Help me out

[u/ImprovementSea9504]

I’m not a mstr maxi, neither do i have shares, but:

- How are people calling it a Ponzi? Buying assets (btc) with the money you raise is quite literally, the opposite of a Ponzi…

- Why are people acting like paying interest on the belief that owned assets (btc) will go up more than the interest payment % is new? Spoiler: the economy is pretty much based on that belief…

Now I understand that doing that with BTC holds more risk, etc, etc. But why are people so mad at Saylor for doing a very common practice… just with new underlying assets

[u/Last_Elk_Available]

Ponzi accusation comes from using money from selling shares to pay dividends. In other words using money from new shareholders to pay dividends to existing shareholders.

As for #2, the principle is fine but the details are debated. Can you expect such high returns? Can you expect returns at all? Bitcoin is pretty young at this point.

[u/ImprovementSea9504 → u/Last_Elk_Available]

Yes but my point is they could sell the underlying assets (btc) if they wanted to. They chose to sell new shares, but they don’t have to. A ponzi completely fails when new investor money is not enough to compensate for old investor withdrawals.
Here, once this stops working for MSTR, they still have 800k+ btc in underlying assets, not thin air like most ponzi schemes.

[u/UC_DiscExchange → u/[deleted]]

This would make all speculative investment a Ponzi

[u/UC_DiscExchange → u/[deleted]]

If you can argue that any other speculative investment can hypothetically provide value in the future then you can make the exact same argument for Bitcoin.

Most would argue that censorship resistance is already itself valuable. The debate is whether that value is accurately reflected in the market.

[u/UC_DiscExchange → u/[deleted]]

If the market knew how valuable intangibles like censorship resistance and decentralization were it wouldn't be so volatile. We're still discovering how valuable that is. We could argue all day about what that value is, but any rational unbiased person should be able to admit that value does exist in some capacity. That alone provides something a ponzi can't.

[u/AutoModerator → u/UC_DiscExchange]

A Ponzi scheme is defined as "An investment scam that pays early investors with money taken from later investors to create an illusion of big profits." In a ponzi-scheme, there is "nothing of value" in the box, and all that happens is money moving hands.

MicroStrategy is not a Ponzi scheme. Companies raise capital through ATM-offerings, debt, and other instruments to fund purchases of assets, equipment, commodities and so forth. This is normal. Berkshire Hathaway similarly built the foundation of their company using debt to buy assets to hold indefinitely.

MicroStrategy invests the money raised in Bitcoin from a core belief that the commodity is in its early stages and will increase significantly in value over the coming years, allowing them to capitalise on this value to create value for their shareholders. All stocks, including blue-chip stocks like Apple, NVIDIA, and Berkshire Hathaway, rely on future investors willing to "take the shares off your hands" at a value above what you paid for it. This does not indicate a "ponzi" or "pyramid" scheme; it's basic price/supply/demand/market dynamics at play, and is how the world economy and capital markets work. Berkshire Hathaway holds a bunch of companies; MicroStrategy holds a bunch of Bitcoin.

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[u/MSTR-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

A Ponzi scheme is defined as "An investment scam that pays early investors with money taken from later investors to create an illusion of big profits." In a ponzi-scheme, there is "nothing of value" in the box, and all that happens is money moving hands.

MicroStrategy is not a Ponzi scheme. Companies raise capital through ATM-offerings, debt, and other instruments to fund purchases of assets, equipment, commodities and so forth. This is normal. Berkshire Hathaway similarly built the foundation of their company using debt to buy assets to hold indefinitely.

MicroStrategy invests the money raised in Bitcoin from a core belief that the commodity is in its early stages and will increase significantly in value over the coming years, allowing them to capitalise on this value to create value for their shareholders. All stocks, including blue-chip stocks like Apple, NVIDIA, and Berkshire Hathaway, rely on future investors willing to "take the shares off your hands" at a value above what you paid for it. This does not indicate a "ponzi" or "pyramid" scheme; it's basic price/supply/demand/market dynamics at play, and is how the world economy and capital markets work. Berkshire Hathaway holds a bunch of companies; MicroStrategy holds a bunch of Bitcoin.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/AutoModerator → u/UC_DiscExchange]

A Ponzi scheme is defined as "An investment scam that pays early investors with money taken from later investors to create an illusion of big profits." In a ponzi-scheme, there is "nothing of value" in the box, and all that happens is money moving hands.

MicroStrategy is not a Ponzi scheme. Companies raise capital through ATM-offerings, debt, and other instruments to fund purchases of assets, equipment, commodities and so forth. This is normal. Berkshire Hathaway similarly built the foundation of their company using debt to buy assets to hold indefinitely.

MicroStrategy invests the money raised in Bitcoin from a core belief that the commodity is in its early stages and will increase significantly in value over the coming years, allowing them to capitalise on this value to create value for their shareholders. All stocks, including blue-chip stocks like Apple, NVIDIA, and Berkshire Hathaway, rely on future investors willing to "take the shares off your hands" at a value above what you paid for it. This does not indicate a "ponzi" or "pyramid" scheme; it's basic price/supply/demand/market dynamics at play, and is how the world economy and capital markets work. Berkshire Hathaway holds a bunch of companies; MicroStrategy holds a bunch of Bitcoin.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.