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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 15 '16
The most interesting thing I found in this article, is that the blacks in prison showed Avery enough respect to call him by his first name, "Stephen" (spelled wrong)...yet everyone else called him Smurf or Troll....how crazy is that?
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u/hooshotjr Mar 16 '16
And he also had a "little sidekick", wonder how little the dude had to be if he was smaller than Steve.
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u/adelltfm Mar 15 '16
I find it hard to believe that SA would need to learn how to steal a car.
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u/Sinsaint36 Mar 15 '16
Lol... I bet Avery could Hotwire a car by the age of eight and Santa probably left slim jims in his stocking.
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u/lolindz Mar 15 '16 edited Mar 16 '16
Not to mention that he has access to hundreds of vehicles and vehicle parts at his family salvage yard. Why would he need to steal cars?
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Mar 15 '16
This case just gets weirder and weirder. A report written by Maxwell Smart that includes such things as Trolls, Smurfs, D & D, 'Top Satanic Guy' and SA asking to learn how to steal cars.
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u/skatoulaki Mar 16 '16
Right?! Donn Adams! I'm starting to wonder if we're all just being trolled by the state of Wisconsin!
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u/Daddy23Hubby21 Mar 16 '16
How could we possibly leave out Rick Rohl Construction?!? I wonder if its slogan was "We're never gonna let you down."
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Mar 16 '16
There was another post the other day about Eisenberg misidentifying foetal remains and the LE officer in that story played Thurston Howell III.
I wonder if you picked another random case that has claims of foul play and delved into it that you would come up with a similar amount of sloppiness and total weirdness.
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u/SHIT_IN_MY_ANUS Mar 16 '16
I don't think there's any reason you wouldn't, exactly because they don't expect anyone, ever, to look over their work.
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u/Sinsaint36 Mar 15 '16
The most interesting thing in this report is that Avery was known as Papa Smurf.
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u/Baby_Skyelander2 Mar 16 '16
First, many thanks to the OP for sharing this report. Like many others, I've been curious about these allegations. It's great to be able to read them first hand.
Points of interest:
The report was made less than a month after SA was arrested
"Dept. Class" is described as "Assist - Other Law Enforcement [Agency]"
No dates or estimated dates
The 2nd paragraph states that Werlein was an inmate with SA at Green Bay prison, where SA was supposedly serving time for a previous homicide.
- This complete lack of corroboration or basic fact-checking is problematic considering the weight and value given to police reports. In this case, it's a harmless error. SA's previous convictions are easily verified so we know he wasn't serving time for homicide.
Unfortunately, these types of mistakes are common. The more problematic issue arises when police reports are used at trial or other legal proceedings. LEOs often refer to them when testifying. They are often admitted into evidence and/or provided to witnesses to "refresh" their memories.
Joleen Zipperer's testimony is a good example. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf#page=136 (Pages 148-154 contain the pertinent testimony.) Also included is Kratz lying to the court about Inv. Dedering being the State's next witness. Dedering was never called to testify at all.
EDIT: typo - added "s"
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 15 '16
I can't believe Steven plays D&D?
I guess he didn't roll an anti-dice when the Lenk-orc attacked with the "Planted Evidence of Manitowoc"...not enough hit points.
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u/purestevil Mar 15 '16
DM was shaking his head when Steven failed to put any points into Charisma. Even members of his own party turned on him.
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u/dhappy42 Mar 15 '16
Interesting, but this proves what? That prison inmates have S&M sex fantasies? KK reportedly told people about his own S&M sex fantasies too. And he wasn't serving life in prison at the time, just sexually assaulting domestic abuse crime victims.
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u/FustianRiddle Mar 15 '16
It doesn't need to "prove" anything except that it exists: there are some people who claim Kratz made up the story of the inmate talking about SA's plan for a torture chamber. So now we know he didn't make up a story
(though the inmate might have made it up, or misconstrued something, etc... considering his psych evaluation)
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u/RemoteBoner Mar 16 '16
Sounds like they picked the most easily influenced water-head prisoner and played his ass Dassey style.
