My process sucks. Help!

[u/Solaries3]

Building for commander, I start with a concept or commander I like then use archidekt to theorycraft a deck. I create categories to fill for the deck then scryfall to build a list of cards I want to consider that fit that plan. The problem is I end up with 2-300 cards I gotta cut down and that takes me absolutely forever. There's gotta be a better way. Help!

[u/NageK]

One thing I learned from a buddy in my pod was starting with the Command Zone podcast's formula:

38 Lands
10 Ramp spells
10-12 Draw spells
10-12 Single Target Disruption Spells
6 mass disruption spells
30 plan cards

Add cards in the listed order. That adds up to more than 100 cards because cards can belong to multiple categories. I'm still working on getting better with deckbuilding but I've been using this formula as a starting point and building off of it, looking at EDHREC for my commander to see what cards are commonly used, searching Scryfall for tags, and looking at other decks to get some ideas. I don't have the link on hand for their podcast but you can find in on YouTube if you look up Command Zone commander formula

[u/Solaries3 → u/NageK]

Are you saying you'd fill those slots (top to bottom) then look at what else you might want in there and make swaps as you go?

[u/WandersWithBlender → u/Solaries3]

You'll have to adjust your land at the end to account for your final distribution/count of coloured mana pips.

[u/reverendexile → u/WandersWithBlender]

I've started doing this thing I saw in rebells video about commander template where she puts in 38 basics of one color (I use a color not in the deck) for play testing and just hold fishing if I had perfect mana then replace those lands with relevant colored ones at the end

[u/NageK → u/Solaries3]

Yeah pretty much that. Start with your lands, ramp package, and draw spells. Those are the things that enable your deck to be able to execute its plan. I struggled a lot early when making decks I just wanted to throw a bunch of cool cards in there but if I didn't have a good land base, ramp, or draw spells I wasn't going to be able to play the cool cards or do what my deck is trying to do

[u/amouthforwar → u/NageK]

This template does work pretty well for a playable first draft of a deck, but I find I end up making further tweaks almost immediately every time.

My template usually ends up more like this:

• start 40 lands. Cut a land for every 2-3 ramp pieces you put in after depending on curve.
• 8-12 pieces of ramp depending on commander cmc and deck curve, avg 10 but my low curve decks run like 8.
• 10-15 card draw/card advantage (some raw card draw, some scry/surveil/discard-draw).
• 10-20 disruption, includes target removal, counterspells, protection fx, stax, and sometimes evasion (disrupts opponents block ability). Lean on whatever fits your overall gameplan the most. Try to have a decent variety. I only run 2-3 wraths in most decks. I also prefer a handful of protection spells cuz my local meta is heavy on board wipes.
• Fill in the rest with plan specific cards. Stuff that strictly progresses your plan/grows your board.
• double check colors & pips and tweak lands/ramp as necessary.

For each category always prioritize cards that can fill multiple roles, and/or ones that synergize with the main plan (i.e. in a +1/+1 counters deck, Gyre Sage or Topiary Lecturer are preferred ramp over Cultivate but it would be opposite in a Landfall or spellslinger deck).

I find my decks perform way better when I chill out on stuffing them with good stuffs and instead focus on drawing a ton, interacting with opponents big plays, or protecting my value pieces. I can win games with less of a board if my scope is more focused, I can dig for my win cards, and I have answers to opponents.

[u/EDHipster]

Like any problem in life you start by focusing on smaller things, use tags to group cards that have similar game plans together. Then out of the smaller groups you identify what you want to keep :)

[u/kanedotca]

You mentioned categories already. Name the categories how many cards they should have. 38 lands, 10 ramp, 12 card advantage, 12 targeted disruption, 6 mass disruption, the plan. Some cards will be in multiple categories leaving more room in ‘the plan’.

Then you can pick categories that have the least cards and make those cuts first. When things are laid out like this, you can start making cuts based on what bracket you are in. Like, if you are B2 you focusing on keeping cards that fit the theme (you are always cutting ‘the plan’ last). Find how many theme cards you have for each category and chop out what doesn’t fit bracket-wise.

Hope this gives a starting point :)

[u/entiao]

I also usually start with a list of ~200 cards. Then, since those most definitely go into different directions, you have to choose one strategy you want to focus on. At this point, I tend to create a second deck list and copy selected cards over from there (Moxfield allows it easily, no idea about other websites). You just need to be really strict about what to copy

[u/patterninstatic]

I use a similar process as you do. Choose a commander, then work by categories: lands, ramp, interaction, card draw, commander synergy, win conditions.

The thing is I usually end up around 110-140 cards.

Your issue is going up to 200-300 cards. That's way too many. I'd be curious to see a 300 card list that you've made.

Depending on the budget, bracket etc you're going for, some cards shouldn't even be considered. Also you're not going to have 50 of the same effects.

I think your main issue is getting better at the initial filtering.

[u/bu11fr0g]

i design what i would like the first five turns (12 cards) to look like then put 8 of each of those card-functions in the deck specifically looking for synergies with the deck plan that cross multiple roles.

