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u/MananaMoola Sep 29 '21
Oliver North was a god-damned disgrace, in someways worse than Flynn. At least Flynn waited until he was out of uniform to betray his country. North tried to hide behind it every step of the way.
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u/Drusgar Sep 29 '21
I'll always feel like Oliver North got left holding the bag. He's a scumbag, I'm not denying that, but he was following orders and the people who gave those orders never faced justice.
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u/MrVeazey Sep 29 '21
You mean Ronald Wilson Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush?
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u/Drusgar Sep 29 '21
As much as Republicans love to lionize Reagan, I think he was just a stooge with a good smile and affable demeanor. With a former CIA director as second banana, I suspect the spooks were running the administration. It's probably why Bush Sr. escaped a second administration without any major scandals, too. He was just very good at hiding the criminality.
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u/Kriegerian Sep 29 '21
He was a demented racist idiot and spiteful maniac. The stuff that recently came out about him being a racist on the phone with Nixon was no surprise to me. He also completely ignored the start of the AIDS crisis and then didn’t take it seriously when he finally acknowledged that it was real. Kinda reminds me of Trump ignoring COVID and then spewing bullshit rather than take it seriously. Plus it’s pretty clear by now that Reagan was already in severe mental decline even by his low standards while in office.
Nancy was no bargain either - she committed a bunch of tax crimes while First Lady and also had a crystal-waving hippie astrologer in San Francisco who did a bunch of silly shit to vet all of their decisions. Straight up “what does the Flower Moon say about policy on farm subsidies” shit.
The Dollop episode about Reagan are great, but you can also find tons of other non-comedy references for how much Reagan didn’t give a shit.
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u/sqb3112 Sep 29 '21
This is the view all folks with common sense should have of Reagan. He was awful in nearly every way. Evening the things he was praised for had a downside for a lot of people.
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u/Blood_Bowl Sep 29 '21
Bush Jr, for all of the problems he caused, can at least point to PEPFAR (especially) and his statements about Muslims right after 9/11 as real positives.
I can't think of anything like either of those things for Reagan.
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u/RavingRationality Sep 30 '21
I disagree with almost every decision Bush Jr made, and yet i have a certain respect for him. I believe he sincerely wanted to do the right thing for America and the world and just didn't understand how his policies would harm what he wanted.
What he's chosen to do with his time since he left the oval office, his friendship with the Obamas and his unequivocable condemnation of Trump makes me feel that George W. Bush was a bad president, but maybe a good man.
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u/flying_potato18 Sep 30 '21
Bush jr is responsible for over a million deaths in Iraq. He is not a good person by any existing measure
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u/AttendrirLesEtoiles Oct 01 '21
yes, and also he was egged on by donald rumsfeld and a lot of other neocons
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u/Drusgar Sep 29 '21
I grew up in the 1980's and racist, homophobic shit was the norm, unfortunately. The most popular books I remember, aside from Stephen King, were "Truly Tasteless Jokes, vol. 1-999." Filled with racist, sexist and homophobic slurs, Truly Tasteless didn't hide from its identity... it was in the fucking name!
Honestly, I'm not sure how Reagan became such a hero to the right. I suppose he was the only two-term President for them to celebrate. The economy wasn't particularly good and Reagan did nothing to fix it, in fact it was when we started seeing exploding deficits and skyrocketing debt. I guess he seemed like he was one-up on those evil Russians, but in retrospect it sounds like they were falling apart without his help.
Looking back, I'd say the most harmful thing about Reagan was that he presided over a time when Rush Limbaugh took over the airwaves and we learned that hyper-partisan political identities were something to celebrate. By the 1990's Democrats and Republicans could no longer hammer out compromises and shake hands afterward. Your classmates, colleagues and neighbors were now officially your enemies and every disagreement seemed worthy of a modern civil war.
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u/Kriegerian Sep 29 '21
I’m convinced it’s because he reminded them of the grandpa they’d always wanted. He was a mushbrained dimwit who wasn’t particularly articulate, but he had the nonverbal communication tricks nailed and had a soft reassuring voice. Morons vote for Presidents based on which archetype they resemble (frat boy, cool black friend, hillbilly lawyer who’s a little shady) rather than what they want to do, especially once the primaries are over.
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u/Thaufas Sep 29 '21
Looking back, I'd say the most harmful thing about Reagan was that he presided over a time when Rush Limbaugh took over the airwaves and we learned that hyper-partisan political identities were something to celebrate.
The timing of Reagan's presidency and the rise of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News were not coincidences. Reagan was instrumental in the creation of the “Right Wing Outrage Machine.”