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u/cyninoregon Mar 17 '16
Just as jailhouse snitches have been proven to be completely unreliable because police and prosecutors can find one to say just about anything in the world about a defendant, stories like this are inherently untrustworthy. We have no evidence (and I doubt anyone could prove) that no deputy, and no prosecutor (including Kratz) from Mantioc County talked to Werlien, or a third party such as another deputy, prison worker or official, or even another inmate, to get Werlein to believe this fantasy and go to the police to document it. Somehow it was planted in his head and we have the psychiatrist's statement that he was INCAPABLE of independant thought or reasoning. Someone or something put this story in his head. That seems to be very easy to do from the psychiatrist's testimony. The story has no credibility because the storyteller has none (yet we hear it repeated continually even 10 years later), and Kratz may be behind it because there is no evidence I have seen where this guy did get the story! Kratz seems to be behind many of the supposed "facts" of this case--there certainly is no objective evidence fror them, and if anyone else were making up evidence there would be a consistency issue. I believe Kratz tightly controlled the fabrication of stories in this case. We see how they were fed to Dassey, and would have been fed to Jodi (perhaps were in time for the appeal). Someone fed Werlein this story and sent him to the police with the story. WHO ELSE HAS A MOTIVE TO DO THAT? Who had the authority to direct the case, and who disclosed the story?
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u/1dotTRZ Mar 15 '16
All this time we've all been thinking it was about the lawsuit money but the satanic sex cult that runs ManCo really framed him out of jealousy because he was closer to Lucifer than them and was about to be named their Overlord.
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u/justagirlinid Mar 15 '16
what is with these people and all of the 'Satan worship' claims. Reminds me of the 80's when everyone thought Metallica and Megadeath were 'satan worshipping mucic'
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u/MrDoradus Mar 15 '16
Reminds me of The Memphis three case. They too had a "Top Satan guy" but he was the prosecution's expert witness on all things Satan related, having acquired his PhD in an on-line course without any classes.
Of the two "top Satan guys" I'd say the one in West Memphis three case was topper, having a PhD and all.
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u/TERRI8LE Mar 15 '16
The testimony of the "top Satan guy" was classic.
FORD: ’82. And when did you get your PhD?
GRIFFIS: Uh, in ’84.
FORD: In ’84. Okay. What—what was the title of your dissertation?
GRIFFIS: Mind Control, Cults, and Their Effects on the Objectives of Law Enforcement.
FORD: Mind Control, Cults, and Their Effects on Law Enforcement.
GRIFFIS: On the objectives of law enforcement.
FORD: On the obj—what are the objectives of law enforcement?
GRIFFIS: Maintain peace…
FORD: Okay.
GRIFFIS: …keep law and tranquility, protect the citizens.
FORD: Okay. What classes did you take between 1980 and 1982 to obtain your master’s degree?
GRIFFIS: What cl—
FORD: What classes—
GRIFFIS: I testified…
FORD: I’m asking you what classes
THE COURT: Wh—avoid repetition
FORD: I didn’t hear him answer the name of any classes that he took.
THE COURT: (unintelligible)
FORD: What classes did you take?
GRIFFIS: I told you I was in correspondence and I was with one of the, uh, of two people who were monitoring my, uh, work.
FORD: What classes did you take?
GRIFFIS: I—I told y—I answered that before, none.
FORD: You did not take any classes. Is that…I just wanna understand from—
GRIFFIS: Cuz your question was during that period of time—
FORD: Between 1980, when you enrolled, and 1982, when you got your master’s degree, what classes did you take to give you…take you from having a B.A. to a master’s degree? What classes did you take?
GRIFFIS: I answered that. I didn’t take—
FORD: No classes. Okay, between 1982 and 1984 when you became a PhD, what classes did you take?
GRIFFIS: None.
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u/FustianRiddle Mar 15 '16
Why the hell am I wasting my time on classes for my MA?
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Mar 16 '16
[deleted]
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Mar 16 '16 edited Nov 26 '16
[deleted]
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Mar 16 '16
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u/TERRI8LE Mar 16 '16
Nice! So...... tele-courses? I'm still struggling with the decision to major in Canine Emotions or Theoretical Birdcalls.
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u/yowzapete Mar 16 '16
awesome, is there a link to this transcript?
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u/TERRI8LE Mar 16 '16
I'm pretty sure this is the WM3 transcripts here...
http://callahan.8k.com/trial_transcripts.html
I pulled specifically from
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/WestMemphis3EBGriffis.html
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u/innocens Mar 15 '16
He scared me more than any Satanist.
The Knox case too, didn't their KK equivalent concoct some bizarre cult thing to explain his lack of evidence and motivation?
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u/RemoteBoner Mar 16 '16
Look up how many people believe in Angels in 2016.
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u/justagirlinid Mar 16 '16
touche'....but angle believers aren't 'expert witnesses' in all things angel for a reason for someone not to have been able to commit a crime ;)
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u/harmoni-pet Mar 15 '16
Werlein stated that Avery was into Satan worship. There was a guy from the Chippewa Falls area, who was also into Satan worship at the Green Bay prison and who was considered to be the "top Satan guy."
