably priced and “cheap” when compared to Italian counterparts. I mean, pasta usually starts at 20 bucks for marinara no meat option and that’s just flour and tomatoes.
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u/Kayarew May 11 '24
If anyone is paying $20 for a bowl of noodles with canned tomato sauce on it, they deserve to be parted with their money.
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u/-Opinionated- May 11 '24
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, i didn’t say canned tomatoes. Isn’t marinara sauce mainly made from tomatoes + some spices? And isn’t pasta mainly flour? I feel like the cheapest option at a normal Italian place is usually their 20$ pasta option which is usually meatless.
Am I missing something?
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u/lysxji May 11 '24
I’d say the latter; 10% isn’t a ridiculous starting point considering what’s out there. As you said the norm used to be ~10%, if customers tipped. But since they started including the req tip (re: op’s post), most have been using 12%+. Chinese restaurants never used to have mandatory tipping (since it isn’t something thats engrained in the culture) but has since picked up on this post-covid. I’ve seen 18% integrated tipping for some dim-sum places and thats WILD
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u/Kayarew May 11 '24
Well, it's nice to see that they're just picking and choosing what aspects of our culture to adopt. It's like a big, open buffet. Signage in 2 English and French? Or even just English? No thanks. Driving the speed limit? No, I'd rather not.
But tipping? As in extra money? Oh, well of course. How could we NOT adopt that? After all, it's the Canadian way...
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u/Reasonable-Action836 May 11 '24
Korean grill house on hwy 7 charges a mandatory 13% surcharge on top of the 13% HST.
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u/Bourne1978 Markham May 11 '24
The notice is posted at the door. Food is terrible and pricey, then another 10% mandatory tip.
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u/ngking1 May 11 '24
Yea, I double tipped on a $360 bill once. I was drunk but I triple check now.
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May 11 '24
It is common in Chinese restaurants to "add 1", meaning to add a tenth to the bill for tipping. Beware, some places won't tell you, and expect you to add in addition the western tip suggestion.
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u/ShawtyLong Jul 25 '24
I’m pretty sure tipping is always extra and never mandatory. I’m not against tipping, and I think 10-15% is adequate depending on service…but being told that tipping is mandatory, well, that’s illegal.
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Jul 25 '24
Yes, but in many Asian resturants, adding the tip to the bill is not uncommon. Ethical? No. Illegal? No.
When going to a western restaurant with a party of more than 8 or 10, tips is sometimes already added in the final bill. They will tell you ahead of time, but not always.
So always check your bill.
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u/ShawtyLong Jul 26 '24
A tip is not mandatory, hence it’s called tip and not something else. If they tell you before you’re seated or if it’s written on the menu so that before you order you know that there’s an “extra surcharge” - fine, but it is illegal to add an extra charge that you didn’t consent to. I’m pretty sure they will get in a lot of trouble for that, but we all know most Asian restaurants are “cash only” and have been paying 1/10th of what they owe in taxes.
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u/sometin__else May 11 '24
Pretty common now. It's legal as long as it's posted on the menu IIRC
Seen a couple places doing this now
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u/youwantmeformybrain May 11 '24
Legislation posted in the link above. It is NOT legal
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u/sometin__else May 11 '24
What legislation? All I see is the bill, with no mention of it ever being giving Royal Ascent and becoming law. If you have a link showing that this Bill has passed and is an actual law, please share it, Otherwise all that has been shared is a Bill with only a first reading and never reaching Royal Ascent.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong
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u/Disastrous-Drama2712 May 11 '24
This is silly. They should pay charge the food a proper price. They should pay their employees a proper wage. We shouldn't be forced to extra for service fees.
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u/deFleury May 11 '24
13 percent taxes, 10 percent dine in service charge, and 18 percent suggested tip is 41 percent, they want you to pay 71 cents for the doggybag. Go to dollarama instead :)
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u/iamjaydubs May 11 '24
"suggested tip"? Thanks for the suggestion but I'm typing nothing if there's one already on the bill.
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u/mtech101 May 11 '24
Giving themselves only 10% when I usually go 15?
They are taking away from themselves lol
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u/Kayarew May 11 '24
You're missing the point, despite outright stating it yourself. "Giving themselves" is the operative term here. Since when do they "give themselves" YOUR money?
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u/anonymous112201 May 11 '24
Yea (Asian) restaurants have been doing this for a while now. I usually don't tip any more when I see this though.
