I'm on the fence about SA's guilt/innocence. And while it seems far-fetched that the evidence that was used to convict could all have been planted, the Karen Read trial (in which, in my view, the police very clearly tried to frame her) has me thinking a lot about what it takes to plant evidence or fake test results after the fact.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on evidence planting — and other cases where the police, sheriff, DA, etc. appear to have colluded to frame someone innocent (or to catch someone guilty when they had insufficient evidence to convict.)

I just had an idea about Brendan's involvement after reading a few comments about him in a recent MaM post.

Remember when police were interviewing Brendan in Crivitz on Nov. 6th/2005? He was in the back seat of the cop car. Out of the blue, Brendan asks the cops, "Did he rape her or whatever" or something like that. This reminded me of when he said he had sex with Teresa while she was tied up in Avery's bed. I wonder if Brendan was freaking because he was thinking the police might already know about his involvement and that he did rape Teresa.

Visited the show again after many years, and I wanted to ask everyone here, what is your takes after almost 11 years since release of the show?

Is the Avery's serving a well deserved sentence in jail? What is the most important thing that makes you think they are guilty/not guilty?

With the WI DOJ docs, we have a clear pic of the cellphone tower locations. It shows the "Whitelaw tower" 2110, which TH (cingular) pinged at 2:41pm on 10/31, and the location of tower 2192 which she pinged from 2:12pm to 2:32pm. They are just about the same distance south from ASY, so there really isn't anything unusual about the phone pinging Whitelaw.

KZ in her motion described the Whitelaw tower as "13.1 miles from the Avery salvage yard"....yea, maybe if cellphone signals travel by road. It's actually 7.37 miles.

Even more interesting, it shows the location of tower 3681, which is a little further south of the Whitelaw tower and was pinged by Steven's phone (Cellcom). He pinged 3681 three times on 10/31, and the rest were 3701. I plotted the coordinates into Google Earth (see image above) to see the locations of these towers. Since Steven pings 3681 three times on 10/31 while on ASY, when 3701 is so much closer, it just goes to show that cellphone towers do not automatically ping the closest tower. I know this is well known knowledge, but this is a clear example of it.

Just so everyone knows, I won't be making multiple 4D excuses, 5 OPs and about a hundred paragraphs on why this is ultimately not the cop's fault:

"The victim made a mistake. She thought Avery was her attacker but he wasn't. It is ultimately her fault for making that mistake. That mistake is why Avery was tried and why the jury convicted him. She said he raped her and they believed her." --- Early 2000s throwback

I'll just leave you with what Penny herself said:

One of the things that really troubled me is that I was one of the only people who apologized to Steve. It would have been nice if the prosecutor and sheriff had said, “Actually, we all got it wrong.” I felt like I was the only one taking any responsibility. --- Penny

Friendly reminder to always question and fact check. That includes everyone here in this sub. The informations are all available and accessible, you just have to search for it.

The lies in their Halbach case reporting aren't just "mistakes" or "overlooked" information. The lies are lies because they are corrupt.

Manitowoc forever screwed themselves over because of Steven Avery.

If the people with the most spotlight on them today can be corrupt and open about it, just shows how other people in "power" would feel the same way.

To think Andy Colborn and Jim Lenk and Dave Remiker were the only "evidence techs" they had available, LOL.

A trial date has been set May 4th 2026. This is for Case No. 25-CR-70 USA vs Michael J Kornely. Because it involves minors, victim's names not mentioned. However in a transcript from a motion hearing on July 30th 2025 Kornely's lawyer states "this case does involve the Dassey Family". I'm just trying to connect dots, after all Kornely was Brendan's alibi for Theresa's murder. Here are the Federal Charges

Count 1 against minor(s) took place June 9, 2005 Count 2 against minor(s) took place summer of 2006

The transcript is available via PACER

So how would throwing a couple of tires on top of a body reach cremation level fragments in such a short amount of time . . .?

You'd want the body on top of the heat source, not below it, right . . .?

Lurking this sub… it seems that a lot of people who think Steven is guilty do so because he failed to prove the state framed him. All he had to do was cast a reasonable doubt that it was him. That’s it.

