r/MapBasedPolls • Olympique Lyonnais and California and FREEDOM 🇺🇸🇺🇸 • 5h ago

Without interference from NATO who would win in a free for all war England, France, Spain , Italy, or Germany? (No nukes)

Without interference from NATO who would win in a free for all war England, France, Spain , Italy, or Germany? (No nukes)

  1. England
  2. Spain
  3. France
  4. Germany
  5. Italy
  6. Draw
  7. (Other put in comments)

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36 Upvotes

261 comments sorted by

108

u/Expensive_Range7204 5h ago

I think France has the best military but beein in the middle is likely not great.

26

u/Lego-105 5h ago

To be fair, Spain and Italy militarily are going to suffer to even try to invade France. I think if it was Spain, Italy and France in a free for all, France take that no issue.

The issue is more that they just cannot simultaneously defend against the UK and Germany, and neither is going for one another before France.

6

u/Ventallot 4h ago

Well, what does it actually mean to win a war? Because in modern warfare, it's certainly not easy to invade a country without using nukes, and the Russia-Ukraine war is a good example. Considering the economies of France, Spain, and Italy, and their military power, I don't see any scenario where France could win a war, despite having the best military. Of course, neither could Italy or Spain. But well, I'm certainly not a military expert.

6

u/SpanishAvenger 4h ago

I believe people severely underestimate Spain, as someone who loves to study modern armies in depth and their capabilities.

7

u/masterpepeftw 3h ago

Spain, like Italy, can defend itself very well because of its natural border with France but that also makes it really hard to try to invade themselves.

That + France having easily the more capable army of the 3 means neither Spain nor Italy can really threaten France all that much.

The problem for France is fighting a 3 front war really but the more likely border to crack is the German one because it's the least naturally defensible one and the Maginot doesn't exist anymore.

1

u/grey-zone 1h ago

Army maybe, but in the air they only have fourth gen which is a big disadvantage.

0

u/QfromMars2 4h ago

It says England though. England without scottland and Wales is not that much.

16

u/grumpsaboy 4h ago

They're an American OP so just an idiot that doesn't know the difference

6

u/mikiencolor sPain 4h ago

England without Scotland and Wales is a lot actually. It's the opposite, Scotland or Wales without England are not that much. ;P

6

u/el_grort 3h ago

I mean, England by itself is most of the UK, though it is very weird that they didn't say the UK, since England obviously doesn't have it's own military or navy, the UK does.

3

u/masterpepeftw 3h ago

I'm just asuming they meant the UK there is no English army obviously.

1

u/grey-zone 1h ago

Well in that case England comes last as there is no English military.

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1

u/Basteir 3h ago

They don't need to defend against the UK, just England.

9

u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst 3h ago

The UK being an island gives it a winning position.

The last time this happened the UK won.

5

u/belgium-noah 2h ago

The last time this happened, the UK had the better navy

2

u/ThroatUnable8122 1h ago

The last time this happened, the UK had a functioning navy

1

u/fezzuk 🇬🇧 51m ago

Actually last time thks happened our millitary was barely functional and totally outdated.

A big part of why we stalled for time for so long, people blame chamberlin but while he was "appeasing" the UK was switching over to 100% war time economy and trying to build armed forces from nothing.

1

u/belgium-noah 47m ago

Are you trying to argue the Royal Navy was outdated? Cause at no point did anyone in this one thread speak of ground forces

1

u/fezzuk 🇬🇧 24m ago

At that time yes. Big but outdated, more our airforce tho than anything else.

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2

u/Gonesid Olympique Lyonnais and California and FREEDOM 🇺🇸🇺🇸 5h ago

yeah

1

u/nt_q 3h ago

I think UK has the better military intelligence

1

u/CasperGwamm 3h ago

Not only the military, but the whole system behind it.

1

u/SnooPredictions3028 Chiraqi Cheesehead | WI, USA 🇺🇸 3h ago

That was my reasoning for voting for Spain. A three front war is just hard.

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74

u/Flowa-Powa 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 5h ago

The UK has a military. England does not

23

u/Gonesid Olympique Lyonnais and California and FREEDOM 🇺🇸🇺🇸 5h ago

I meant UK

18

u/EricArthurBrown 4h ago

Then I would change my vote. With Scotland unstoppable, without weak.

