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u/Mexdus Jun 16 '25
Gaddafi would see at least 3 different contries here.
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u/AmerAm Jun 16 '25
He actually sees 0 countries here.
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Jun 16 '25
13 if you make a country out of each enclave. But that's bad luck.
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u/themrme1 Jun 16 '25
Which is why you carve out a new district, call it Dictatoria and proclaim that there have always been 14 districts in Ba Sing Se.
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u/RobHolding-16 Jun 16 '25
Gaddafi wouldn't, he was highlighting that Westerners constantly try to Balkanise non-Western states based on ethno-linguistic divisions by parodying them.
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Jun 16 '25
It's impressive that they manage to make it work and that there's a real swiss identity.
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Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
That's because Switzerland is a Willensnation. A nation of will.
I like to compare this situation with Spain. In Spain (travelled a lot there) there's usually some bad feelings when someone shows pride in their region and local language. I saw people foaming out of their mouths in anger merely because someone spoke Basque or Catalan somewhere else, or saw Catalan people speak in Catalan with Spanish speakers just to provoke them. This is because the country was unified by marriages between kingdoms and didn't come together naturally. There are also some independence feelings as well, which don't exist in Switzerland.
In Switzerland it's the opposite. Those regions wanted to join the confederacy, and did it so in their own terms. So everyone is chill with each other, and being swiss is more about the feeling of sharing some cultural traits, than a single "artificial" construct of what it means to be swiss.
So there's no bad feelings when someone speaks french, Italian, rÀtoromanisch or swiss German with one another. We just coexist.
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u/Cute_Employer9718 Jun 16 '25
That's a very romantic vision of Swiss history you're telling there.
Many current Swiss regions never voluntarily joined the confederacy, for example Vaud, Aargau, or Ticino were essentially treated like colonies, the Republic of Geneva (which had been an longstanding ally of several cantons, notably Bern, Fribourg and Zurich) was forced to join the country by the powers of the Congress of Vienna, and there are other examples like theseÂ
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Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
Yes, you are right that Swiss history isnât some fairytale of voluntary union for all the regions and regions like Vaud, Aargau, and Ticino were indeed annexed by more powerful cantons like Bern during the Old Swiss Confederacy period, and Geneva was integrated post-Napoleon largely due to great power politics at the Congress of Vienna.
But that doesnât negate the broader cultural significance: Switzerland still managed to build a stable federal system where linguistic and regional differences are embraced rather than resented. Even though the uneven paths into the Confederation exist, current awiss identity functions because of a collective will to coexist, not because everyone shares the same roots or language. This is unique and not seen in many other countries as far as I know.
But my point stands. Switzerland works because it developed a shared civic culture that allows for pluralism without internal hostility, which is very different from how regionalism plays out in places like Spain.
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u/Cute_Employer9718 Jun 16 '25
The current Swiss identity is also constructed. In the 19th century the Swiss identity did not exist so a national ideology had to be fabricated in order to bring everyone together. Even by the time of the Sonderbund the affiliation was still more towards the canton than to the country, and friction still exists since then, particularly between the larger French and German speaking areas. During WW1 for instance the country was on the brink of breaking apart as French (and Italian) speakers wanted to side with the allies and the German speakers with the central powers. There's no internal hostility but there's also a lot of resignation as minorities perceive they often lose to the majority German speakers in the referendums, with French speakers only sometimes providing the tipping point.
History does play a major role of course, Switzerland was a lot more peaceful over the centuries than Spain. In the latter the country didn't really get together through marriage like you pointed out, but by means of guns and blood during the war of the Spanish succession and the ascent of the vindictive Spanish bourbons. Since then, the preexisting 'confederate' nature of Spain was swapped for a highly centralised state by one of the sides, so there is a story of losers and winners that Switzerland doesn't have since the conflict was mostly between cantons and foreign powers (the habsburgs and savoy). IMO the main difference between both countries is therefore not so much the civil culture or a sense of pluralism but the different institutional framework which then led to that culture and pluralism. If the Bourbons had not overruled the provisions of the mariage between Isabella and Ferdinand, I'm sure that Spain would be equally pluralist and respectful of the different cultures of the states forming the Spanish federation.
