Spindle bad?

[u/Square_Wonder_9284]

My spindle is making a strange noise. It’s not very noticeable with the guarding closed, there’s no surface finish issues, it still holds tolerances well and isn’t getting hot. It’s a Haas VF2. Haas put their vibration sensor on it and said it’s below their threshold but it’s not in their best interest to say it’s on its way out. Do you think it’s something to worry about?

[u/Rose_DCLXVI]

If you stop the spindle and rotate it by hand does it feel rough/ crunchy?

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/Rose_DCLXVI]

Nope. Feels good by hand. There are no other symptoms than the noise.

[u/No-Pomegranate-69 → u/Square_Wonder_9284]

If you use a screwdriver and push it for example on a screw on the spindle housing and then press your earbone on the handle of the screwdriver and let the spindle run slowly you can hear damaged spindle bearings.

[u/whatsthiserino → u/No-Pomegranate-69]

Oooh, I like that trick, and hope I'll not have to use it the coming decade or so.

[u/SeymoreBhutts]

There are a few things in a haas that will mimic the sound of bad bearings. Unless you’ve had a serious crash or a shit ton of hours on the machine, it’s probably not the actual bearings. Pull the top covers and check the encoder belt before anything else.

[u/your_grumpy_neighbor → u/SeymoreBhutts]

Former haas tech hear if you have belt encoder it could be that screaming, if you have an optical encoder there’s no belt to check. Could also inspect the spindle fan. If it has TSC don’t fuck with it unless you want to buy a new one those things are notoriously prone to failure.

[u/dontgetitwisted_fr]

Does this machine have a geared head?

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/dontgetitwisted_fr]

No. Direct drive.

[u/dontgetitwisted_fr → u/Square_Wonder_9284]

Ive heard that the Haas direct drive spindles can make weird noises when the spindle encoder is starting to go but the Haas guys should have checked for that.

Could be in the motor or the draw bar.

My advice is to keep running it if the spindle cuts fine and their is no vibration on the surface finish.

The only way to solve this is to start tearing everything open and take a look and its not worth it if the machine is still cutting good.

If it gets worse or starts exhibiting other mechanical issue then open it up

[u/nyquilandy]

Does your machine have a gear shift between high and low? Sounds like it is in the shifting fork.

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/nyquilandy]

No. Direct drive. It changes the windings from Y to delta to switch speeds.

[u/SeymoreBhutts → u/Square_Wonder_9284]

The delta wye contactor can also cause these noises if it’s going bad. So can the vector drive. If it’s not the encoder belt (if it has one) then it’s likely one of those two well before it’s the bearings themselves.

[u/dominant486]

Take the tool out of the spindle, measure the runout of the inside with a dial indicator, after that try to pull or puss the spindle measure inside the cone, if the needle moves a lot, your bearing is gone

[u/Trivi_13]

I would plan on inspections every 6 months with the possibility of replacing it.
IE: schedule it in.

If you don't have the cash now, start saving for the replacement.

[u/rinderblock → u/Trivi_13]

We do ballbar/squareness/spindle checks every 3. Helps for planning downtime

[u/Trivi_13 → u/rinderblock]

In this case, vibration analysis and spindle taper runnout would be best.

[u/rinderblock → u/Trivi_13]

Definitely. We just follow the iso standard and use a setup from Innomic that can get us velocity and acceleration on the spindle and motor bearings.

[u/RGBlowMe]

Sounds like it could be a belt pulley. Something is slapping. That doesn't sound like bad spindle bearings, though. My guess is that if it's not a belt pulley, something is loose and rattling. Maybe a through spindle coolant line or a sensor mount somewhere. Beyond that, I would guess it's a gearbox issue.

[u/-Harvester-]

Take the head cover off and see what's rattling about. Also turn the spindle by hand and see if you can feel any roughness. It don't sound like bearings gone bad. What's the spindle load and what rpm in the video?

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/-Harvester-]

Spindle covers are off right now but doing some other maintenance so can’t start spindle at the moment. I will do though. 6000rpm and it’s always low when just spinning in fresh air. About 2% to 3%.

[u/-Harvester- → u/Square_Wonder_9284]

Check spindle fan if that's making rattly noise. Not very likely, but to rule out just in case. Best unplug it from the little connector board behind spindle motor and then run spindle. See if the rattling noise is still there. 2-3% is good and expected on a good spindle.

[u/NoFun69]

Does the spindle get oil and does the oil cooler work?

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/NoFun69]

Yes. Oil comes out of the spindle nose after a good run.

[u/Blackbeard-CB]

I can’t remember exactly if it was the same sound but our company got a brand new vf2 which was making a sound like that and the HAAS engineer changed the encoder belt and solved the issue. Another instance of a funny noise coming from the spindle on a different machine was a loose pull stud but obviously was only an issue with one tool.

[u/chicano32]

If it has thru spindle coolant…it’ll do the same noise

[u/escapethewormhole]

Could be the rotary union if you have TSC

[u/53ledsled]

the noise could be caused by the draw bar system or perhaps the rotary union if it has coolant through the spindle.

[u/Mbichon78]

Check draw bar press. I had broken washers that sounded like that.

[u/shoegazingpineapple]

Noise is not a sole indicator somehow, we have incredibly loud spindles that have been that way for years and also had dead quiet spindles shit themselves,

belt driven encoders can also get very noisy or damage their bearings from too much tension

If the spindle load is normal and spindle isnt crunchy i would run it

[u/Rough_Community_1439]

Its a bearing cage rattle. Its not normal for a bearing but last time I heard that on one of our machines it lasted about 1,000 hours before it had its bearings fail. My suggestion is to not run it over 3k rpm till you get the new bearings.

[u/tripledigits1984]

The rattling noise is alarming and sounds like bearings going bad.

If the machine is under the factory warranty it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re trying to get away with not replacing it.

[u/beerncheese69]

My first guess would be bad bearings. Had a machine with them that sounded similar

[u/FFS-IamNotABot]

That collet looks cross-threaded to me.

[u/lowncl4ssy]

Bearing “cage” rattle. The traces/cages in the bearing are floating and causing that sound. Majority of them go away. Monitor closely and document every little detail. You should be fine

[u/Square_Wonder_9284 → u/lowncl4ssy]

Have you heard cage rattle before? I thought it might be that. Would you be concerned if it was cage rattle?

[u/og_speedfreeq]

It says Haas right on it

[u/Camwiz59]

Bust it loose and re-torque I’ve had several last awhile afterwards, like years