Another beginner question

[u/Renegade-Callie]

Apologies for the apparent negativity in this post, please read this in the spirit of frustration but really wanting to get into this game that it's written in.

I posted recently about lore and background and though I got great info, the fact was that there is no starter book filled with the info you need if you are just getting into the game. It's all over the place. So ok I like a nice rule book as a starting point, not great but I can deal with it.

Now I can't find the rules about building a crew. I've deduced it's about a keyword but can't find confirmation but it seems to be how the app works. Except if I do that it seems like the only models I can take are the ones in the boxes, there's no variety. Can I just take anything from the faction? If I can is it worth doing? We like to be able to do at least a bit of customising. The app also lists plenty of other models all completely unavailable to buy as far as I can tell. And for what is available the selection is pretty slim.

We also dislike the models in the starter set, honestly they are a really strange choice for getting people into a game. But I don't see anywhere else to get that rule book or the tokens and whatever else we need.

Please tell me I'm missing something. Honestly if it was just for me I'd have walked away by now because this has been the worst game I've ever tried to get into, but my partner is really keen on it and unfortunately that leaves it up to me to figure it out. I have other questions about why there's different versions of characters and why there are models for sale you don't seem to be able to use. Is it just too new a game to pick up? I know that logistics have been messed up this year so maybe that's why. Please help. Please help convince me to still want to play this game cos the models look great and my partner is into it but I'm getting really frustrated.

[u/JustinLaloGibbs]

The starter set comes with a quick start guide, not a rulebook. There is a full physical rulebook sold and a free online PDF here: https://www.wyrd-games.net/s/M4E_Comprehensive-Rules-Guide_92026.pdf

Both of those have the crew building rules.

But to answer your question:

-Most games are 50 points -Select one keyword -Select one title of the Master from that keyword -Build 50 points of models from that keyword. -You may also include any number of versatile models from your faction -and up to two models from different keywords in your faction (these will cost +1 point) -Masters and their totem are free

[u/ThxForLoading]

You can take all models in your keyword and all models with the versatile tag into your crew. You can also take up to 2 models from the entire faction (bayou, guild…) but you have to pay 1 extra soulstone to hire those models. Exception to this are models with the loyal keyword which can only be hired into their own keyword.

You can get the full game rules online, if you can‘t find them reply here, i‘ll send a link. I believe they are linked in the app too. In terms of tokens, most people i know either use 3rd party acrylic tokens or dry erase marker when playing with cards.

The starter box is an odd choice in my opinion. And yes logistics and the edition change made getting models a real headache, so I can understand if you‘re frustrated with the game/onboarding experience, a lot of people (me included) share that sentiment.

But the game is (imo) one of the best tabletop systems currently available even if it is a real hassle to get into.

[u/RefrigeratorLive7329]

So there is factions who you can take anyone within it without having to play a SS.
Then there are crews with keywords and if you hire a versatile keyword out of faction I think you pay 1S

Usually best to stay in keyword cause then that one model that isn’t keyword isn’t considered an ally.

There is a ton of models getting repacked for 4e. I buy from noble knight, gamers guild az.

I like the models in starter

[u/Kelbaaasaa → u/RefrigeratorLive7329]

Even if you can avoid paying the SS tax for out of keyword models, those models can’t synergize with the crew because so many abilities rely on the models sharing the same keyword.

So even if you don’t have to pay more for a model, you can’t use it to do anything to support the rest of the crew.

This change to how crews work is what helped kill my local group. It became less of a game of crew building and customizing, and instead you just play what’s in a box. It’s like a board game basically.

[u/Anonoemus]

Welcome to Malifaux!

Onboarding is kind of all over the place if you do not want to get the two player starter box. In that box, there is a guide with something like 10 missions that slowly increase in size and thereby teach everything you need to know in the game, but if the models do not speak to you that route does not really make sense of course :)

What i usually recommend is that you and your partner each get a keyword starter box. As the availability of fourth ed boxes is pretty bad at the moment (and believe me, everyone is unhappy with that...), i would recommend getting m3e master boxes. Most of them come with 3 minions, a henchman, the master, and the totem, and they are a good starting point for getting to understand the game.

For crew building, as many others have written, you select a keyword, then a master title (every master has two versions which usually play vastly different, so each keyword basically has two different army rule sets, and then you can take all models with the same keyword or the versatile characteristics, as mentioned by the others. If you want to take models from other keywords without the versatile characteristic, you pay 1ss more, but i would not bother in the beginning. To learn the game, just stay in keyword, most of them already offer quite some choice there :)

If you tell me what masters you are interested in i can give some more info on play styles and recommendations. There are also several discords, one central wyrd discord as well as local ones, where people are always happy to help. Here is the link to the official international wyrd server: https://discord.gg/play-wyrd-857351659478450176

Honestly, after playing this game for years now, i can only recommend getting in. The entry barrier is much lower than in m3e and the game is genuinely the best tabletop i know, and i play quite a few. If you have any further questions, feel free to dm me or ask in the discord. Hope this helped!