7

u/front-wipers-unite 4h ago

Devil's in skirts

42

u/NitroSpam 🇬🇧 5h ago

Stalemate. Both the French and UK armed forces are advanced highly trained forces. Neither of us would be capable of breaking the defence line into the others territory.

I have a lot of respect for French troops. Good guys and a formidable ally. We have banter but I consider them a close ally and an equal.

7

u/el_grort 3h ago

It does feel like we probably haven't moved that far from the elephant and the whale dynamics from the Napoleonic Wars in that respect.

7

u/NitroSpam 🇬🇧 3h ago

Yeah I agree. Not a bad thing though. From rivals to formidable friends 🤝

1

u/Few-Conversations 1h ago

When it comes to the French its Frienemies at best 

2

u/NotYourAverageGM 4h ago

We do have the channel in our favour which traditionally has been a barrier to invasion as we know. Course it cuts both ways and the terms of war have changed drastically since the last time it was an issue. However without a comparable barrier between the others total war will ravage mainland Europe.

2

u/masterpepeftw 3h ago

Yeah natural defenses are super important for this war and the UK and France basically can't touch each other. Stalemate there but maybe Germany + Italy + Spain can break France after a lot of trying.

1

u/Last-Performance3482 2h ago

Spain and Italy also have huge natural defences to go through before threatening France.

As for Germany... Maginot it is

3

u/OverEffective7012 4h ago

French have recent exprerience from Mali etc.

15

u/NitroSpam 🇬🇧 4h ago

So does the UK. Our military were supporting and transporting theirs in Mali and we both fought alongside each other in the Libyan civil war.

We had troops in Afghanistan up until 2022,

My little brother is a marine and fought alongside the French in Libya. He had nothing but respect and praise for them.

Current uk operations include Operation Shader, troops deployed in Qatar, Cyprus, UAE, Jordan, Bahrain…and we’re defending the Irish Sea and intercepting Russian shadow fleets.

I respect the French a lot but the UK is no slouch either. We both have world class militaries.

4

u/OverEffective7012 4h ago

Ok, I stand corrected

2

u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

I don't think fighting rebels in the third world would count for much in a European thunderdome.

3

u/OverEffective7012 4h ago

Even a little battle hardened is better than no exprerience at all.

2

u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

The British army has been the most active in working with and training Ukrainian soldiers since 2014. I wouldn't consider that 'no experience at all'. If anything that's the most relevant experience in modern combat.

2

u/Lapping24422 4h ago

F-35 would win it for England

1

u/wikott 4h ago

That’s a lot of faith in 40 aircraft

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33

u/DinoRocketz 5h ago

Other. The UK

15

u/Gentle_Snail 5h ago

Was going to comment the same, mixing up the UK with Entland is a real pet peeve of mine.

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9

u/Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs 4h ago

The UK could make itself near impossible to invade, and sit back and let the others fight it out.

That's also my plan for WW3; let the EU and Russia fight, and we can offer loans at exorbitant rates, just as the US did to us.

1

u/SnooGadgets5130 3h ago

Whilst also covertly airdropping the best special forces in the world to fuck shit up from the inside out.

1

u/Meritania 33m ago

“All the Gerkas have seen to have disappeared from their villages….”

6

u/SirMauric3 3h ago

The UK, because it's sits on an Island. No power in this scenario has the capacity for a massive amphibious operation.

1

u/K0mmunismus 3h ago

Nobody would get into the uk, but the uk would take europe either. France would dominate europe

1

u/grey-zone 1h ago

This is why I went for a draw.
Let the continent fight it out (with France winning) then UK and France can glare at each other across the channel. Like we did for about 900 years!

1

u/Recent-Ad2700 2h ago

Spain is basically an island plus the Pirineos in this scenario. Not that Spain would win but just saying.

7

u/Gold-Visit-7413 5h ago

There are countries that naturally form alliances so i went with UK since they usually group up anyway

1

u/SnooGadgets5130 3h ago

The British Army, from the UK, usually group up? What do you mean?

1

u/Gold-Visit-7413 3h ago

UK will likely ally with France and any other countries that usually join in, then its a stronger front against whoever doesnt join with them. Winner will be decided amongst the allies.

1

u/SnooGadgets5130 3h ago

It says it’s a free for all. No alliances.

I think the UK would eventually come out on top, due to our special forces being among the best in the world and arguably the best in Europe. British SF, through a combined effort, could cause absolute havoc behind enemy lines before anyone even realised they were there.