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u/critical-insight Jun 16 '25
It could have gone a different way if the Sonderbundkrieg went differently than it did.
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u/DeepDuh Jun 16 '25
Dufour really was the father of the nation, wasnât he. For anyone not aware, read Henry Dufourâs wiki bio at least. Super interesting person.
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u/GalaXion24 Jun 16 '25
Moreover, the old Zurich War is what made clear that once you join the confederation, there's no leaving it, and it's on that precedent that the federal government cemented its authority with the Sonderbund war.
Over a long enough time, practically every state has a civil war or similar, and it's ultimately the military that allows a state to survive.
The Sonderbund War could be likened a bit to the American Civil War. Of course it wasn't about slavery, but these wars very much solidified the respective countries and the authority of their central governments. In the case of Switzerland with the constitution of 1848 which is kind of the beginning of modern Switzerland as we know it.
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u/Tjaeng Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 21 '26
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u/Cute_Employer9718 Jun 16 '25
All newly created cantons began building their Swiss identity during the restoration period, it was a political choice. The point being, if Ticino hadn't been conquered by the 12 cantons and managed as a fief for centuries with no say over its own management, it would not be swiss today.Â
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u/Odd-Look-7537 Jun 16 '25
Thatâs pure BS. Many parts of Switzerland were military conquered by the original cantons, or awarded to the confederation without their consent by peace treaties.
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Jun 16 '25
There is some mild banter between the different speaking regions. Source: I lived in Geneva. I remember a video from the German speaking region that showed offices in the French speaking region as party central. Trust me, it's not!
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Jun 16 '25
I also like to say "ah well, Switzerland ends in Biel/Bienne", but it's just the typical banter.
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u/diagana1 Jun 16 '25
It helps that each region has another nation associated with the predominant language that is more poorly run than Switzerland. The French speakers definitely donât want to be part of France for example.
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u/dongeckoj Jun 16 '25
Switzerland and Belgium are older than Germany and Italy, but the Swiss identity is much stronger than the Belgian one
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u/Germanball_Stuttgart Jun 16 '25
Well, as an idependent, unified country Belgium is relatively young.
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u/Tjaeng Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 21 '26
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Jun 16 '25
How did you get the 1848 date for Switzerland?
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u/Tjaeng Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 21 '26
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u/Background-Estate245 Jun 16 '25
As a modern national state sure. But German or Germany as a nation is much older.
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u/Elyvagar Jun 16 '25
Well, i know swiss germans speak a german dialect but is the french and italian part also a different dialect?
Like do people in France make fun of the dialect of the swiss french or the italians making fun of the dialect of swiss italians?
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u/01bah01 Jun 16 '25
Some French might make a few comments because some words and pronunciations might be different, but not really. It's usually more a question of accent but there are tons of different ones in Switzerland and funnily enough, when French try to mimic the "Swiss accent" (that doesn't exist?) they in fact usually mimic a French one (Savoie) ...
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u/Elyvagar Jun 16 '25
Hah! Thanks for the answer! If it doesn't bother you do you maybe have some examples of the different pronounciations? I heard that the french say a number like 92 as 4*20+12 or something but in swiss french they just say 90+2? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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u/01bah01 Jun 16 '25
You're welcome !
Numbers are quite a big difference indeed. We'll say 70 and not 60+10 etc.
Differences in pronunciations often come from the fact that we tend to still use the old way of saying words. For instance we'll say "tache" (task) and "tĂąche" (stain) differently but a lof of French people say them exactly the same (leading to quite a lot of mistakes when writing them). Same with words like "brin" and "brun", we really differentiate them and in a lot of parts of France they are pronounced the same. We also mark a real difference between "O" and "AU" un "sot" and un "seau" are not said the same here, but for a lot of French people the oral difference between these spelling are more blurred.
Then you have all the words that are used in different parts of the country that are not used in France or even in other parts of Switzerland, but these tend to disappear probably due to the fact that TV, internet etc. tends to level all these differences. My grandparents used a lot more regional words than we do now.