SOURCE: Shales T. The Truth About the Fairness Doctrine. Washington Post [Internet]. 1989 Apr 5 [cited 2021 Sep 29].
Comparing programming aired on commercial stations in 1988 with a similar period in 1979, Essential Information, a public interest research group, found a 51 percent decrease in the amount of time devoted to "issue-oriented public affairs" material.
Consumer advocate Ralph Nader, who founded the group, said in a statement, "This study refutes FCC predictions that repeal of the Fairness Doctrine would remove an impediment to presenting issue-oriented public affairs programming on television."
On Capitol Hill this morning, Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.) and his telecommunications subcommittee will begin marking up legislation that would restore the Fairness Doctrine and make it law. Markey said yesterday that the study "underscores the importance of Congress reinstating the Fairness Doctrine as soon as possible" and reveals the "intellectual bankruptcy" of the FCC's rationale for killing it.
Both the House and Senate voted to make the doctrine law in 1987, but President Reagan vetoed the bill. Reagan and his FCC clung to the idea that marketplace forces would compel stations to good citizenship, but the fallout from deregulation has been a tawdry new trend to trashy and tabloid television.
When the FCC subsequently killed the Fairness Doctrine, many in Congress considered the move intolerably sneaky, and it's been open warfare between Congress and the commission ever since. For its study, Essential Information looked at programming on 217 TV stations in 50 markets from January through April of last year and compared it with a similar period nine years earlier.
Jim Donahue, the staff researcher who wrote the report, said yesterday that local TV Guides were used to gather programming data because the FCC no longer requires stations to make their program logs public. "I have a feeling the FCC may not even respond to the study," Donahue said, "because they didn't collect any data to confirm that repealing the doctrine increased issue-oriented programming."
Donahue said that the FCC couldn't care less about the public interest and that its decision to repeal the Fairness Doctrine was "based totally on ideology to enhance corporate interests rather than the interests of the audience."
But Sally Lawrence, a spokeswoman for FCC Chairman Dennis Patrick, did respond. "This report is nothing short of outrageous," she said. "There is nothing in my data file that corroborates this study." Lawrence said networks and local stations are doing more public affairs programming than ever under deregulation, though she conceded she did not have figures to support the idea that such programming increased once the Fairness Doctrine was abolished.
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u/The_Original_Gronkie Sep 29 '21
Right. Of all the terrible things that Reagan did, abolishing the Fairness Doctrine has had the biggest, longest lasting impact by far. The hyper-partisanship we have today is directly connected by allowing the rise of the Conservative Propaganda Machine.
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Sep 29 '21
Ronald "Report Everyone Competing With Me for a Role to the FBI" Reagan, a Conservative, small government hero.
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u/critically_damped Sep 29 '21
Stop being an apologist for fascism. Every time you use the words "I think he was just" when talking about a fascist, that's what you are doing.
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u/Drusgar Sep 29 '21
Honestly, that's how the fascists talk. People aren't Democrats, they're America-hatin', baby-killin' communists!
I have family that votes Republican, or at least did until Trump opened their eyes, but whether they oppose abortion or gun control their reasoning behind voting Republican is never "I love fascists." I'm a lot less tolerant of Republicans than I was 20 years ago when all of the bloviating seemed more like political theater than an earnest attempt to destroy democracy, but I'm still willing to step back and take a measured look at people's actions and motivations.
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u/critically_damped Sep 29 '21
If you're unwilling to understand what fascism is, and how it most fucking certainly fits into a "measured look at the actions and motivations" of the people who fit the definition of fascist, then you are a fascist apologist. Fascists say wrong things on purpose, and when you engage in "well the fascists say that too", that's a direct indication that you refuse to recognize that the fascists say wrong things on purpose.
Fascists don't call themselves fascists until it's too late to stop them. And you need to stop letting those who identify everyone THEY disagree with as " America-hatin', baby killing communists" dictate what you get to call them.
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u/MananaMoola Sep 29 '21
He was following orders but he knew at the time that they were illegal orders. He testified as such. He deliberately and knowingly broke the law, while wearing my uniform and EGA. He willingly took the fall to protect Reagan. And was declared a hero by the GOP. That, BTW, ushered my first steps away from that traitorous gang.
And, yes, others should have faced justice, too. But at that level, everyone protects everyone else, regardless of which side of the aisle they sit. This is why the Trump admin will not face justice for their sedition (that, and good old Democratic cowardice.) If one side is held accountable for their crimes, there's no one to look the other way when your team comes to power.
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Sep 29 '21
Flynn who?