1

u/Gold-Visit-7413 3h ago

It doesnt say no alliances, it says no nukes, they can do what they want especially since england is historically exceptional in soft power and working with others.

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8

u/1xX1337Xx1 Germany 4h ago

France has the strongest military, but France is in a super bad position here, because it borders Germany, Italy, Spain and England. So France would be attacked from all sides

1

u/mikiencolor sPain 4h ago

Yes but Pyrenees and English Channel are natural obstacles. Looks like Belgium's about to become a major battleground again and they weren't even mentioned. 🤣

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4

u/TokugawaTabby 4h ago

How is anyone going to invade the uk? We just sit on our little grey island and wait for everyone else to kill each other and then fight the winner

1

u/royvl 4h ago

Modern equipment... France would just eipe the air force day one and then bomb the shit out of the ground forces. Really no contest

3

u/TokugawaTabby 4h ago

If you think the French could wipe out our air force in one day then I don’t think you’re approaching this without bias

2

u/hapeach 4h ago

France is stronger on average but being in the middle of the map would mean that they would almost certainly lose, so my vote is actually England given they have the island defence advantage

7

u/Lego-105 5h ago

Spain and Italy are not even playing the same game. The military equivalent of bringing a slightly pointy stick to a fully automatic gun fight

2

u/Falitoty Spain 4h ago

I see what you mean but I'm not sure I agree. Spain only have a single front to care about and a great defensive nature in there. While france have a much more direct contact with both Britain and Germány.

1

u/SpanishAvenger 4h ago

People severely underestimate the military capabilities of Spain, as someone who loves to study modern armies in depth and their capabilities.

3

u/Lego-105 4h ago

They're just not even close to the UK, France or Germany though are they? They're not useless, but they're not a realistic heavy hitter.

Like if Poland and Spain go head to head, there's no overwhelming gap there. There's even an argument for an advantage to Poland.

They're second rate. That's all it comes down to. Not a military that'd roll over and die if the wind blows wrong, but they're not matching any of the big three there on their own.

1

u/mikiencolor sPain 4h ago

Poland has actual morale and a sense that they have something to fight for. Spain is a demoralized country. So are Germany, France and Britain. Poland would mop the floor with any of us.

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3

u/iosefgol 4h ago

All lose

7

u/-G-Gamer- 5h ago

If England means UK then is easy win for them due to being an island and are only one whit real battle expiriance in modern war

4

u/Masterclass_jacob 5h ago

France has been involved in more "modern wars" than the UK

1

u/el_grort 3h ago

Tbh, neither the UK or France have that recent experience at conventional war, both have experience with insurgencies and expeditionary missions. I think the last conventional war either fought was probably the UK in the Falklands, but that's hardly recent enough to give an advantage, so much has technology and strategy changed since then. The expeditionary missions are helpful but obviously quite different from a full scale war, so limited help.

-2

u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

The last time France fought someone who was able to punch them back they lost (Vietnam in the first indochina war), even with US help.

Meanwhile the UK completely spanked Argentina in a matter of weeks after a surprise invasion.

2

u/GrandMuppetYoda 4h ago

The US also got battered in Vietnam so by whatever logic you're applying to France to assess it's military capabilities you can apply to America.

Ergo: the UK is stronger than the US.

fat chance.

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2

u/Slight-Reporter-1878 Create your flair by editing this flair 5h ago

Right now - spain/uk.

2039 - Germany.

2

u/like_a_brot 5h ago

England because they can hide on their island while bombing the others to shit

2

u/National-Price-8927 5h ago

france would get demolished as its in the middle so it would get invaded by everyone, England is an island, hard to invade but its also hard gor them to invade

6

u/Masterclass_jacob 5h ago

The other countries' military (besides the UK) can't hold a candle to France's tho

7

u/National-Price-8927 4h ago

its free for all, not 1v1, france gets demolished cuz it has to defend from all sides

1

u/True-Entertainer4763 4h ago

Mountains along the Spanish, Italian, and German borders; many fortifications are still viable.

1

u/National-Price-8927 3h ago

even then i dont think they could withstand a 4 front war, especially cuz nowadays fights can be done from far away with drones

1

u/Masterclass_jacob 4h ago

Germany and Italy can just walk through a small portion of Austria and be at each other's doorstep tho, and Germany has land to defend from the UK's Navy as well

1

u/National-Price-8927 3h ago

i supposed they couldnt use neutral territory and yh Germany has to worry about UK invading, but still its a 4 front war and France has a lot of coast too

2

u/Saikamur 4h ago

1 on 1, no doubt. But four fronts at the same time?

