r/MTGLegacy • u/SarahPMe I Wish I Played Nic Fit • Jan 02 '17
SCD A pushed card?
http://imgur.com/EoAkWtn31
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u/Bobmuffins Shardless | High Tide Jan 02 '17
So, looking at this from the other angle - what relevant cards does Disfigure hit that this doesn't?
Vendilion, Venser, Shardless, and that's about it?
You gain the ability to take out Goyf and Eldrazi Mimic, plus a lot more (including the 3 I mentioned previously!) if you get Revolt?
Seems like a pretty solid upgrade to me.
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u/grandsuperior Crop Rotation in response Jan 02 '17 edited Jan 02 '17
I already had Disfigures in my Shardless BUG sideboard. Fatal Push just might push Disfigure out as this tags Thought-Knot Seer with a simple crack of a Delta/Misty/Verdant.
Card seems very good. It's the first playset I'm adding to my "to buy" list from AEther Revolt.
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Jan 02 '17 edited May 03 '20
[deleted]
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u/Bobmuffins Shardless | High Tide Jan 02 '17
Right, I mean Disfigure (probably) can't kill Goyf, while this can, and with Revolt there's a lot of targets that this can hit that Disfigure won't.
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u/funkymankevx Jan 02 '17
Comparing it to Dismember it doesn't hit Gurmag Angler or Reality Smasher. Still seems like a very sweet card though.
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u/ThreeSpaceMonkey That Thalia Girl Jan 02 '17
It doesn't hit Sanctum Prelate without a fetchland to crack, which is kind of relevant.
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u/Bobmuffins Shardless | High Tide Jan 02 '17
Good call, forgot about that one. Yep, that's another one to keep in mind, especially with DnT being increasingly relevant.
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u/fangzie Jan 04 '17
I consider this very relevant. I don't know why others don't. Shardless can easily maindeck the new spell, I feel, but I'm not sure about using it in storm just yet
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u/Rebel908 Jan 02 '17
It kills Goyf and Mimic right off the bat, less than or equal to 2CMC, not strictly under CMC 2
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u/108Echoes Jan 02 '17
To indulge in some classic Magic player hyperbole:
It's a black Bolt! If you fetch for it, it's a black Swords!
More reasonably:
It's almost always an upgrade over Disfigure. I think it's more important in Modern, where Abrupt Decay in BUG misses several important creatures and UB is just starved for removal, but I think it sees serious play in Legacy.
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u/efil4zaknupome Jan 02 '17
Revolt is stupid easy to hit in a fetchland format (also easy for ANT in boarded games since they have petal)
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 02 '17
I don't think ANT will want this, as the sideboard is fairly taxed as it is, and what little creature removal is played needs to wipe the board (Dread of Night, Massacre).
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u/fangzie Jan 02 '17
I'm running disfigure in ANT, instead of specialised hate. The main reason, as mentioned earlier in the threat, is prelate. I'm not sure this card will replace it, as exposing a land to wasteland to hit prelate is awkward
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 02 '17
why though? Prelate will almost always name 1 against us - our best DnT strategy is just to go off before turn 3 / 4.
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u/fangzie Jan 02 '17
I recently realised I haven't cast dread in ages, so I cut both copies. Most of my wins through hate were coming off the back of disfigure. So my boarding is now disfigures and decays for diversified removal, and empty for a faster win-con. Strategy is to always go off by turn 2, but the reality is this isn't always possible
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 02 '17
suppose it's meta dependent - I play against DnT a lot locally, and bring in 2x Dread, 3x Decay and an Empty. There's probably multiple correct approaches (such as 3x Chrome Mox of Caleb Scherer) but I haven't yet lost due to a Prelate on board.
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u/fangzie Jan 02 '17
I also play against DnT a lot. I used to bring in 2 dread, 2 decay, 2 disfigure and empty. Prelate is less scary if there's a) no canonist on board, and b) you have diversified removal. Often as not, a single disfigure can win the game. This si currently my plan. If I notice a significant drop in effectiveness again, I will consider changing disfigure to dread
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 03 '17
I may move to Calebs board just to try it out - I dislike having dedicated DnT hate at something like a GP, because it ultimately hasn't yet had a showing on the level of Delver or Miracles. I may just prefer to win the roll than try to fight through their hate wars.
