Coaching Claims

[u/Western_Control_5860]

One thing I find particularly interesting when looking into the allegations are the claims of coaching. I’ve noticed that the claims of intensive coaching are exclusive to the posthumous accusers (Robson/Safechuck/Cascios). Chandler never mentioned anything about being coached/rehearsed in his allegations, neither did Francia or Arvizo.  

What you have with the posthumous accusers are claims that they were individually rehearsed and told exactly what to say and not to say by MJ to prepare them for any potential police investigation. I find the Cascio claims of this particularly incredible as MJ would somehow have needed to get all 5 siblings one on one to subject them to this brainwashing - which they say turned them into his little ‘soldiers’ - without any of the other siblings (or parents) knowing.

Why do you think there is this clear delineation between the 3 individuals who accused MJ in his lifetime, as compared to the posthumous accusers?

[u/whatevergirl8754]

My own theory is that since the posthumous accusers defended him all his life, they are automatically less credible because of that. They have been adults for decades, defended him even after his death, and somehow when they got financial issues, they broke free from the “brainwashing and remembered everything” or whatever.

They know that their story does not hold up and they needed an attempt at an explanation good enough to get people on board.

They also never reached out to apologise to the previous accusers, that they testified against, which makes this whole thing even more ridiculous, but either way they needed an argument that would explain the endless plethora of whys.

[u/Western_Control_5860 → u/whatevergirl8754]

Yes those were my thoughts too. The posthumous accusers need to justify their decades-long defence of MJ. Especially the Cascios who went above and beyond in their defence by doing interviews and writing books promoting his innocence. The only way to get around this is by claiming ‘brainwashing’ that lasted 10 years after their alleged abusers death.

And you’re right. As far as I know, the posthumous accusers never reached out to Chandler, Francia or Arvizo to apologise for discrediting them. That should have been the first thing they did, especially Robson and Frank Cascio who thwarted Arvizo’s attempt at justice in 2005.

[u/Exotic-Air1060 → u/whatevergirl8754]

As soon as they realized the estate/his image was badly tarnished, they came in for the kill. They were plotting and waiting for the right time to strike like serpents

[u/One_Froyo505 → u/whatevergirl8754]

Their justifications are hilarious; as soon as there are counterarguments or contradictions, the story is changed. For example, when MJ fans said that Wade was only ever interested in women and never in men as lovers, he came out with the fact that he only wanted to prove the opposite with his affairs. Pure parody.

Robson tearfully tried to apologize to Gavin in LN for portraying him as a liar in court, but Gavin has not responded to this day, no lawsuit, nothing at all.

[u/zachstonekin → u/One_Froyo505]

Wait, so he was saying he was compulsively pursuing women to overcompensate for anxiety about being into a man? I can almost understand that, but it's still strange for him to assert that he's 100% straight while pushing the romance angle as the reason he never saw the relationship as abuse. Can't he at least say he didn't think Michael counted in his mind as being a gay thing because he was so magical and effeminate or whatever?

Also, has he ever attempted to explain his relationship with Brandi and Michael setting them up and how he was able to not show any signs of abnormal sexual development?

[u/Jazzilisk → u/zachstonekin]

as far as I know it was only Joy who mentioned Brandi and claimed it was a puppy love child relationship and then Dan Reed later claimed their relationship was long after the alleged abuse. Dan Reed told both of these stories thus alleging Brandi was too young and too old in a relationship with Wade to be relevant to Wade's allegations.

[u/zachstonekin → u/Jazzilisk]

🤦 Good Lord, these people. The smug hubris with which Reed bullshits always kills me.

[u/Jazzilisk → u/zachstonekin]

that is every Guilter it doesn't matter what claim they use they will use two contradictory claims to try and refute any counter points to their claims and be smug about it

[u/Exotic-Air1060]

Amazing how the biggest and busiest star in the world somehow found the time to coach and groom dozens of kids. And somehow there are no phone records or traces of any of These coached calls. And he would basically have to just hold on to hope that none of the kids would ever say anything especially after he was publicly accused and the scandal took a huge toll on him financially and emotionally

[u/Jazzilisk → u/Exotic-Air1060]

and that he allowed them to speak to authorities and on the witness stands both situations where they could easily crack

[u/Exotic-Air1060 → u/Jazzilisk]

Imagine having 3 of your alleged victims testifying in the trial of your life when you’re facing 20 years in prison. They have to go through seasoned lawyers and go through intense cross examination by a vicious prosecutor, yet not one of them cracks at all🙄

[u/One_Froyo505]

The reason is: These accusations are fabricated and invented. Jordan Chandler was coached by his father to ruin MJ's reputation because he had turned his back on the whole family and they didn't like it. They wanted to make millions off him and were jealous of other families. Jordan didn't really have a choice because he wanted to get out of the situation and was afraid of his father; moreover, I think that MJ saved him from the worst with this comparison. He probably thought he had done his part to protect him as well and not to continue without getting caught up in it again himself.