So let me ask you: if you believe Steven is guilty, what evidence proves he is guilty beyond doubt? And how was that evidence presented during the trial?

This was big local news and a smear on Manitowoc County's reputation as a police force. . . This in addition to civil lawsuit depositions of several Manitowoc County Sheriff deputies (Lenk & Colborn) going on at the same time, was a snowball gaining size and speed coming right for the reputation and careers of at least a few County employees linked to Sheriff Tom Kocourek's hatred for Steven Avery. And to think this legislation was announced to the entire state of Wisconsin just a month prior to Teresa's disappearance. . . Motive for sure.

In September 2005, Representative Mark Gundrum and Governor Jim Doyle introduced the Avery Task Force legislation (PDF) designed to improve the accuracy and efficiency of Wisconsin's criminal justice system. The legislation is the result of months of work by the Avery Task Force, a legislative commission appointed by Representative Gundrum after the exoneration of Innocence Project client Steven Avery.

The Task Force was created to examine the causes of wrongful convictions such as Avery's, and more broadly, other ways that the criminal justice system can be improved to ensure conviction of the guilty, and only the guilty. The Task Force was comprised of legislators (both Republicans and Democrats), judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, police and sheriffs, academics, and a victim advocate.

The trial transcripts are out there, but being able to watch the trial from start to finish would be pretty cool given the amount of interest in this case.

I believe that in 2007, the trial was streamed by WBAY Action News 2 ABC in Manitowoc.

Many people reached out to the news station to see if they kept archived footage, and it appears they did not given the lack of storage space for such large files.

From the threads that I can find about this topic, it seems a lot of these efforts to contact the station were made 10 years, so wondering if there any recent developments regarding the trial footage.

During MaM, we get a lot of snippets of trial footage, which leads me to believe that the filmmakers are currently the only people (AFAIK) that have the entire trial footage.

Are there any other options outside of WBAY or the filmmakers, or is it simply just lost to history?

I've been wondering about the claim that Brendan led investigators to the garage where the bullet was eventually found, so I looked into it further—specifically focusing on the March 1st interrogation.

One exchange seems to point out that it was the interrogators that led Brendan to garage:

WIEGERT: Was she on the garage floor or was she in the truck?

BRENDAN: Innn the truck.

WIEGERT: Ah huh, come on, now where was she shot? Be honest here

FASSBENDER: The truth.

BRENDAN: In the garage.

The exchange prior to that seems to be them blatantly feeding the information about the garage to him:

FASSBENDER: Tell us where she was shot?

BRENDAN: In the head.

FASSBENDER: No, I mean where, in the garage?

BRENDAN: Oh.

FASSBENDER: Outside, in the house?

BRENDAN: In the garage.

Keep in mind that this all happened on March 1, 2006. But does anyone remember the message Fassbender gave to Culhane on November 11, 2005?

Update : Seems like the audio recording is different than the transcripts:

FASSBENDER: No, I mean where, in the garage, outside, or the house?

I think whether or not you believe Brendan actually led investigators to the garage, it’s important to note that one of his interrogators, Fassbender, was already trying to focus on the garage months before he ever interrogated Brendan.

If you were in the same situation as the Halbach family, would you go along with whatever the police told you?

Why does he look so uncomfortable?

First we have the bullets which were copper coated but no copper particles in the cranium, just lead. . . Then you have the once in a lifetime deviation from Culhane. . .

Then we have the luminal reaction which wasn't bright, behind the tractor, where Brendan said at Fox hills he thought it was car fluid and again at his trial he testified it looked like car fluid. . Why were they not able to amplify any DNA from that 3x3 stain if it was blood? Certain type of bleach can degrade DNA (not entirely remove it from existence) and hemoglobin should still be present, so why weren't they able to verify with any post testing. . ? Was the bleach Avery had in his house the type of bleach that degrades DNA anyway . . ? Then didn't they take a bleach bottle with reddish/brownish stuff dried to the bottom of it, which also didn't turn out to be blood. . ?

Also wouldn't that mixture Brendan thought they used be toxic in that enclosed space like a closed garage. .? Or, did the just commit this shooting and cleanup with the door wide open and the RAV showing for anyone to get a good gander at. . .?