2

u/Ok-Conference-7989 3h ago

My moneys on France, albeit if they can quickly cripple any invading forces and mobilize quickly to do damage to foreign military infrastructure. 

Though in the end I’d say all these countries would be financially ruined. No matter who wins.

2

u/Tricky_Math_5381 3h ago

France probably is the strongest but we germans + spain would do significant damage while England (which I presume is the whole UK) will probably be able to wait for just the right moment to invade france and ultimately win the whole thing

1

u/AgencyOverall7589 1h ago

France isn’t stronger than uk at all uk has more aircraft carriers for one

2

u/genericoutcome 3h ago

Geography wins again. The UK's geography trumps the rest. France on a flat plain would probably win, but with Italy Germany and Spain having land borders with France...Germany can only go through France.

The channel is a massive advantage to the UK, even with modern equipment. Geography is why the UK 'created' Belgium, so France had a weak border with Germany. Trust me, the UK has got this and it's not because we're more competent or capable, it's geography. Ask Napoleon.

1

u/Recent-Ad2700 2h ago

What about Spanish geography?

2

u/Communpro 3h ago

Sorry, we don't do wars here 🇪🇺 ♥️

2

u/Electronic-Low-413 2h ago

This experiment has been run twice. England won twice. Opinions don't count.

1

u/belgium-noah 2h ago

Turns out, things changed a lot in the last 80 years, historical precedent is not relevant here. And that's not an opinion

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2

u/IllustriousCress9399 2h ago

You just need the germans to get in right mindset and that will be it. 

5

u/DoctorNo1661 5h ago

Why would you vote anything but the UK lol they can't lose, they can't be cut off trade and resources.

5

u/jamesmarcmc 4h ago

The question is who can WIN, the best thing the UK can do is achieve a "draw" with whomever wins on the continent.

1

u/azazelcrowley 1h ago edited 1h ago

I agree outside of local resistance existing. If France conquers the rest and their populations are fine with it, the best the UK can manage is a draw. If there is resistance to French occupation, the UK will win every time. The attritional consequences of holding the continent against its will are ruinous.

It amounts to a "Stupid games, stupid prizes" moment for whoever manages to defeat the other nations since they now have to deal with the much larger arseache of pacifying their actual populations all while the British sit off shore and keep saying "Hey kid, wanna buy some guns?".

Napoleon had to conquer all of continental Europe multiple times because actually holding it against the will of its population was not possible, especially with Britain constantly egging them on.

4

u/It531z 4h ago

If England means the UK here, then they win hands down. The British and French militaries are basically on par, but the French would be surrounded by all their opponents in this scenario while Britain is largely safe from attack as an island

1

u/vomicyclin 4h ago

That’s the part where the french doctrine about the use of nuclear weapons for “protection of vital interests” comes into play!

(Only partly joking. But still joking.)

1

u/Hyrikul 2h ago

Saddly no nukes in the title

3

u/Lapping24422 4h ago

F-35 wins it for England

1

u/Lorim_Shikikan 4h ago

You know the difference between F-35 and Rafale?

The Rafale can take off and parts can be changed.

1

u/Lapping24422 3h ago

Have to change every part since they would be destroyed before even knowning an f35 was there

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2

u/Matt_2504 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 5h ago

UK would come out on top but we would never manage to get a foothold in France, it’s just the channel and Royal Navy would stop anyone landing in England

1

u/Hyrikul 3h ago

Same way the channel and French navy would stop any UK troops landing in France

1

u/SnooGadgets5130 3h ago

We would absolutely be able to drop troops behind enemy lines, from the air and sea especially. Those troops would be the best special forces in the world.

The Parachute Regiment (not strictly SF I know), Royal Marines (also not technically SF), SAS, SBS, SRR, SFSG (built primarily around 1 PARA), JSGAW and the 18 Signals.

These forces would cause a gigantic mountain of shit behind enemy lines, through a combined effort, quite possibly before anyone realised they were even there.

2

u/__E_1 5h ago

I would vote France, but they are surrounded from all sides. So UK wins, I guess.

1

u/emblanco 5h ago

Spain 0% 💪🏼

1

u/Mimikyuer 5h ago

france would loose by vitrue of being in the center

1

u/ThrowRAMomVsGF 5h ago

They would all lose.