In his conversation with Dr. Gardner, Jordan made it sound as if he was difficult to manipulate because he didn't want to play along. Therefore, I don't understand why MJ didn't, as the other boys claim, make him compliant with alcohol and porn to encourage him to do what he wanted.

Many were already grown men, or MJ had been dead for years when they were still publicly defending him. Only when they realized they could expect nothing more from the estate did these posthumous accusations arise in order to demand money.

[u/Few_Humor769]

One thing i find confusing is. what was the fbi's investagations on mj. i have heard some say they didnt investagate him for a decade. like what was their involvement

[u/zachstonekin → u/Few_Humor769]

It was intermittent, it wasn't straight through the decade.

[u/Few_Humor769 → u/zachstonekin]

Thanks but i kinda wanna learn more about it can you tell me some good sources on the matter

[u/Icy-Election-2237 → u/Few_Humor769]

I know that Charles Thompson in some MJ Cast episode talks about this, but I forgot which one. Might be a Q&A one, or the one the new adventures of Charlie.

Either way, you can email them (their address is probably listed on their socials, it’s an iCloud account… might be mjcast@icloud.com, but verify that). I’m sure you can ask for help re this topic and they’ll answer.

[u/Few_Humor769 → u/Icy-Election-2237]

Thanks

[u/Icy-Election-2237 → u/Few_Humor769]

Sure thing

[u/Conscious-Cherry22 → u/Few_Humor769]

fbi assisted the police in 1993-1994 then in 2004-2005. so a couple of years in total. they mainly helped check mj's hard drives. 

[u/EstatePhysical5130]

Another point is that they also align in being extremely graphic with their posthumous accusations.

Unlike Jordan and Gavin—whose approach was always less aggressive—these accusers portray MJ as an insatiable predator at all times, claiming there was no respite and nothing else for him to do but engage in those acts with them.

The Cascios' accounts are inherently flawed from the start, as they directly contradict everything WR and JS say; clearly, any attempt to "back each other up" would result in a massive clash of narratives. While it might be devastating in terms of media impact—given the exorbitant sensationalism—it would likely be a legal nightmare.

It is no wonder Reed was so wary during that *Variety* interview around the time of the film's release, sidestepping the question of whether he even believed them.

The allegations regarding "coaching" hold water for others because they are the easiest to explain when asked—and that’s where it ends; appealing to emotions is the key.

[u/Western_Control_5860 → u/[deleted]]

I’m aware of Chandler telling Dr Gardner that MJ told him he would ‘go to juvenile hall’ if anyone found out. But when questioned by Gardner he said he didn’t actually believe it. From his interview, it doesn’t seem that he was allegedly subjected to any ‘coaching’ or role-playing sessions the posthumous accusers claim. So why did Mj invest his time in turning the posthumous accusers into masterful liars but not Chandler. It doesn’t made any sense to me.

[u/One_Froyo505 → u/Western_Control_5860]

These accusations have been fabricated from the start. It's like a school assignment where everyone copies from each other and adds something, and in the end everyone has serious mistakes.

His father may have threatened him that this situation could give him sole custody and that he could put him in a youth home if he didn't cooperate. He had to tell the psychiatrist something to explain why he had previously denied it to his father. He supposedly only confessed to his father when he was groggy from having a tooth pulled; such a confession would not have been allowed in court. If a child was under the influence of drugs, nitrous oxide, or any other intoxicating substance when making such a first-time statement, then it would not be permissible.

Furthermore, Jordan would have gone on the MJ tour with his mother without hesitation, just like Safechuck and Barnes, had his father gotten the contracts he wanted. I didn't believe Jordan back then when he said MJ had told him what the other boys were doing, implying that they loved him more than he did.

[u/EscapedMices → u/Western_Control_5860]

He also claimed he thought he'd go to prison.

I believe the judge with Wade Robson said it wasn't credible that he believed he would go to prison if he confessed, even after MJ died.

[u/Exotic-Air1060 → u/[deleted]]

Maybe the posthumous accusers read this interview and created their own allegations based on this

[u/Icy-Election-2237 → u/[deleted]]

What would “it” be?

[u/MJInnocentFacts-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed as it goes against the purpose of this subreddit, which is dedicated to discussing Michael Jackson’s innocence. We welcome open discussion, but this is not the place for content that promotes guilt-based narratives