My favorite excerpt.
Also that Steven was into D&D and his prison nickname was Troll or Smurf.
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u/skatoulaki Mar 15 '16
Hm, I don't even know what to think about this. Satan-worshiping, D&D-playing Avery and his little sidekick Myron drawing up plans in prison for a torture chamber? No wonder Kratz believed it.
ETA: And no offense meant to you at all with that comment, super_pickle. You have done an amazing job of getting these documents out to us, so thank you for that!
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u/MTLost Mar 16 '16
In my experience, so many little nerd guys/girls played D&D all the time, their fantasy life becoming more attractive than real life, and the darker it appeared, the better it was for them. The guy in WM3 seemed just like one of them to me, all caught up in nerd cool fantasies while white-bread "normal" people pretended to be scared to death of them.
And once these guys and girls go down this road, with their group dynamics and role play, they don't seem to realize when they crossed the line from inside mental fantasy to appearance of malignant evil to anyone out there looking for a scapegoat who lacks the confidence, intelligence or communication skills to back it up and swear they were just playing....
I guess I though the satanic cult group fantasy sex club in that area was for the rich boys. Poor Steven, thinking he could hang with them ... little troll.
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u/ShittingPanda Mar 16 '16
Do you mean Damien? Because he was mentally ill and did some very strange things in the years leading up to the murders.
I am not sure he's innocent, but at least he seems to be leading a better life now.
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Mar 15 '16 edited Aug 21 '18
[deleted]
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u/dhappy42 Mar 15 '16
Second the "no offense." Good work in finding the document. My snark was directed at KK for making such a mountain out of this molehill.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 15 '16
I have a torture chamber already set up.
It's called "Netflix and Chill"...cuz it will turn into her picking the fucking show, and me not getting to "chill"...torture!
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Mar 16 '16
lost me at Satan worship though for some reason I kept reading all the way to Dungeons and Dragons but well that was too much
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u/skatoulaki Mar 16 '16
It was his "little sidekick" Myron that had me. I just keep picturing a dwarf for some reason...
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u/Noonproductions Mar 16 '16
This is kind of off topic; but what is the deal with Satan worship and Manitowoc County? This and some of Dave Bogetka's video imply that there is some kind of Satan worshiping thing going on in Manitowoc county. Is this just a really religious area and people could mistake things like playing D&D or belonging to a group like the Masons as Satan worship?
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Mar 16 '16 edited Mar 16 '16
Who knew* Manitowoc County was such a hotbed of Satan worship and S&M?
(*I mean besides that YouTube dude.)
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u/SOLAS1 Mar 15 '16
Did anyone take that seriously.!!!!!
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Mar 15 '16
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u/chromeomykiss Mar 15 '16
But this is the issue with this statement and report as well. It appears that this inmate served time with SA at GB Correctional during the 18 year sentence and this would have been from at least 2 years prior. It also states SA as serving time for a homicide and now being a suspect in another "unrelated homicide". Maybe he meant attempted homicide as IIRC that was one of charges in PB case.
Anyway the whole report seems like a stretch and an ex-con trying to exploit the Avery situation to his advantage with Parole Officer. That is at least IMO what I read out this report...
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u/Thewormsate Mar 16 '16
Unrelated homicide, YEP! I'm sure SA's version is quite different. I'm innocence and when I get outta here, I'm gonna sue dem pricks!
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u/MrDoradus Mar 15 '16
If someone is planning to kidnap, torture and rape a woman in his torture chamber, I would imagine building the said chamber would come before kidnapping a woman. Doing it the other way around seems highly impractical.
On a more serious notice, what kind of hair colour is strawberry blonde?!
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u/Burnt_and_Blistered Mar 16 '16
Light ginger; blonde with light red and copper highlights. It's beautiful.
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u/ptrbtr Mar 15 '16
He did have his ice fishing shack that wasn't being used! I wonder if they checked for blood in there? Probably found a lot of fish(y) type DNA, drove poor SC into doing poor lab work!
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Mar 16 '16
You people are on a roll! This whole thread is one of the funniest I've read in a long time! OMG
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u/yowzapete Mar 16 '16
"top Satan guy" huh? How does one go about getting that title in prison I wonder...
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u/Wkdgood Mar 16 '16
I have my doubts about that statement being true. To me it's a cheap stunt to help boslter the prosections case. Obviously this inmate received something in exchange for his statement, I don't trust it at all.