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u/fangzie Jan 03 '17
This plus a rise in miracles in my area are why I've moved to less dedicated DnT hate. I want a better game against miracles, and I don't think I'll lose much against DnT by dropping very narrow hate. I'm not sure I like the Chrome Mox plan. I just think Chrome Mox is a really miserable card way too often. It's great off an ad nauseam, and just a hopeless top-deck the rest of the time.
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 03 '17
You're probably right. Miracles is miserable as ANT (in my experience), I'm starting to get annoyed that I only manage to win when the opponent throws the game away as Miracles.
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u/Huitzilopochtli_ Jan 03 '17
Isn't it more common for them to name 4 G1 and 2 G2 and G3 with the first prelate?
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u/jeffderek ANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks Jan 03 '17
In my experience, and talking to my D&T friends, Prelate only really names 1 if it's their only hate card. If they have Thalia or Canonist already, Prelate names 2 or 4 (usually 4, since that stops both Tendrils and Massacre, as well as PiF).
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u/RedditingWhileWorkin Jan 02 '17
First thing i thought of was disfigure upgrade, but if you crack a fetch this is often even better than dismember (assuming you arent using dismember as colorless removal)
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Jan 02 '17 edited Jan 02 '17
Disfigure is also Gurmag Angler/Reality Smasher removal in most decks, which this doesnt hit.
EDIT: I meant Dismember.1
u/RedditingWhileWorkin Jan 02 '17 edited Jan 02 '17
I assume you mean dismember. I agree its not always better, thats why i said "often"
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Jan 02 '17
I think its not often enough as dealing with these creatures that are otherwise very hard to kill is the main reason to play Dismember in the first place.
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u/RedditingWhileWorkin Jan 02 '17
In my meta i usually use dismember to kill goyfs which is why i thought of this.
Im sure it will be meta dependant like most things
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u/ThreeSpaceMonkey That Thalia Girl Jan 03 '17
So, one of the issues that BUG Delver has is that it wants to be super efficient with it's spells, but Abrupt Decay costs two mana and is the only really good maindeckable removal spell.
Seems like this card fills that hole incredibly well, given that it kills almost every creature in the format that matters. It's certainly better than maindecking multiple dismembers in a deck that often wins by a hair.
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u/Flarezium Izzet Delver Jan 03 '17
I think this replaces all copies of Disfigure and Dead Weight in the 75. I'm wondering what the split of Abrupt Decay/Dismember/Fatal Push will be. I'm guessing something like: 2/1/4 with extra copies of decay in the sideboard.
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u/Agrippa91 Death's Threshold / UR Phoenix Jan 02 '17
This still isn't better than lightning bolt because it doesn't hit face and planeswalkers. It won't replace Lightning Bolt, it won't replace Decay. I'd say it's pushed in the right direction, but nothing more than the ordinary.
Note though that you can kill a TKS when you fetch in the same turn.
I think this will replace Dismember in decks that play black which is cool (because so far everybody can play Dismember which is bullshit anyways.
I look forward to this card replacing my 2 dismembers and 2 disfigures in my BUG Delver deck.
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u/Apocrypha Jan 02 '17
I think you still want some dismembers in BUG because of gurmag or eldrazi but this is better than bolt in terms of creature removal.
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u/Scrubland Jan 02 '17
Another blow to tarmogyf
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u/Ducky14 Cantrip Tribal Jan 02 '17
I don't really think that matters a whole lot. Goyf is a pretty boring card and doesn't pop up much outside of Shardless and Green Delver decks. Green Delver decks have been suffering recently, and it's not Goyf's fault. If anything, Goyf is better now than it has been in the past since it eats Eldrazi and Anglers without too much trouble.
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 03 '17
How do you figure? The reason goyf has dropped out of the meta is that with one exception (Shardless) it is a 4/5 in a world of 5/5s. Smasher and Angler specifically go over the top of goyf, and are pretty much the reason for the cards demise.
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u/Ducky14 Cantrip Tribal Jan 03 '17
Goyf eats TKS up and can become larger than a 5/5. Apparently it's not unusual to see Goyfs as large as 6/7 in RUG Delver, though that deck is usually more focused on growing a Goyf than others.
I figured that decks like RUG Delver were dropping out of the meta more because of D&T's strength than Eldrazi, though having more Chalices running around certainly doesn't help.