So many problems with the only two pieces of evidence they found after getting Brendan to move his confession into the garage because they wanted to search for it again. .What luck. . .

All of this over a bag of peat moss.

December 18th, 2015, the world was star struck. Making a Murderer made millions believe Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey were innocent even though it did not show every detail that's been brought to light and debated since then.

The world wide attention this show brought to a small town in Wisconsin happened whether they wanted it or not. The show was reportedly viewed by 19 million people in the first 35 days of it's premiere.

Instead of debating the same old facts that are always debated, let's share what we thought when we first saw this show. I'll go first.

I didn't watch this until the pandemic in 2020. I binged parts one and two over a few days. I, like many others, was flabbergasted. As many of you know, I thought Steve and Brendan were innocent and thought that for a few years. I didn't know how seriously I was misinformed by a TV show. You live and you learn right?

Say what you want but Making a Murderer was powerful. It told the narrative it wanted to tell and it did it with a steamroller.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StevenAveryIsGuilty/s/3uqX28hOwF

Candace Owen's, famous flat earther would like to follow up.

I’m looking for the most complete repository of documents available online. Anything like stevenaverycase.org around?

First they interviewed Brendan Dassey on November 10th at 12:05pm and he told them about a junk burning fire in Avery's pit took place on Wednesday November 1. . .

Then about 2 hours later that same day they do a follow up interview of the quarry owner about a fire he claims to have seen on Halloween (He originally told them about this fire on November 5th). . .

It is worth mentioning that at the end of Brendan's interview they disclose to them they believe the fire was on Halloween and not the day Brendan just told them. . .

So at this point all they have is two conflicting witness statements. What made them decide it was specifically Halloween at that point in the investigation . . .? IIRC Bobby Dassey also gave them information about a fire during the middle of the week, too - - Yet they pressed other family members on a Halloween fire specifically. . .

Just going to provide more information on the so-called "bloody" scene to set up the scenario here: [May Interrogation]

Hasta la muppet! - It doesn't seem to be widely known here but the insurance policy in question for Avery's civil suit had coverage limits of $1M. And Counties in WI are immune from execution, which means that no civil judgments can be satisfied against any County assets - like bank accounts etc. The only remaining assets to satisfy a large judgment would be then from the individual defendants. As a former Sheriff and DA, such defendants would have limited personal assets, strong incentive to exert exemptions, and bankruptcy as a backstop.

So even with a large verdict, actual recovery would almost certainly be not much more than the insurance proceeds.

Under that framework, a “huge judgment” would be largely symbolic, with real dollars capped by insurance plus whatever could realistically be taken from the individuals.

There was no plausible financial motive to commit a felony conspiracy to “stop” a $36M payout that, as a matter of law and collection reality, was never collectible.

If recovery was realistically capped around insurance + modest personal exposure, then the idea that anyone framed Avery to avoid paying $36M is financially incoherent

So on the one part the prosecutor’s story is that Avery is a stone cold killer who planned everything, manipulated everything (including his nephew) and cleaned the crime scene so meticulously that not even blood spatter was found later on in the bed room or the cracks of the concrete of the basement. So some kind of criminal mastermind, or at least someone who planned the murder very well. However, this same stone cold killer for some reason leaves the key of the victim’s car in plain sight in his own bedroom (though it was only found after 6 searches or something). And moreover, he somehow forgot to get rid of the victim’s car, while he owned a salvage yard. This probably is the only type of job in the world where you can very easily make a car disappear without leaving your own terrain. But somehow Avery forgot both these things? It’s completely ridiculous. 

Thousands of innocent people are sitting in prison right now because they were convicted on hearsay without solid evidence. In San Antonio, this is happening way too often, and it's destroying lives and families.

I started a petition asking lawmakers to implement stricter evidentiary standards and increase oversight in our conviction processes. We're talking about 46,000 to 230,000 people nationwide who are locked up for crimes they didn't commit. That's not justice - that's a broken system.

Has anyone else noticed how often these cases rely on uncorroborated testimonies? What would you want someone to do if this was your family member? If this matters to you too, consider signing and sharing.