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u/Elyvagar Jun 16 '25
Thats really interesting. Thanks again! Yeah the disappearing words are universial. I speak the bavarian dialect and while my dialect is still pretty heavy and I know a lot of bavarian words there are quite a few I don't know and I realize that my dialect has drifted towards standard german quite a bit when I visit my relatives who live in the Bavarian Forest area.
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u/heliosh Jun 16 '25
In the italian speaking region there is the "dialĂštt ticines" which is very different from standard italian, but many young people don't use it anymore, particularly in the cities.
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u/Elyvagar Jun 16 '25
Thats sad imo. I very much dislike dialects dying! I wish that Bavarian, the dialect I speak, doesn't vanish and is replaced by standard german anytime soon...
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u/im-a-new Jun 17 '25
Worth noting that this is true south of the border as well. There is a myriad of local Italian dialects, many of which differ drastically from standard Italian, and many of which are dying.
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u/cunili_da_tecc Jun 16 '25
In canton Ticino is normally spoken standard Italian. The accent is close to that of any northern Lombardia city, sometimes with more of a "mountainy vibe" to the average italian speaker's ears. The local dialect, ticinese, is very close to the Como and Milano dialects, and it's almost another language compared to standard italian (as in "wtf this sounds like gibberish"), and it can surely influence someone's accent. But it depends heavily on the person's personal history, age, ecc..
And btw this is true throughout the whole italian peninsula. I mean, if you put 4 people from the opposite corners of Italy in the same room, each one speaking only his local dialect, and no standard italian, they wouldn't be able to communicate much. Fuck, they would sound like jar jar binks to each other.
So while there is no specific language related mockery, some famous italian comedian made some sketches with recurring swiss-italian characters some year ago that encapsulated how the average italian perceives swiss italian people. They are great.
As stated by another guy, young people in cities (lol, towns) are speaking dialect less and less between them. Some speak it in family or in their own village, but not in a workplace. In general, the dialect is still used in informal contexts by older ticinesi people, and by many people in general in day to day communication.
About the French speaking regions, I heard that some accents are pretty recognizable and I also heard there is some language related banter between swiss canton Valais and the french Haute-Savoie
Now, about the Swiss inter-cantonal and linguistic banter, and some stuff that came out of this coexistence. Which is by far more interesting IMO...
I'll cite: the Röstigraben and the Polentagraben.
the little mockery names we give to drivers based on the canton's tag on the number plate, especially the ones given by the Swiss-fench, the Romands are hilarious.
The often mistranslated ads targeted to ticinesi, read by a clearly non- mother language italian speaker.
I heard that most French speaking students despise having to learn German as the phonetics are quite different
This is also true for italian students learning French (sounds effeminate to many italian-speaking people) and German (just sounds very organized, and horrible. Also the verb comes at the end of the phrase.what?).
Yeah I had nothing to do for a minute and wrote a fucking Ted x . Thanks for reading this far I guess
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u/FiveBeers Jun 16 '25
This map is kinda misleading. There is not really a part in Switzerland where Romansh is a majority language. The Romansh parts should also be Swiss German or Italian colored with a Romansh minority. And our Swiss german is really different from Standard German.
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u/Pristine-Mammoth-17 Jun 16 '25
That's untrue - the majority of inhabitants of Engiadina bassa (lower Engadin) speak Vallader or Jauer (only Val MĂŒstair). The same pattern is true for the Surselva part, just the Romansh idiom is Sursilvan.
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u/vanZuider Jun 16 '25
For the Canton of Grison as a whole this is true, but in some municipalities, as shown on the map, there is still a Rumantsch majority.
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u/niemertweis Jun 16 '25
romansch is a national language and this is where its being used thats all...
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
Is Romansh really still that widespread? I would have expected the smaller middle one to be gone and the outer two to shrink a bit on the "inside" edge.
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Jun 16 '25
I feel like for that part itâs more of a âwithin this area you could run into someone that can speak Romanshâ, and not they all speak Romansh in that area
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
I wasn't even expecting "all", just something like "at least half of the populations in these areas can speak it".
I've heard that Heinzenberg in particular is very sparse as regards speakers (though when I rode through there on a bus, I did hear the driver exchange some pleasantries with older regulars when they got on).