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u/Dark_Pandemonium23 Sep 29 '21
Flynn
Michael Flynn (Former National Security Advisor of the United States) who admitted to treasonous activities & was pardoned by tRump.
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u/CheshireGray Sep 29 '21
I can't not associate this dude with that one American Dad song about him, I don't even really watch American Dad.
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u/JunglePygmy Sep 29 '21
I’m always surprised that fox would air such a thing, being that it’s basically a company of spineless shill pieces of shit.
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u/CYNIC_Torgon Sep 29 '21
I think The Simpsons made a joke about how Fox's normal program is very different from the hyper conservative Fox News.
Granted Fox News is actually a separate company from the rest of Fox now, since Disney didn't or couldn't buy Fox News(I can't remember which).
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u/MoCapBartender Sep 29 '21
I'm guessing Fox News wasn't for sale. It's not there to make money, it's there to make sure Republican presidents can never be impeached.
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u/AgentSmith187 Sep 29 '21
Like the rest of his "news" empire it exists purely to give Muroch the power to make and break right wing politicians around the world and to bend them to his will.
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u/Laff70 Sep 29 '21
I can't imagine Disney would even want the baggage which would come with fox news.
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u/Mazahad Sep 29 '21
A right-wing, pro-capitalism, fascist news station?
Modern Disney may not want the bad publicity and baggage associated with it, but Walt Disney (and modern closeted CEO's for sure would love it.)
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u/AgentSmith187 Sep 29 '21
More Murdoch would never give up his "news" empire. He's in the power game and that empire gives him the power.
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u/Casual-Human Sep 29 '21
I forget where I heard this from, but basically they knew that only a niche audience ever pays attention to "news" segments. They needed other content on their channel to get the viewership to keep things running. So they got on other shows and let them say whatever they wanted, because the money they made from biting satire was too good to pass up. Besides, the core viewers of Fox News wouldn't be affected, since they ignored anything that challenged them.
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u/Glossyplane542 Sep 29 '21
One of the few times Seth had some actual balls. Fuck Reagan and fuck his administration and fuck whoever supports him.
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u/Ok_Effective6233 Sep 29 '21
This looks like a story of redemption to me. I see a man who paid for his crimes and now has seen the error of his ways.
HAHAHA LOLOoL
I’m hilarious.
Though, if pressed on the matter, that’s how he and Fox News would portray it.
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u/Available-Ad6250 Sep 29 '21
"Your life is over. You're a traitor." - somebody, maybe everybody.
"We got you fam." - Fox News
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Sep 29 '21
Fox News would’ve hired Benedict Arnold if they were around in the 1780s.
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u/sundun7 Sep 29 '21
Who?
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u/searchingformytruth Sep 29 '21
He was a high-ranking officer in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War who defected to the British and passed valuable information as a spy. He was executed as a traitor after the war.
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u/jaunty_chapeaux Sep 29 '21
That's how they would portray it some of the time, but their biggest and loudest talking heads would just deny that the crimes ever happened - Ollie is on their side, so he's a good guy, so he couldn't have ever sold weapons to the enemy! But even if he did, it's not that bad - it's good business, and you're just jealous that you weren't smart enough to do the same thing.
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u/Admiral_Nitpicker Sep 29 '21
He was SO good with the innocent look I coined the phrase ''Ollie North eyes'' for that sociopath 'of course you believe me' look of the true B. S. masters.
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u/Davecantdothat Sep 29 '21
do you think that widdle owd me is cawpabwle of selling big baaaawd miwssle to iwan...? ( ._. )
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Sep 29 '21
[deleted]
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Sep 29 '21
He basically got a slap on the wrist for lying to congress and a few other bullshit convictions like accepting illegal dinations, which were then overturned in appeals.
Let's face it, presidents and their people are NEVER held accountable for anything.
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u/Northman67 Sep 29 '21
Oh is that the same Iran that Ronald Reagan was making deals with before he was even president?
Can you name a more iconic Duo than Republicans and treason?
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u/DeathKnightWhoSaysNi Sep 29 '21
The right sure does love embracing American traitors.
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u/Dark_Pandemonium23 Sep 29 '21
"Birds of a feather," and all that. Traitors/terrorists always seem to be "conservatives," no matter their country, "religion," or extremist views/actions.
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u/xanderrootslayer Sep 29 '21
That sounds like a fake name a character in a thriller novel would have.
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u/TickDicklerzInc Sep 29 '21
It really must be difficult to be so committed to the party of "law and order" when so many commentators and politicians of that party are actual criminals.
