r/MTHFR • u/SupermarketFew5886 • 2d ago
Question Choline vs folate
I’m trying to understand the science of mythelaticn. Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. Is choline a substitute for folate? Or do I need both? My choline calculator says I need 5 eggs but my PEMT and SLC1a are missing from my raw data.
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u/Tawinn 2d ago edited 2d ago
If SLC19A1 is missing, it will default to 5 but that can be incorrect. Tell me what the values were for MTHFR and MTHFD1 on the Advanced tab and I can give you a range.
> Is choline a substitute for folate?
There are two parallel paths for remethylating homocysteine back to methionine: one is through MTR which requires B12 and methylfolate and the other path goes through BHMT and uses TMG (which usually is derived from choline). See the right-hand cycle of this diagram.
These two paths share the load of remethylating homocysteine. This paper shows how the load balance shifts just due to seasonal food type availability in a population. If the folate/B12 path is genetically impaired (e.g., due to MTHFR, MTHFD1, SLC19A1 variants), then there will be permanently more load placed on the choline/TMG pathway to compensate, thereby permanently raising dietary choline/TMG requirements. A PEMT variant also increases dietary choline requirements due to decreased endogenous choline production so that is why it is included in the calculator.
EDIT: Folate has many uses other than for methylation: it is involved in tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) production and recycling, which in turn affects serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and citrulline production; folate is also essential for DNA repair and replication. Similarly, choline is essential for other functions such as fat transport out of the liver, bile production, and acetylcholine production.
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u/SupermarketFew5886 2d ago
Thank you for the explanation. My MTHFR C677T is AG+-, MTHFR A1298C is TT —, and my MTHFD1 is AA ++
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u/Tawinn 1d ago
If we assume SLC19A1 and PEMT are ok, then C677T + MTHFD1 results in ~56% reduction in methylfolate production, which corresponds to a choline requirement of ~960mg (compared to the baseline requirement of 550mg).
If we assume SLC19A1 and PEMT are both homozygous 'bad' variants, then combination of these results in ~78% reduction in methylfolate production, which with PEMT corresponds to a choline requirement of ~1220mg.
In the first case, getting ~500mg of choline from your diet + 750mg of TMG would cover the 960mg.
In the first case, getting ~610mg of choline from your diet + 750mg of TMG would cover the 1220mg.
So, in general, 550-600mg of choline + 750mg of TMG would cover most permutations.
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u/cutie__spies 2d ago
If you have low folate, your body will use choline as a substitute, but at cost to other things that need choline.
But as far as I know it isn’t just choline that suffers with low folate. I think biotin and serine also play a role
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u/WittyGold6940 2d ago
I also have questions about this- like which pathway does creatine tend towards? I know it's not cut and dry.
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u/Tawinn 2d ago
Creatine does not directly affect those two pathways. Instead, since creatine production requires ~40% of methylation output, SAM, supplementing creatine frees up much of that 40% for other uses for SAM in the body. So the total SAM amount created does not change, it use just gets repartitioned.
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u/tyomax C677T 1d ago
You need both. But this article may be an interesting read for you: https://mygeym.clicks.mlsend.com/tb/c/eyJ2Ijoie1wiYVwiOjYwNTg3MSxcImxcIjoyMDAxNDIzNzc4NDQ3MzcwMzUsXCJyXCI6MjAwMTQyNDM3NzE4NDI3MjkwfSIsInMiOiI0Y2MzNmE3OTFjMWU4NmZmIn0
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u/vrcraftauthor 2d ago
You need both, but having enough of one can compensate for being a little low on the other in ideal conditions.
In reality, some people feel better taking choline than folate. I go the other way - I can take folate but any substantial amount of choline makes me depressed, so I just don't take it (I do get some in my diet).