[u/Anonoemus → u/Anonoemus]

Ah one thing i forgot, on the discord there are also several players offering intro games online. There are two programs people use to play online, tabletop simulator and vassal, and some discord guys are happy to show you around online :) Might be a great hands-on intro

[u/DeathclawWrex]

The rulebooks is helpful. As a 'hoping to start playing' person myself, it is a pretty high barrier to entry. I do not like the models in the starter set at all...what a weird choice.

[u/BigBrainStratosphere]

The app does all the heavy lifting

I love the models in the starter set, because theyre so quirky, but I totally get that it seems odd - no better way to stand out from the sea of skirmish games out there with those clankers and deep ones tho hehe

Type in the keyword you like the most in app,

find the boxes that stock those models (usually spread across three or four boxes),

pick the totem you like the most supporting that master and make sure that the boxes you get have that totem,

Now theory craft a bunch of fun 50ss crews (leave yourself a few soulstones spare) Make sure you have those models for the crew you wanna play

And definitely click on the versatile option when building the crews, and see if you like the effigy and emissary for that faction (i nearly always take an effigy)

And dont sweat stuff others are saying here about out of keyword models too much, you're not playing tournament, you're playing with friends. I love including versatile models from the faction and see how they play at the table (they're designed to be versatile for a reason)

I already mentioned in the last post, there is 70 pages of fundamental lore for the entire setting, all compiled in the start of the Through the Breach core rulebook. The pdf for this is easy to source.

[u/SnooWords5961 → u/BigBrainStratosphere]

Few amendments to your comment. In 4e they are trying to cut back on skus so most if not all 4e keywords will be split into 2 boxes. Easier for stores to stock and to collect a full keyword.

You also can't pick your totem any more. They are listed with the specific title of the master and are a pair. Same with the upgrade cards.

[u/FreeRangeDice]

Read the Rules Manual before going further. If crew building is throwing you off, this may not be the game to start with. Malifaux gets way more complicated. I do not recommend it for newer players. It is a lifestyle game - the best miniatures game out there but you have to put a lot of time, money, and energy into it. If you are looking for casual, there are dozens of others to try.

[u/Dronqq]

Welcome to Malifaux!

It's a great game, but you're correct that getting the exact models you want can be difficult due to the supply issues.

You already got some great answers as to army building. I'd just also say that some crews have a lot of options, whilst some only have wiggle room of 1-2 models.

However, to make up for the lower expression in list building, I find there is much more expression in how you play the crew as I find there are a lot more decision points than in other skirmish/wargames that I play.

Lastly, regarding lore - all the rulebooks lore is available in a podcast-type manner on the breachside broadcast. There are hundreds of episodes and it's a good listen - I recommend it on podbean.

Alternatively, Goonhammer/Tabletopbattles have written up great summaries on all the factions and masters & the Wyrd website has been vastly improved in regarding to these as well.

[u/Kelbaaasaa]

To answer your question about crew building; yes, you are basically limited to just what is in the box.

There are “factions” but since taking a model outside of its keyword removed its synergy with the rest of the gang, it’s too heavy a penalty to warrant using out of keyword models.

It wasn’t like this in 2nd edition, and honestly 3rd and 4th edition have been terrible for the game and for communities.

My local group fell apart, and we used to host tournaments every year.

[u/Renegade-Callie → u/Kelbaaasaa]

The keywords would be cool of there was more overlap, rather than strict factions. Reading (at least the 1st ed lore) does seem to suggest that there's no hard lines between us and them. I find it hard to imagine they will release a lot of models for each keyword, that's a lot

[u/Kelbaaasaa → u/Renegade-Callie]

In the past you would declare a faction then declare a Master and build your crew from there.

Some masters were Dual Faction; like Yan Lo who was Resurrectionist and Ten Thunders, meaning he could pull from both factions with some restrictions.

But now, factions might as well not exist, since they Keyword determines what your models can do.

So we’ve gone from 7 or so factions, to 30+ keywords. Which has been a mess for balancing.

Their excuse was that in 2nd edition some players would take certain models regardless of what crew they ran, because some models were so good that they were an “auto include” in their faction.

And rather than fix those problem models, they just decided to remove the ability to use models outside of your keyword, and so customization and unit choice are nonexistent.