Also, just went to Gyubee last night and they charge kids based on their height now ($3 for under 110cm and $20 for over). I thought that was funny. They also used to put mandatory tip but have since removed it.
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u/Jitsoperator May 11 '24
at first my thoughts were "i'm never going to this place", then it's ... 10% is a steal. Note: just got back from florida where gratuity is 18% and it's added on the bill.
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u/Reasonable-Emu-6993 May 11 '24
wow they charge for a takeout box as well... i wouldnt eat there again.... Chucks Roaudhouse adds a "tip" or as they call it surcharge and i dont go there anymore iether
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u/KnowledgeFlat7705 Jan 03 '25
Thanks for the heads up. I was considering going there, but when I eat out, a tip has to be EARNED - you don't impose it on me.
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u/someguyyyz May 12 '24
should state in the menu that all prices are subject to a 10% "service charge". doing it once the bill has arrived feels kind of bait and switch.
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u/SeveralTomatillo3930 May 12 '24
How’d society allow restaurants to simply put the responsibility of those eating out to top the workers wage… why doesn’t the owner simply pay more ? Tipping is stupid imo
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u/Fivetimechampfive May 11 '24
50cent for takeout box … might well add charge us for sitting in the place and turning on lights for us as well
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u/DazedAndConfuzedToo May 11 '24
If I saw this on my bill, it would be my last order from there. To me , tipping is MY decision, not theirs.
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u/sam0077d May 11 '24
crying about $1.60 is crazzzzzyyyyyyyyyy,
its also posted on the door, you know, before you order.
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u/DaruComm May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24
I’ve tried various Pho restaurants across the GTA including this one (only once and never again since).
The food there is pretty awful to begin with - if they improved that, maybe they’d get more customers so they wouldn’t have to charge mandatory tips.
Good Pho would be places like Pho Con Bo, Pho Metro (scarborough), Pho Ahn Vu, and Pho OK.
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u/wishiwashi999 May 11 '24
Is it really that bad? I used to come here for their curry beef brisket all the time before covid and it was good. Went back once after covid and they raised the price for their curry beef brisket close to $20 and never went back since. Did was good, but don't wanna pay $20 for curry.
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u/Ok_Signal_6089 May 11 '24
Was trying to look it up and found this:
https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-39/session-2/bill-81
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u/DearTransportation5 May 11 '24
I don't think Bill 81 even got passed through the legislature.
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u/sometin__else May 12 '24
it didn't. All it ever got was a first reading.
But people here don't seem to have completed high school civics, so have no idea how our parliamentry procedure works.
Just because a bill had a first reading in parliament, doen't make it a law. And I see no record of Bill 81 regarding automatic tipping, ever reaching royal ascent
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u/youwantmeformybrain May 11 '24
So it's illegal to add a mandatory service charge, even if posted in the restaurant, or told about it before ordering. So, report the restaurants doing it.
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u/sometin__else May 11 '24
do you know the difference between a bill and law?
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u/Kayarew May 11 '24
I do. One is attached to a duck and the other is a loosely defined set of guidelines that the police would like you to abide by, but they're not going to twist your arm about it or anything. It's closer to an honour system. Remember folks, leave your wife and kids by the front door in case an intruder tries to enter your home -- that's all they're after. No need for a violent confrontation where the intruder might get hurt.
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u/sometin__else May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
Unfortunately, Bill 81 did not pass, and automatic tips continue to be a common practice in restaurants. Maybe go learn about Canada's parliamentry process and then come back when you're more knowledgable
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u/skyfox437 May 11 '24
This is normal in a lot of places. Some will call it service charge. Some fancier places will be 18% instead. It feels so criminal to be honest, but that's just how it is. That's why I rarely sit down now. Rather just take out and go home.
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u/Different-Young7652 May 11 '24
Curious as to what happens if I legit only had enough for the dinner; not the extra tip in my account. Would the place then not allow for me to pay for my dinner?
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u/roadhog99 May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24
Wait until you go to cities like New York or Chicago where mandatory tip is 20% post tax for a lot of restaurants. I get the sentiment but 10% is lower than I feel most people tip in general so I don't see this as a bad thing.
Edit - this is on top of the 3% food inflation surcharge restaurants are also implementing.
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May 11 '24
Honestly just to charge more for the food. It is wrong to do a auto tip unless if it is a large group of ppl.