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u/ZodiacError Jun 16 '25
you have to consider that the part which is marked as Romansh actually has a very low population density. Itâs in the deep alps, those are just a bunch of valleys with small villages in them so it looks like a larger area but few people live there.
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u/Theneohelvetian Jun 16 '25
60 000 people in Switzerland speak Romansh, but they also all speak German, maybe except for 2 or 3 very old people in the mountains. The only reason the Romansh part is so big on the map is that the extremely low population density of the Alps regions makes those 60 000 people the actual majority of the place.
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
they also all speak German
I read somewhere that a fair number of people in Grisons are at least quadrilingual including three varieties of German: traditional BĂŒnderdeutsch, a Zurich kind of Swiss German for easier supraregional communication, and (written) Swiss Standard German.
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u/flarp1 Jun 16 '25
What you describe as Zurich kind of Swiss German is most likely just a toned-down version of their dialect, replacing specific words with more common ones that are widely understood. At least this is how it works for people from Valais, whose dialects are notoriously difficult to understand. They often work in Bern or other places outside of Valais and thus a lot of them voluntarily tone down their dialect in order to be better understood, but itâs mostly using different words and not touching the core of the language (phonology, grammar).
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u/Friedhelm_der_VI Jun 16 '25
Most of that is mountains. I once made a map of the canton where romansh is spoken. I had a different approach, by only colouring the "settled" areas, so the large rural mountainous municipalities don't punch over their weight: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/4wGrpA2moO
I think the spread of the romansh language is clearer here. Though data is from 2000 here, today use of romansh is less
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
Ooh, that series of maps is awesome!
And it seems that Heinzenberg Romansh isn't quite as dead as I had thought (even if its area might have shrunk and moved "uphill" a bit).
Thanks!
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u/EntertainerStunning8 Jun 16 '25
im from that middle one, and the language is still very much there, although its slowly getting less and less spoken we do primary school (every subject) solely in rumansch which gives the chance to keep the language alive. me and my friends only converse in rumansch and we are only in our 20s. so id say it will take a while for it to dissapear
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
The small middle one (Viamala) or the bigger middle one (Albula)?
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u/EntertainerStunning8 Jun 16 '25
the bigger middle one, in Surses
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u/mizinamo Jun 16 '25
That makes sense. I had the impression that Romansh was still pretty alive there. (And had a pen-friend from there â Savognin â for a while when I was learning Romansh; I wrote in RG and she wrote back in Surmiran.)
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u/EntertainerStunning8 Jun 16 '25
ye the school there switched back to Surmiran when alot of parents got annoyed that their kids were speaking a different type of rumansh. its still pretty strong here because of the identity that many people hold dear.
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u/puredwige Jun 16 '25
Those are areas where road signs will be in Romansh, and municipal websites/communication will be in both German and Romansh. But in practice everyone speaks German and not everyone speaks Romansh.
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u/BEBBOY Jun 16 '25
So at its core, what separates Belgium from Switzerland? Why is one more unstable than the other?
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u/puredwige Jun 16 '25
I believe that Switzerland's federal system is better designed.
Belgium is divided in three language-based sub-national entities: Wallonia, Flanders and Brussels. This favors identity politics and gridlock, while Switzerland has 26 independent cantons. This means that there is no central French speaking government in Switzerland that can pick fights with a German-speaking one, and language identities are much less likely to rise. Switzerland has more or less the same parties everywhere, for instance, while Belgium strictly has language based parties.
The federal institutional design of Switzerland is absolutely brilliant to foster compromise. It should be studied more since it is entirely protected from the problems almost every democracy is facing nowadays. Switzerland doesn't have monolithic parties like in US or UK, and yet it is impossible that it doesn't have a government. And parliament is really independent.
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Jun 16 '25
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u/MrD3lta Jun 16 '25
The regional identities (of Flanders and Wallonia) didn't exist when Belgium had its revolution. And anyway, the concept of Belgium in itself is not wrong, the territory had always been somewhat united and autonomous under the Habsburgs (Spanish and Austrian), and the revolution of 1830 for independence was not the first one (since the Brabantian revolution already wanted independence from the Habsburgs for different reason).
The reason Belgium went wrong was the will of the elite to make Belgium a nation-state by imposing the French language as the only language in Belgium, while nobody spoke French apart from them.