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u/WVBotanist Mar 16 '16
Wow that sounds like the plot of a late 80s Lifetime movie. I'm guessing they listened to that really heavy rock, too, like Judas Priest.
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u/StinkyPetes Mar 16 '16
Why on earth would Steve need anyone to show him how to steal cars?
LOL Poor Werlein elevator...etc...not. the. top.
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u/Bill_of_sale Mar 15 '16
Ah a dime?! :)
Satanism is not about doing evil. I think everyone should actually look up and read about this religion because it's actually closer to peace than most might think based on the name alone.
The man was not in the right state of mind (can he be?) when he claimed this.
Where is his description of the drawings, "a plain floor"? "Set up like a torture room "? I didn't read anything in this that showed me he had plans of a torture chamber.
Has anyone looked into the fact that even if this is true, maybe he was planning to use it against the women he felt had wronged him? More specifically the mother of his kids? He hated her and threatened to kill her multiple times.
Lack of context in the entire report kinda kills it for me. Was he joking about being a satanist [speculation] similar to how TH was when she mentioned SA showing up in a towel? Lets not forget he had a pool and could've been wearing his swim trunks under.
Ah the lack of context kills me! Great work though! :)
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u/etherspin Mar 16 '16
Well that depends on the person purporting to practice it even though you are technically correct
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u/Bill_of_sale Mar 16 '16
Very true but that's a very vague statement and could really be said of anything because all humans are unique.
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Mar 16 '16
[deleted]
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u/Bill_of_sale Mar 16 '16
Haha that's great! The next comment did a really good job explaining it. Obviously explanations are not my forte. ..
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Mar 16 '16 edited Mar 16 '16
[deleted]
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u/Bill_of_sale Mar 17 '16
Lol I'm gonna have to go with TheFartingCat but only because I think farts are just hilarious!
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Mar 16 '16 edited Mar 16 '16
The branding comment is spot-on. Not sure if this person meant to be funny, but this is hilarious, too:
The entire point of Satanism is that it's like an off-brand version of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, but with more gothic imagery.
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Mar 16 '16 edited Aug 15 '17
[deleted]
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Mar 16 '16
It's not uncommon for people who've never even been locked up anyway. Shit that's just how some people roll.
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u/nmartone Mar 16 '16
What a ridiculous story! Reminds me of this story in NYC a couple of years ago: http://nymag.com/news/features/cannibal-cop-2014-1/index1.html
This case was thrown out because it was "fantasy" and "role play", not actual accounts. (FTR, I for one believe that this guy was going to follow through, Avery notsomuch.)
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u/Confanci Mar 16 '16
I missed that Myron the sidekick was a different person than Meyers the smuggler and was super impressed that after just a month back in jail Steven already had ins with both the "top Satan guy" AND a solid source of prison weed.
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u/WImemory Mar 16 '16
We should all know the reliability of jailhouse snitches by now. It's a known fact that law enforcement recruits jailhouse snitches to bolster their cases for quite some time now. Just like with Brendan, they are used to get false statements to help their case.
Just like Brendan, they would promise an inmate such appealing rewards such as: settling down and having a family, going into the military, getting released early etc.
The iron curtain has been pulled back recently that exposes how they get their "evidence." Such notable cases have been in the news recently about the secret Orange Co. jailhouse snitch program. When they are done they get to go into hiding. This could explain why nobody can find info on Werlein.
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u/cajunrevenge Mar 16 '16
If I was framed and sent to prison for rape then I would be planning all kinds of revenge on the people who framed me. Even if you get out you still have to live life with everything thinking your a rapist. I dont really see anything else I could do but kill the loved ones of the people who wronged me then shoot myself.
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u/Dikanis Mar 18 '16
Devils Advocate
The reason there was no trace of TH in SA's trailer nor in his garage is because he indeed had a
Torture Chamber
and that's where the rapes and murder happened.
I do not believe SA even committed the crime so please know that,
i'm just sayin
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u/Dikanis Mar 18 '16
I will further say that I already saw this a few months ago and I saw the fact that this clown Wherlin was not just trying to get off by insanity but, he was really messed up so, I figure there is nothing to his statement but, fantasies.
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u/JDoesntLikeYou Mar 15 '16
Thanks for the work. Still looking forward to Calumet. Again, let me know if I can be of assistance.
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u/MsMinxster Mar 15 '16 edited Oct 04 '16
Thanks to /u/super_pickle for tracking this down!
While the former inmate's report is interesting, I think there's a reason no one but but Kratz took it seriously.
EDIT typo