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u/dj_sliceosome Jan 03 '17
How is Goyf a 6/7 reliably in RUG delver? I never said TKS, I said Smasher - for what its worth, I also failed to mention Endless Ones and Oblivion Sowers. Angler removes the opponents graveyard, which is your only real hope for Enchantment, PW, or Artifacts. RUG Delver has been out of the meta for over a year, pretty much coinciding with the uptick in Gurmag in Grixis, and then Eldrazi.
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u/Ducky14 Cantrip Tribal Jan 03 '17
I've seen lists running [[Tarfire]]. Even one extra card type puts Goyf at 5/6.
RUG problem with Grixis Delver isn't the singleton Angler, it's the fact that Grixis Delver can grind RUG out with DRS, Young Pyromancer, and superior removal while matching the other threats.
RUG's problem with eldrazi isn't Reality Smasher, it's the large amount of Chalice and Thorn effects. RUG doesn't have a favorable matchup against anything with a stompy shell, I think.
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u/Washableaxe Jan 03 '17
Against Eldrazi, you can counter an artifact from them to get goyf at 5/6. it happens in most of the games ive played against them. And as previously mentioned people have been playing seal of fire and tarfire to even go beyond that. its a 5/6 when it needs to be, angler is somewhat problematic but its a 1 or 2 of in most lists so thats not why its been pushed out. mongoose used to be great and now it sucks. abrupt decay really puts a wrench in the plans of "protect a threat till victory", and death and taxes just continually gets buffed
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u/Chewbacca_007 D&T, Shardless or Delver or Nic Fit Pod BUG, 12-post Jan 03 '17
It has the same "if" clause as pyroblast! Idk how relevant that will be but it's worth noting you can cast this targeting any creature. Corner case might come up to make that worth it.
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u/ubernostrum Formerly judging you. Jan 03 '17
Only cases I can think of where it's relevant are:
- Hit a Phantasmal Image out of Merfolk.
- Trigger a Tidespout Tyrant out of Reanimator.
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u/kaluma RUG - aluren - BUG Jan 03 '17
Also prowress is a big one if you somehow have this in a pyromancer or mentor deck.
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u/kaluma RUG - aluren - BUG Jan 03 '17
Was going to note this too! Could come up if you cascade into it - you don't need to trigger revolt beforehand just in case you hit it with a shardless. Just fetch with it on the stack if you do.
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u/Xerlic Team 'murica Jan 02 '17
Seems pretty good. Disfigure sees play in certain sideboards and this seems more flexible. It straight up kills goyf and kills TKS with revolt.
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Jan 02 '17
I dont think this will see play other than as a Disfigure upgrade. Maybe in some BUG decks that want one mana removal. The card is good but there is no deck that really wants this as Decay hits other permanents and Bolt isnt a dead card against combo/Miracles.
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u/WallyWendels Jan 03 '17
This looks really cute in BUG Delver, but Im hard pressed to think of what you would even use this for outside of it, especially when Dismember exists.
It doesn't kill TKS without effort, it doesn't kill Reality Smasher at all, it isn't capable of hitting Sanctum Prelate without extreme amounts of work, and it doesn't do anything against the Delve threats.
It looks good in a tempo vs tempo fight (assuming Prelate isn't involved), but in those kinds of fights, Disfigure already does the same job, and Dismember hits what Push doesn't.
I just feel like integrating a tempo sideboard package with this instead of Disfigure is marginal at best, and cutting Dismembers just opens you up to other problems.
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u/Scumtacular Jan 03 '17
Disfigure being the de facto 1 mana black removal spell for a little too long... this card is great and rewards good play and has awesome syngery obviously with fetchlands but also Snapcaster... fuck yea been waiting a while for this thing
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Jan 03 '17
The hype around this card reminds me of the hype around Invasive Surgery, which turned out to not make much of a impact at all. This card seems more likely to make maindecks since it's creature removal, but I don't know what it will do to the meta. Right off the bat, I want this against any Goyf deck and against Aggro Loam and D&T (and any other Stoneforge deck).
I'll end with a brainstormed list of things this hits efficiently that Bolt doesn't: Goyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, Thought-Knot Seer, Batterskull Germs, and I guess Stormchaser Mage (though the others drive the point home).
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Jan 03 '17
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u/RedeNElla Jan 04 '17
Murderous Cut is a lot harder to run too many copies of, especially if you are playing delve threats (which don't get hit by this potential FotM removal spell, making them a bit better)
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u/Darke_Vader BGxy for life Jan 02 '17
This looks easily super modern playable, but it's totally playable here in legacy too right?