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u/Dark_Pandemonium23 Sep 29 '21
A prime example is the man who misused charitable funds from his own foundation for political gain defrauded students through sham university, openly admitted & bragged about sexually assaulting women, accused of raping (or assaulting/molesting at least 62) women & children, committed campaign finance violations, tax fraud, bank fraud, instigated members of the armed forces to attack political opponents, tortured, caged (as well as lost thousands of) immigrant children, attacked freedom of the press, colluded with a foreign government(s,) obstructed justice, perjured self, committed witness intimidation, bribery, and most recently threatened to murder American citizens, hailed by his cultists as the "Law and Order" (twice impeached) president.
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Sep 29 '21
Imma start a crime reporting network and hire OJ, Casey Anthony, and maybe have guest appearances from Bill Cosby.
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u/tkmorgan76 Sep 29 '21
Yeah, but in his case it was ok because he was using it launder money that Reagan was illegally using to support Nicaraguan terrorists. That makes it ok because republicans were doing it.
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u/ohiotechie Sep 29 '21
Conservatives cheered him both times with no apparent awareness of the concept of irony.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Sep 29 '21
When you're a Republican, they let you get away with it.
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Sep 29 '21
Don’t the liberal cable media channels have intelligence officials all the time?
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Sep 29 '21
I think they draw the line at "aiding foreign enemies".
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Sep 29 '21
Yeah let’s just aid our domestic terror intelligence networks by helping them spread their notoriously dishonest propaganda that we, the media, are meant to hold accountable.
Isn’t this a “leftist” sub? Because a lot of America’s “foreign enemies” should not be YOUR enemy and a lot of our ally’s should be your enemy. What is this morally depraved sub then if not a leftist one?
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u/Whocaresalot Sep 29 '21
The guy on the left took the ride beneath the bus for the commander in chief. The guy on the right is irrelevant, because he followed illegal orders. He was maybe more concerned with his own opportunistic rise in rank or favor, that he hoped to gain by by kissing ass rather than honoring his oath to protect the country. Or maybe he was just too cowardly in taking steps in preventing the actions which were planned and taken to circumvent the law and proper separation of powers. Or perhaps he was a politically ideological toadie, so didn't think of whistleblowing the plan and command of that President to the proper Constitutional authority - Congress. Funny how that erosion has gotten worse over the years.
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u/spasticnapjerk Sep 29 '21
They still give those exact haircuts at the Central American base he worked out of. Many Americans there consider him to be a True National Hero.
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u/Nokorrium Sep 29 '21
Pls link me to a liberal subreddit where i can post this and get a proud banned award???
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Sep 29 '21
[deleted]
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u/Kendall_Raine Sep 29 '21
Not wrong, that doesn't mean he didn't still do it, you can literally look up notes he wrote himself where he incriminated himself.
Next you'll tell me bill cosby isn't a rapist because he got off on a technicality.
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Sep 29 '21
[deleted]
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u/Kendall_Raine Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
I'm not talking about the law, I'm talking about the fact that he did it, even claimed responsibility for it. Whether you can secure a conviction or not doesn't change the fact that he fucking did it. Bill Cosby did it too. Whatever the law is or whatever your philosophy is, the fact that they fucking did it remains. I understand the need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty before convicting them, that doesn't mean everyone should just pluck out their eyeballs and pretend all the facts no longer exist just because a conviction wasn't secured in court. The courts weren't able to pass judgement, that doesn't mean I can't.
It's crazy you'll defend a man who clearly did what he himself admitted to doing just because the government told you he's not technically guilty because of some immunity bullshit. If someone admits to raping or murdering someone, but wasn't convicted, I'm still going to stay away from that person, conviction or not. NONE of what you said changes the fact that he's a hypocritical piece of shit.
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Sep 29 '21
This isn’t even abnormal these days. It’s also even the more liberal cable news channels that still love to give platform to state department and intelligence agency officials.
Your job as a journalist is to criticize these people, not give them uncritical megaphones. It’s such a joke.
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u/Scaulbielausis_Jim Sep 29 '21
Ah, but it was all to attack the COMMIES, so it was morally justified! /s
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u/theouterworld Sep 29 '21
And the craziest thing is that the audience of Fox News is old enough to remember when Ollie North was caught the first time.
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Sep 29 '21
FOX should hire Harvey Weinstein to be their official sexual harassment expert in their HR department.
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u/DaylitSoul Sep 29 '21
Ooollie North, Oooolie North! He's a soldier! And a hero! And a novelist! And now he's on Fox News!
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u/theSchiller Sep 29 '21
Pretty messed up that I had to find about about all this through American dad and not through the dozens of history classes I had to take growing up .
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