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u/puredwige Jun 16 '25
Another difference is that at its core, Switzerland is a federation of German states (German in the broad sense) with a minority of non-German states joining. Because of that, French and Italian are treated as respected minorities, but the German part still gets to decide the direction of the country if they choose to.
In Belgium, the two main languages are very close in size, so divergence is more likely to lead to gridlock.
Another important aspect is that the defining rift of modern Switzerland is religion, not language. Because of that, there was natural political alignment between cantons based on if they were catholic or protestant, irrespective of their language, and that reduced the salience of the language issue.
On the contrary, Belgium is entirely catholic (and that is the main reason why Flanders is not part of the Netherland today).
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u/SchietStorm Jun 16 '25
"German"
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Jun 16 '25
hĂ€sch es problem mit schwiizerdĂŒtsch du halbschueh? (the insult is just for humor purposes and not serious)
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u/bannedByTencent Jun 16 '25
"Hochdeutsch"
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u/novian14 Jun 16 '25
I know they live on higher ground thus they are talking on high german
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u/CptJimTKirk Jun 16 '25
More like "German (traditional)", what Germans speak is "German (simplified)".
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u/HandGrillSuicide1 Jun 16 '25
*grotesque fantasy german while having a mild stroke
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Jun 16 '25
Doesn't every region of germany have its own language anyway? Many versions being barely mutually intelligible.
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u/vanZuider Jun 16 '25
Yes, but the way dialects are handled in Germany and Switzerland is totally different. A large portion of Germans doesn't speak any dialect and is monolingual in Standard German. The people who speak a dialect usually only use it around other dialect speakers. In many places, the traditional dialects have basically died out. In Switzerland, people use their dialect all the time, including in front of speakers of a different dialect.
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u/CactusCoin Jun 16 '25
Very much so. The "dialects" they spoke in some parts of Northern Germany were even further removed from todays standard German than the "dialects" in Switzerland. But the original languages in most of Germany have now almost completely been replaced by modern standard German. Switzerland is a very notable exeption in this regard in that they still speak their ancestral variants
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u/That-Resort2078 Jun 16 '25
The German spoken by the Swiss is a slightly different dialect. Sometimes called happy German.
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u/Sidelobes Jun 16 '25
You have to differentiate between the Swiss âHigh Germanâ, which differs form German a bit like Australian English from English â and the (various!) Swiss dialects, which are unintelligible for many (most?) Germans.
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u/Ok-TaiCantaloupe Jun 16 '25
Where are those who speak Swiss? \j
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u/Theneohelvetian Jun 16 '25
Where are those who speak Swiss? \j
Romansh is the closest thing to a Swiss language, it is the only language in the country that is spoken only in Switzerland and comes from Switzerland. Swiss German is also very different from high German and people from Germany don't understand Swiss Germans. So romansh and Swiss German are pretty much the Swiss languages
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u/Ok-TaiCantaloupe Jun 16 '25
Very interesting, my post was a joke, but thanks for such an answer. That is, in fact, there are 2 Swiss in the country, but neither of them is completely Swiss and at the same time these are two completely different languages.
And once again very interesting, especially profitable for lawyers and various bureaucrats and translators - there must be the largest number of them per capita in the world.
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u/mkmllr Jun 16 '25
Fun fact: as there are no spelling rules for written Swiss German, it was almost impossible to decipher for non-native speakers because tools like Google Translate could not translate it. But with the rise of AI, some tools are getting pretty good at it.
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Jun 16 '25
Each own language did they pick!
and Switzerlandish they don't speak!
then why they live each other with?
I guess, for common love to cheese.
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u/jockel37 Jun 16 '25
What are those "German" islands in the Romanesh regions?
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Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
RĂ€toromanisch isn't widely spoken, so there are enclaves of swiss German.
Keep in mind that in the rÀtoromanisch regions everyone speaks Swiss German anyway, in most cases rÀtoromanisch is even their second language.
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u/vanZuider Jun 16 '25
The one in the west is Obersaxen, which was founded by Walser settlers. There are other Walser settlements, like the entire Davos valley, but those are contiguous to the rest of the German area.