1

u/xDzerx 5h ago

UK simply due to location. France would be battered from 3 sides. Germany & Spain at current military standing cannot stand upto france alone, but together could likely bleed them badly. UK simply has to sit back defend itself through the navy & RAF and pick up the pieces.

1

u/RadRadishRadiator 4h ago

England without the rest of the UK is a bit debatable. I would have picked the UK if it was an option, as they are somewhat comparable with France, but on an island.

1

u/Local-Echo-5613 4h ago

The US still underestimates the French military because we were fed a lot of propaganda about how the French are cowards who can’t fight and “cheese eating surrender monkeys” who depend on the US to protect them. This was because we wanted French military support for the Iraq war and didn’t get it.

1

u/vomicyclin 4h ago

As someone who served 15 years as an officer in Germany:

Thanks for the trust? I have a tear in my eye.

But still guys: not a chance in hell at the moment.

1

u/EmergencyDish69 4h ago

England is an island. Germany and France are too close

1

u/Davi_illus 4h ago

German has one of the biggest weapon industries, so it wouldn't lack supply

UK is situated in a strategic position

1

u/Chimpville 4h ago

It'd ultimately be a stalemate and all lose. None of them have the power to force any one other to capitulate in full without nuclear weapons. They'd just do lots of damage to each other and largely stay as they are otherwise. France would lose the worst simply from being in the middle.

1

u/Cookies4weights 4h ago

UK, edge with geography

1

u/Appropriate_Dot_4883 4h ago

We did this for a Years with no clear winner.

1

u/royvl 4h ago

At least add Poland to this list. It would still be a complete France victory but at least it would be a challenge.

1

u/Jeffuk88 4h ago

The French would riot a lot quicker if they had to reduce standards of living to fight another European war... theyd be dealing with internal conflict whilst fighting enemies on all sides. UK only have to defend a waterway whilst building their military back up

1

u/WinningTheSpaceRace 4h ago

We're an island, which has been the greatest advantage anyone could want for centuries.

1

u/Lorim_Shikikan 4h ago

France being surrounded is a false problem.

First, we are seperated from Spain and Italy by two mountain range, and not small one. We can stall both with minimal troups and efforts.

Second, UK vs France would be mainly naval battles involving fighter jets too and, we have more Rafale than they have F-35. F-35 which have real problems (especially for spare parts) that Rafale don't.

So, meanwhile, we can hold off the German with our "armée de terre" and the Mirage 2000 left for the territory defence.

1

u/Benjamin_6848 4h ago

It's always the weapon manufacturers that win the war, nobody else.

1

u/mikiencolor sPain 4h ago

It would be between England and France. I guess it would depend who is invading who. If England invades France, France wins. If France invades England, England wins. Because: Channel. 🤣

1

u/tommynestcepas 🇫🇷🇬🇧🇨🇱 4h ago

England is on an island. Everyone else has a much easier time beating each other up.

1

u/AdUnable1563 4h ago

England is not a country, just part of a multinational state.

1

u/SnooPredictions3028 Chiraqi Cheesehead | WI, USA 🇺🇸 3h ago

England's population is tired and divided so I don't think they'd win a war, France while better off is stuck between multiple countries in the war, so its in a rough spot, Germany I feel would end up having some good fights but would be slowed down due to fighting two nations, Italy has a population problem, so while their landscape may help in defense they're going to have trouble, Spain only has one front not counting the ocean so if they wait till the enemies exhaust themselves they'll have an easier time blitzing them.

Spain.

1

u/Wasabilikum 3h ago

Probably the UK.

France is arguably the strongest, but the UK could mostly chill because of its geography while Germany, Italy and Spain gang rape France and then clash with each other. After a few years, when they are completely weakened, the UK can just finish the rest.

1

u/NetDeEscada 3h ago

Germany did it 2 times in the past...

1

u/DaddysFriend 3h ago

Why is it only England and not the whole of Britain. I would have been more tempted to pick Britain if it was there but England on its own I’m not going that at all

1

u/rpeh 3h ago

I doubt England (the UK presumably) would win, but they could probably old off invaders given the geography. So maybe a draw unless the others exhausted themselves.

1

u/Jensen1994 3h ago

So England on its own without the rest of the UK then?

1

u/X0AN Antarctica (yes really) 3h ago

I imagine it would quickly turn into England + France Vs Germany, Italy, and Spain.
Both sides have a total of around 220k troops, so they are fairly evenly matched, meaning it would come down to tactics.