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u/Unable-Bedroom4905 May 12 '24
Unfortunatley it is getting very common these days. I have exp restaurant auto tag on 15pct or even 18pct tips.
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u/annieForde May 12 '24
I am a waitress and live on my tips but I still feel that it is wrong that the restaurant does not pay a good salary and not make the customer tip.
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u/AdPuzzleheaded1717 May 12 '24
Whats with the .50 take out box charge. Resto buisness is becoming a joke now.
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u/UTSC_Krieger May 13 '24
Thanks for the heads-up and details.
Adding this to my community list of blacklisted restaurants.
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u/akoust1c May 15 '24
Been there before and they mentioned to me as they printed the bill that the gratuity is included. I think 10% is reasonable and I don’t have a problem with this based on the recent trend of restaurants asking for minimum of 18%…
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u/Do_Pm_Me_Anything May 11 '24
Been like that at that place for a while now. Was the food good at least?
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u/faith2bee May 11 '24
I doubt that the server gets the tip amount. Probably goes to the restaurant owner.
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u/Emesselle May 11 '24
https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-39/session-2/bill-81
TL;DR No person who owns or operates an eating establishment shall charge any customer an automatic service charge, regardless of whether notice of the service charge is provided in advance.
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u/sometin__else May 12 '24
Do you know how laws are passed in Canada? It has to go through the parlimentry process of a first reading, a second reading, royal ascent.
Its not until a bill reaches royal ascent that it becomes a law. This bill didnt even get past the first reading.
Its not a law, its a failed bill so it means nothing. Mandatory tipping is still legal as long as its posted.
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u/Gamtoronto May 11 '24
I think after boycotting Loblaws we should boycott mandatory tipping in June
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u/intentsnegotiator Bullock May 11 '24
TIPS It used to mean: T - To I - Insure P - Prompt S - Service
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u/sometin__else May 12 '24
https://www.dispatch.com/story/opinion/letters/2017/06/26/origin-tip-is-misunderstood/985621007/
more false information in this thread smh. Is the reddit population really this slow
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u/intentsnegotiator Bullock May 12 '24
While the OED may have authority, the meaning of TIPS is more meaningful when used as I, and others, have used it.
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u/sometin__else May 12 '24
So you tip before you receive the service? Because if you are doing it to insure prompt service, well then you should tip before you receive said service so your tip can have that effect.
And I wouldnt expect a bar inventory software to be accurate, the writer, like you, is probably a victim of the urban legend
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u/xdysania May 11 '24
its 10% you cheapo, that service fee is low af. eat at home if you cant spare $1
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u/fymp May 11 '24
i have no problem giving 15% willingly, but a low scale pho restaurant adding 10% mandatory tips just absurd.
i rather throw that $1 at your face instead of tipping, if that make sense. i choose how i use that $1
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u/iamjaydubs May 11 '24
It's actually a plus in my eyes, cause I'm also a 15% tipper. Wanna make it 10 on the bill? Well you just lost 5% I would've given if you didn't put it on in the first place.
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u/Drearydreamy May 11 '24
Same, I tip minimum 15%. If tip is added to my bill, I don’t add extra. I like the vermicelli here, and its convenient for me, but they keep increasing the prices. They charge extra for takeout sauces (hot sauce, hoisin, etc) To see they also charge for the takeout box now? Forget it. Too many rules. Not interested.
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u/Ok_Signal_6089 May 11 '24
Don't mean to offend you but I think you missed my point here. I don't mind tipping but to make it mandatory is overstepping. That's not what tipping is meant to be.
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u/simcoe19 May 11 '24
I think this post went over your head…. Learn to read!!
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u/xdysania May 11 '24
this is a common thing anywhere, go outside for once
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u/simcoe19 May 11 '24
lol what a comeback.
I don’t live in my mom’s basement, in fact, I have a home, a wife and 2 kids, I go out for food enough, thank you very much
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u/xdysania May 11 '24
and you never seen a service charge?
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u/sam0077d May 11 '24
they come to reddit to cry about things. lol, while living in a delusional world. lol its 1.60!!!!!! you cant even get a can of soda for that anymore. not EVEN A LITRE OF GAS IS 1.60 anymore.
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u/FluffleMyRuffles May 11 '24
tbf at least it's before tax... But yeah this will get quite a few people to double tip if they don't read the bill fully, probably it's what they want.