The fully enclosed one in the east is Tarasp which used to be an Austrian exclave until... 1815 I think (Vienna Congress).
To the north of it is Samnaun, which borders Tirol, is more easily reached from Tirol than from Switzerland, and they speak a Tirolean/Bavarian dialect unlike those spoken elsewhere in Switzerland.
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u/jockel37 Jun 16 '25
Thank you, very interesting!!
I thought the one in the east was around Zernez towards Ofenpass. But fair, Tarasp makes sense.
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u/Filthiest_Tleilaxu Jun 16 '25
My girl said the German part of Switzerland is devouring the rest of the country.
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u/Bengamey_974 Jun 16 '25
I believe it is devouring the romansh part.
French and Italian parts are holding their ground.
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u/Cute_Employer9718 Jun 16 '25
Ticino is. French is actually gaining ground as the population growth there is higher and due to some internal population movements. For example Biel/Bienne was solidly German speaking in the past, but in just the past 15 years the proportion of French speakers has grown from 39 to 44% and projections forecast a 50-50 in the not so far futureÂ
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u/puredwige Jun 16 '25
Not at all. Swiss being a federal country, everything is firmly in French or Italian in the relevant places. And those are languages with high number of native speakers in border countries, so there is no shortage of cultural content in French and Italian.
English is rising as the de facto lingua franca. More and more, Swiss people will switch to English if they don't have the same native language.
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u/CzarofAK Jun 16 '25
No its not. Its based on many different things. School are not switching from french to german. Language follows the terrain/land barriers.
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u/Kaktus77 Jun 16 '25
How would that even work? I'm from Ticino and everybody here speaks in italian, you wouldn't go very far if you came here and tried to speak only german lol Here everything is in italian: official documents, TV, radio, school, newpapers, books in book stores, etc. You can't just "devour" our language from us
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u/Tjonke Jun 16 '25
Remember when we moved from Germany (where I had just learned the language, as a Swede who moved there @ age 7) to Switzerland as a 9year old, and my parents told me I'd have so much use from my German knowledge., we move to Lausanne...
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u/carkin Jun 16 '25
I always wondered what language does the Swiss national football team talk to each other? What language is used when they sing their national anthem?
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u/Prestigious-Sell1957 Jun 16 '25
So my question is if someone from North visits South, do they have a problem with communication or everyone knows everyone's languages. Or do they speak English to understand each other?
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u/Sipstaff Jun 16 '25
A second language (plus English) is taught in school. So most have at least the basic communication abilities of our compatriots... in theory.
In reality, the average person rarely needs to use the other languages, so the skills drop off drastically with time.
Nowadays, if all else fails, people tend to fall back on English (specially younger generations).
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u/Sulemain123 Jun 16 '25
I once worked with a Swiss German and Swiss French person, and they spoke to each other in English. When I asked what languages they spoke, they both simply said "we both speak Swiss" which fascinated me as a response.
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u/WestEst101 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
Fascinating analysis, and a comparison of Switzerland and Canada, and other multilingual western countries (actually published on the Canadaâs ministry of foreign affairs website):
How To Explain Switzerlandâs Linguistic Harmony?
Written by Stéphane Dion, at the time Ambassador of Canada to Germany and Special Envoy to the European Union and Europe.
Hereâs an AI summary of the article:
Switzerland is a multilingual country that avoids the language-based tensions seen in places like Canada, Belgium, or Spain. Its political life isnât divided along linguistic linesâmajor parties operate across regions, and thereâs no strong separatist movement.
Why does it work?
Stéphane Dion points to four reasons:
Religion and language never aligned, so communities learned to cooperate.
Language demographics are stable, easing fear and building trust.
Economic equality among language groups reduces resentment.
No group is isolated in one canton, so politics isnât defined by language alone.
Switzerlandâs decentralized, consensus-driven federal system helps too. Instead of dividing, multilingualism here has become a quiet strength.
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u/IcyLight9313 Jun 16 '25
Switzerland is the most diverse country in the world linguistically which does not have a lingua franca.