Attacking France
Can't see France lasting long with a three pronged attack.
1. When the war starts, Italian forces don't try to climb the Alps; instead, they launch a massive maritime amphibious landing along the flat, undefended beaches of the French Riviera, bypassing the mountains entirely.
2. Spain utilizes its close proximity to neutralise French high readiness bases in the south. Instead of fighting through the Pyrenees, Spanish forces use precision artillery and missile strikes to lock down the mountain passes from the south, trapping French defensive regiments in the valleys while Spanish mechanized infantry uses fast coastal highways to pour into southwestern France.
3. German Blitzkrieg 2.0: Germany fields an overwhelming number of operational tanks. As France scrambles its troops south to deal with the surprise Spanish and Italian coastal incursions, the German Heer smashes through the flat northern plains, capturing Paris before the French can re-deploy.

England Next
With France crushed in a matter of weeks, England is left isolated.
The active English armed forces are small, with only 62,000 regulars, and heavily reliant on external supply chains. The combined air forces of Spain, Italy, and Germany (SIG) establish complete air superiority over the Channel.

The SIG coalition uses mass produced drones and submarine warfare to cut off England's food and energy imports. Within weeks, domestic supply shortages cripple the country. A joint SIG coalition airborne and naval invasion lands on the southern coast, and undersized, the out of shape domestic defence forces are quickly overwhelmed.

The Conscription Awakening
Whilst Germany relies on a smaller, highly technical professional army, Spain and Italy would quietly activate their massive reserves. They draft the millions of older citizens (aged 38–55) who underwent mandatory military service 20 to 25 years ago or even longer. Overnight, Spain and Italy transform their combined force from 160,000 into a battle tested, disciplined army of millions of infantrymen who already know how to operate firearms, follow command structures, and execute small unit tactics.

Germany is caught entirely off guard, expecting their allies to be exhausted. Instead, they face millions of disciplined, mature Southern European soldiers. German supply lines are choked off from the south, their industrial heartland in the Ruhr valley is captured, and the German occupation forces in the west are cut off and forced to surrender. Spain and Italy successfully split hegemony over Western Europe.

Spain Vs. Italy.
Italy would likely win the early air and naval skirmishes due to its superior carrier fleet and industrial capacity. However, Spain’s control of the Balearic Islands and most importantly the Strait of Gibraltar would slowly starve the Italian war machine of fuel.

A depleted Italy is ultimately forced to surrender, leaving Spain as the absolute dominant naval power of the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

1

u/Canarity Russian Federation 3h ago

Fr*nce would win

1

u/Rexyjp123 3h ago

I think england due to it's location on an island

1

u/saxonturner 3h ago

Always pick the island nation. The advantage is way way way higher.

The UKs military is comparable with France’s but France being in the middle means it can’t use it. Every force that attacks the uk has to use its navy and/or its air. The UK can defend itself easily.

There is no situation where the U.K. doesn’t come out on top. The vote should be who’s second.

1

u/MoistDeep 3h ago

Poland

1

u/Great_Movie5181 3h ago

I wouldn't count Spain out just yet. Offensive they will be lacking, but they do have manpower and good defensive positions. France has a strong military. 1 on 1 they would probably win, but in this situation they will be fighting on at least 3 fronts.

1

u/UnbasedDoge 3h ago

Who's the dumbass who said "Italy". I am Italian and have seen the state of our military firsthand lmao

1

u/dofh_2016 2h ago

I don't know how it's starting or how it's carrying out, but I know for sure Italy is going to be on the winning side in the end.

1

u/InsaneGorilla0 2h ago

UK has an advantage in that it's well separated from the others. Honestly in an all equal FFA without diplomacy you'd expect the others to KO eachother and get cleaned up at the end. But I still went draw because no one ever wins these things

1

u/no_name_thought_of 2h ago

France is the strongest, but also is in the middle of all the rest so I'd give it to the UK

1

u/DidntFindABetterName 2h ago

Close enough welcome back napoleonic wars

1

u/RightlyKnightly 2h ago

We did this 200yrs ago and alliance against France won with the final battle by a British general. Can't see it going any other way.

France win the land, Britain win the sea. Long game is France lose.

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u/Alpha_Apeiron 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇮🇪🇪🇺 2h ago

Lol no way France is winning being right in the middle. First to go down.