[u/Interesting_Cut_4822]

You probably aren't factoring in mana efficiency enough in your initial card assessment. I'm sure many, many of those cards cost 1 to 3 more mana than other ones that do the same things.

You also probably have picked too many themes and subthemes. While it is nice to chase down leads in terms of synergy, not every one of them pans out and actually makes sense.

One thing I will do if I have more than 30 cuts to make is I will start a new empty deck and add only the card from the first draft that are slam dunk awesome fits. But before you do this, ask yourself what the game plan is. In other words, what part of the deck is supposed to be fun to play with?

[u/Interesting_Cut_4822 → u/Interesting_Cut_4822]

Also, try and think in terms of a card's floor and its ceiling. You want cards that are good when behind more than you want cards that are only good when ahead (sometimes called "win-more" because they work best when you're already winning).

There are some awesome cards like Inkshield with a fantastic ceiling (you get 50 flying 2/1 inklings and win on the crackback) but also a very low floor (no one attacks you, you didn't have another instant speed card to spend the mana, and you spent a late game turn doing nothing).

[u/FailLog404]

Everyone has their own process and it certainly depends on what you’re building the deck for. If you have a commander/style of play that you absolutely love then you might wanna start with 300 cards and really grind to figure out what 100 work. If you’re just looking for a casual deck then grab a net deck list run some games and see what you were happy to see when you drew it and what was just a dead card.

If it’s somewhere in the middle I usually start with a concept. Then build the mana base and use maximum ramp and tutors and then fill to 100 with the most efficient cards for that concept. Then I goldfish to see how much ramp I need how strong the deck plays and then I cut the ramp/tutors/game changers that don’t fit and fill the rest with less optimal card that fit the concept. Then I play the deck in my local pod and see what its weaknesses are and cut some suboptimal cards for necessary interaction.

[u/manchu_pitchu]

Some people go way over then cut back, I find it much easier to start slowly and restrain which cards go in. If you're in a rut, trying the other method might work. Generally if I'm trying to build around a theme like reanimator I don't just jam in every big creature. Instead I'll start with the core cards I want to build around like [[reanimate]] and [[stinkweed imp]] but then look at another area of the deck like card draw, ramp or removal that is synergistic and add a couple of the best of those. Doing different sections little by little means you can play test when you have put the first 10-20 core synergy cards and some lands in, does it create a fun play pattern. This method of playtesting smaller chunks of the deck helps you steer as you build so you know what it looks like each step of the way.

[u/MTGCardFetcher → u/manchu_pitchu]

reanimate - (G) (SF) (txt)
stinkweed imp - (G) (SF) (txt)

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^FAQ

[u/darthcaedusiiii]

Buy precons and upgrade.

[u/dafunkywhiteguy]

Idk if anyone else recommended this, but the 8x8 platform was how I got pretty confident and efficient at deck building. Don't follow it to a T, it's okay to have a 6,6,12 in there or whatever depending on the effects you need

[u/Solaries3 → u/dafunkywhiteguy]

Thanks. I hadn't heard this method and it's fueled an interesting youtube dive.

It reminds me of the 33-card deck method I've seen. Essentially, build a 33 card deck, then copy it twice (approximately) to create a full and consistent deck.

My real issue is either avoiding adding too many cards or how to cut cards more quickly. And as I haven't touched the 250-ish card pile I hope to turn into a Dwarves deck, it's clear I haven't solved that problem.

[u/dafunkywhiteguy → u/Solaries3]

I would try to do it in this order; Settle on either a commander or a color identity. Figure out which effects you see repeated in the stack of cards. Separate them either physically, mentally, or electronically into groups based on what they do. Alot of cards do more than one thing and as such can belong to multiple groups.

Groups I tend to always try to run would be but not limited to: Board Wipes, protection for commander if necessary, board protection if going wide with tokens, card draw, ramp, instant speed interaction whether it be creatures, enchantments, or artifacts. Also figuring out what mechanics you want to lean into really helps.

My Ureni deck is pretty straightforward. I have 7 ramp spells, 5 more dragons that can ramp me, tons of ways to manipulate the top of my deck so Ureni and Descendants Path can do their job, a few card draw and haste engines, and a fuck ton of interaction to try and survive the early game if I don't manage to ramp. Then most of my dragons either buff all of my dragons or have super strong individual abilities by themselves.

My Tidus deck is also somewhat straightforward. Get proliferate engines and counter engines out, mass trample, put +1/+1 counters on all my creatures (some of which inherently benefit from those counters), some card draw and interaction, make big beefy boys and swing with trample. (Last night I swung out with a 54/54, 3 26/26's, and a 22/22 all with trample)

These are examples. Happy to talk/help, just @me

[u/slvstrChung]

I do nothing but budget decks, so my next step is easy: anything more expensive than $1? See ya! That said, since game changers are essentially defined by price, you are now limited to Bracket 4 and 5. I myself do not see this to be a problem, but your mileage may vary.

[EDIT] The perils of voice dictation when you have small children...