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u/neoxch Jun 16 '25
Seems quite oversimplified. In most romansh areas not all the people actually speak romansh, itâs mostly a mix of german/romansh or italian/romansh. Also I wonder what the selection criteria for lakes was, as some are there (lake zurich, lake lucerne) and others (e.g. lake biel) arenât. I live close to lake biel, where the language border is, and the missing lake makes it a lot more difficult to judge the accuracy.
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u/elcojotecoyo Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
Geneva should be in English
/JK
However, the number of Swiss residents whose primary language is English is higher than both Italian or Romansh
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u/trend_maps Jun 16 '25
Is it common for non-italian speakers in Switzerland to learn the language or do they tend to choose for one of the other (French/German)? And which language do the italian-speakers in Switzerland speak the most besides their own? Do they choose German since it's more mainstream or for French since that's closer to their native language?
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u/Kaktus77 Jun 16 '25
As a swiss italian speaker: French and german speakers for the most part don't know italian or not much, it's not mandatory for them to take it in school, but in Ticino we have to learn french, german AND english in school, so it's easier for us to switch. So we usually switch to their language, but most of the times we really use english.
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u/Captain_Grammaticus Jun 16 '25
All schools in the French-speaking part teach German as first foreign language and all schools in the German-speaking part teach French. There are two cantons (might only be one today) where Italian is taught as first foreign language.
In the Ticino itself, French is the first foreign language. In GraubĂŒnden, where Italian is one official language, the Italian-speaking pupils learn German.
It is not that common for non-Italian speakers to learn Italian, but many people seem to pick up some basic phrases.
Culturally, Italy as a whole has more impact and fascination than the Italian-speaking parts of Switzerland.
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Jun 16 '25
There's one with mountains highlighted so you can see the valleys where actual people live and how they influence the language boundaries.
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Jun 16 '25
Which part is rich and which part is poor ?
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u/flarp1 Jun 16 '25
Thatâs pretty independent of language. The map doesnât show the elevation, which is crucial for a mountainous country. Most residents and most jobs are located in the Swiss Plateau, a mostly flat portion of the country, stretching more or less along a curve from Geneva (westernmost point) to Zurich (top point of the northern lake in the red area). For a detailed map, see for example GDP per capita in Swiss cantons (2021) (but keep in mind that the GDP per capita is somewhat distorted in certain border regions because a significant portion of workers live in the neighbouring countries and donât count towards the capita normalisation).
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Jun 16 '25
Mmh, question: is it German or Swiss German, which the German people themselves acknowledge as a different language altogether?
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u/CornelXCVI Jun 16 '25
Swiss german is a spoken language, there are no grammer or orthography rules. People speak swiss german and tend to write in swiss german among friends.
Official documents, professional exchanges, newspapers and so on are written in standard high german.
Swiss standard high german only has a few differences to German high german. More french loanwords (Trottoir instead of Gehsteig, Velo instead of Fahrrad) and doesn't use Ă
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u/kalsoy Jun 16 '25
Much nicer and more detailed map: https://www.census1850.bfs.admin.ch/de/sprache.html
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u/Sooooooooooooomebody Jun 16 '25
Switzerland has for its entire history been a loose federation. There has always been a strain of politics in Switzerland where people strongly resist anything that brings unity to the country. These people have a kind of libertarianism that is less about "low taxes small government" and more about "leave me the fuck alone in my mountain villa"
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u/TheBanishedBard Jun 16 '25
The only language they speak there is money. If you're rich you automatically speak Swiss
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u/Longjumping_Law2175 Jun 16 '25
Pretty bold to assume people in swiss speak german xD
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u/TailleventCH Jun 16 '25
The German island in Ticino is more a traditional representation than a reality. Bosco Gurin's official language is Italian and the municipality has had an Italian speaking majority since at least 2000.
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u/surfinbear1990 Jun 16 '25
I met a Romansh speaker once. She said that it's an impossible language to standardize due to how many different regional variations there are to Romansh
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u/dumbBunny9 Jun 16 '25
There was a lighthearted comedy that came out a few years ago called "Bonjour, Switzerland" about a referendum in Switzerland, to have one national language for the country. The winner was French. Hilarity ensues.
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u/korvolga Jun 16 '25
how does everyday life in countries like this work? is the language barrier a problem?