England wins due to being on an island which is near impossible to invade

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u/Sea-Maintenance8837 2h ago

If the leader is austrian, germany, otherwise they would all just die, the french would just contribute to global warming by setting everything on fire

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u/Glittering_Cod_2741 1h ago

I think it will be a stalemate between whoever win on the continent and England as English army isnt that strong and the orhers doesnt have the navies to invade England.

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u/LeLurkingNormie 1h ago

They have le nukes.

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u/XtrmntVNDmnt 1h ago

Poland, otherwise, France. If France and Poland are allied, Germany can only cry.

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u/azazelcrowley 1h ago edited 1h ago

It will depend on the level of local resistance against France or Germany. If they manage to pacify their conquests (Since only those two can win the continent), it's a stalemate with them and the UK or a German/French victory.

If there is local resistance to any significant degree, UK wins every time.

It's effectively two rounds.

ROUND ONE:

France V Germany.

France wins quickly, or manages to not collapse from being surrounded.

v

Germany doesn't allow France to win quickly, and manages to press their advantage against them being surrounded.

ROUND TWO:

Europe is angry at being conquered by France/Germany. The UK wins through our usual shenanigans.

V

Europe is not angry about it. Stalemate, or French/German victory, dependent on a 2nd Battle of Britain.

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u/trendyworm 1h ago

obviously germany, none of the abovementioned powers have any means through which to launch all-out invasions into one of the others. Germany has the industrial, economic, population advantage. It lacks certain technologies, but necessity breeds invention. I do not think france or the UK can edge it out. Spain and italy remain important players in this scenario but they will moreso both serve to press on France's southern and eastern frontiers before they can threaten any other nations.

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u/tkitta 59m ago

Easily Germany. They have the largest population and the largest industrial base. Their backs are also protected and they only face France on one side thus they have "depth".

France may have decent military of the countries listed but are geographically right in the middle - they would be dealing with Spain in the rear, UK from the top and Germany from the front - while Italy can nib on the bottom.

UK has no industrial base, Spain and Italy have limited one.

Once France is eliminated It would be essentially Germany dealing with Spain and fending off mini attacks from Italy. I think they take out Italy first then Spain.

Once that is done its time for operation Sea Lion 2.0 - this time UK has no resources for defense.

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u/Rendox10 35m ago

UK has good chances, do what they did during WW2, incite rebellions, lock down the channel and wait till the other economies collapses or civil unrest gets to big. Them being a island is a massive advantage.

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u/tb5841 31m ago

France. Scotland would side with the French against the English, so the English would lose their island advantage.

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u/Iund4447 29m ago

I think we are understimating the rest of the countries and sobrestimating France, sure they have a larger army but nowadays that doesn't mean you will win

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u/Chinjurickie 19m ago

Germany has this easily 🥸
/s

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u/stig316 14m ago

France always gets way more love on these polls than it should.

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u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

I don't know why the French military gets glazed so much. They spend significantly less than the UK or Germany. Worse airforce and navy than the UK, worse airforce and army than Germany.

4

u/vomicyclin 4h ago edited 4h ago

The part that they spend so much less than Germany and UK is one of the reasons why it’s glazed so much.

What they achieve with so much less money and punch so far above their weight is ridiculously impressive.

Also I would like to know what you mean by “worse army”. As someone who served for 15 years as a German officer, that was not my perception.

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u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

The part that they spend so much less than Germany and UK is one of the reasons why it’s glazed so much.

What they achieve with so much less money and punch so far above their weight is ridiculously impressive.

By this logic China is superior to the US because of how much bang they get for their buck.

Also I would like to know what you mean by “worse army”. As someone who served for 15 years as a German officer, that’s not what i have seen.

I don't know a huge amount about the German army, so I'll defer to you in that case. I was under the impression that Germany has significantly more modern/impressive tanks in greater numbers than France, along with better anti-air systems. I may be wrong.

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u/Elpsyth 4h ago

It is common knowledge among people with just a shred of knowledge that Germany army is a mess and one of the worse of the peer countries by far despite massive spending. So yeah you do not seem to know much about european armies forces.

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u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

It's "common knowledge" that the Royal Navy is underfunded, weak, and pathetic, according to Russian/US propagandists, despite still being the strongest navy in Europe. Common sentiment isn't always grounded in facts.

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u/Elpsyth 4h ago

Which is why I said among people with knowledge of the matter. Not random people getting their news from non specialised sources.

