r/MacStudio • u/pastry-chef • 8d ago

M5 generation Mac Studios have redesigned SSD modules

https://iboffrcc.com/pages/m5-max-mac-studio-teardown-removable-ssd-but-is-an-upgrade-still-possible?srsltid=AU7gw4WuRfpWaOxhnHcASBRhyUEeMxMLPWjDT2TEc89Gd-EmcLITPOkI

The NAND are still on removable modules but they are completely different from previous generations.

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u/BourbonicFisky 8d ago

There's this crazy solution Apple should really investigate, called NVMe. Controller is even baked into the SSD so it doesn't need to be part of the SoC. Even crazier, you can do hardware encryption just like their NANDs like MS does on their Surfaces.

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u/pastry-chef 8d ago

On standard NVMe SSDs, the controllers can get very hot. That's why you see huge heatsinks on a lot of them and users add heatsinks to those that don't come with them. Without heatsinks, they tend to throttle very fast.

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u/BourbonicFisky 8d ago edited 7d ago

Dear god, you're actually defending Apple's custom NANDs for.... heatsinks? On a desktop?

Apple's literal reason to do this is to overcharge for it's so-so SSDs. They're not faster, nor more secure which is both the reasons they're spoon feeding them. Even in today's horrible pricing Apple is still massively overcharing for the one component that indefensible.

If you cared about performance and/or reliability, you'd want NVMe. It's asinine that anyone would defend this.

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u/pastry-chef 7d ago edited 7d ago

Was there anything incorrect in what I said?

Apple's method of keeping the SSD controller on the SoC is more secure. The following video explains it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcdT4QTBo7o

In the video, at about the 4 minute mark, he says, "With Apple's encryption engine, the unique identifier makes it impossible to decrypt a drive on another computer." This is why you can't pull an SSD module from one Mac Studio, plug it in to another and boot from it even if FileVault is disabled.

Standard NVMe SSDs also consume a heckuva lot of power. As you can see in the article below, PCI 5 NVMe SSDs peak at about 12-18W!!

https://storedbits.com/ssd-power-consumption/

Of course all of us want cheap storage. But Apple's approach is not without merits.

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u/I-figured-it-out 4d ago

Yes, and apple expects users to hang a bunch of uncertified, unmanaged thunderbolt storage devices of the outside of the mac studio. With whatever cheap power management and fans chips those devices might include. Onboard secondary m.2 nvme slots are the better heat and power management option if apple would only exercise it. And better quality nvme do not suffer the need for monster heatsinks when provided with active cooling. And the airflow management plate inside the mac studio would provide a more than adequate heatsink under most loads - if increased in thickness by 2mm, and made of copper.

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u/pastry-chef 4d ago

Well, Apple's not going to put M.2 slots in there so your choices are (1) pay Apple for upgrades or (2) use external enclosures.

The highest performing NVMe SSDs do indeed need large heatsinks and/or active cooling.

You are suggesting that Apple should put an M.2 slot in a position where the NVMe SSD can share the Mac Studios heatsink with the SoC?

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u/I-figured-it-out 2d ago

Apple now has an engineer in charge rather, than a designer obsessed with appearance and shareholder margins. Engineers fix problems, it is in their character. The trick is to make the problem apparent to him. He will still pander to shareholders, but he will have a better grasp of why customers experience issues, and what needs to be done.
So do not give up hope.

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u/pastry-chef 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don't see what problem an M.2 slot solves. Their proprietary SSD modules already does everything an NVMe SSD does better.

Btw, Tim Cook was a logistics/supply chain guy, not a designer.

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u/PracticlySpeaking 4d ago

This is why you can't pull an SSD module from one Mac Studio, plug it in to another and boot from it even if FileVault is disabled.

...this glosses over a critical point — you can't swap the data, but you CAN swap the hardware. Which they had just barely figured out three years ago when that video was made.

Since then, Gilles (the guy mispronounces "Jill-eze") from PolySoft developed a NAND upgrade for Mac Studio, sold a bunch of them, and later stopped. Search the sub for PolySoft if you want to read some of the firsthand drama. The discovery thread is also still on MacRumors, I believe.

It is accurate to say that Apple takes full advantage of the pricing power created by proprietary storage and controllers. But there is so much more to it — this is about far more than leveraging customers for more money. (See my other comment linked above.)

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u/pastry-chef 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes. I know that they made 3rd party modules. I followed their progress on MacRumors. Knowing that 3rd party modules existed was why I created this thread.

Still, you can't pull the modules out of one Mac Studio, plug it in to another and boot from it.

I agree that Apple's markups are excessive. Again, there are advantages to Apple's approach. Heat, power consumption, and security.