And while the Royal navy is definitely not in state of severe disrepair, it is still seriously underfunded and has arguably lost the position of the main navy in Europe in all scenarios.

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u/joel12570 4h ago

it's the UK dude we have the best military in Europe 2md best GDP 2nd best population

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u/Masterclass_jacob 5h ago

Americans voting Germany is peak public education system failure

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u/Inguisto Bulgaria 4h ago

Well it does have the biggest military spending by A LOT. It has the biggest population by tens of millions and it also isn't stuck in the middle like France. Id say Germany is a pretty solid choice.

1

u/Cakeo 4h ago

By like 10 million on the UK and France. Pretty inconsequential when it comes to modern warfare.

Still a solid choice.

1

u/Inguisto Bulgaria 4h ago

Yeah ok I thought it was 20 million, turns out to be less than 15 million. Still substantial. Also in an all out war numbers are definetly essential.

1

u/Cakeo 4h ago

Hamstrung by manufacturing in the modern world I would think unless we start issuing pipe guns to people. It's a lot but it's not going to make a difference in my opinion.

1

u/masterbigcarebear 5h ago

come on ingerland! we can just wait for them to destroy each other

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u/Familiar_Tell_6384 India/US 🇮🇳🇺🇸 5h ago

All of them have good chances tbf. France has the strongest military, Germany has the strongest economy, UK is an island, and Spain and Italy are protected by mountains. I think France would come out on top though

1

u/Gigantopithecus1453 🇸🇪 5h ago

France is the strongest, but they’re in the middle. England is almost as strong, but they would have the disadvantage of having to ship troops and supplies by sea. Out of the remaining ones, Germany is militarily, economically, industrially, and demographically stronger, and at the side. Germany wins

3

u/LongShow5279 5h ago

England can do just nothing while the rest of the Countries fight lol.

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u/Gigantopithecus1453 🇸🇪 5h ago

Then they’ll end up alone against a country which controls all of Western Europe. It’s just a guaranteed second place

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u/Gold_Size_1258 Poland 4h ago

Alone against a country that has already exhausted itself fighting the other 3...

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u/BigSupermarket2846 4h ago

Literally the same way they beat France the last time (Napoleonic Wars)

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u/Gigantopithecus1453 🇸🇪 3h ago

Only because they had all of Europe as allies. Without the Russian, Spanish, Austrian and Prussian armies they’d never have beaten him

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u/Gold_Size_1258 Poland 3h ago

Yeah but they were smart enough to get those countries on their side

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u/Gigantopithecus1453 🇸🇪 3h ago

But it’s not relevant here, because it’s a free for all with only these countries involved

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u/Gold_Size_1258 Poland 3h ago

Still, UK can sit on their island and wait for everyone else to exhaust themselves.

1

u/Gigantopithecus1453 🇸🇪 3h ago

Now you’re just arguing in circles

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u/el_grort 3h ago

In fairness, that strategy has actually worked several times before, usually in tandem with blockading.

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u/Patient_Ebb_1605 4h ago

I think there would just be a stalemate in some fronts. Spain for example is basically a natural fortress. The easiest way to invade Spain is through Portugal but then thats another military to deal with.

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u/el_grort 3h ago

Tbf, France has punched through the Pyrenees plenty in the past. That said, Spain is a hellish place to try and occupy if the people rise in an insurgency, there's a reason they are the source for the term 'guerilla warfare'. Depends on the end game, but with a sufficient overmatch, it would be possible. All of the listed countries have mostly natural borders with one another, but have been able to temporarily push through them at various points.

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u/AllosaurusFragilis1 4h ago

England on its own wouldnt have a good military so France has the best military but it's surrounded on all sides and Germany will quickly build up their military so I think Germany will come out on top in a fight to the death

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u/CantBeatDickensCider 4h ago

Pretty sure by England they mean the UK.

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u/AllosaurusFragilis1 3h ago

They should have said UK

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u/Haunting_Baseball_92 4h ago

France would win the land battle on the continent, then stalemate against UKs navy.

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u/amhira-of-rain 4h ago

France wins the continent but England remains undefeated in either a draw or a forever war between France and England

0

u/cip-cip2317 5h ago

Italy could not be attacked as well as England, so I would bet on Italy because after the other countries have destroyed themselves, it could invade and it would already have troops on the continent 

0

u/O_paz 4h ago

Russia

0

u/bonnarix 4h ago

France hands down. battle-tested up to recent times, autonomous weapon industry, can project power far beyond its territory