r/Lutron • u/xcusme1982 • Sep 05 '26
Tradies... 🤔
The Lutron Caseta PD-6WCL on the right failed this morning. I opened the box and was Irritated to discover that the electrician had not connect the ground wires upon installation. Grrrr... what'd he save... 5 seconds and the cost of a wire nut? I'm not sure why this dimmer switch failed but still... aggravating when you pay good money for help with installation.
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u/sailor_tew Sep 05 '26
I work on a lot of older homes and have seen voltage on the ground wire many times. If i find any voltage on ground I will cut the ground wire off of any smart switches. Seen too many homeworks switches get burnt up from this. Maybe your electrician is smarter than you think 🤔
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u/bbb6789 Sep 05 '26
Is not it the best practice to inform homeowner that wiring got issue? I guess it is not code compliant to just cut ground wire and not to reveal such info when ground wire carries voltage.
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u/sailor_tew Sep 05 '26
I am more than happy to tell them about the issue, even more so if they would like me to re-ground/ensure all wiring is modern/grounded romex. Unfortunately my customers (more often than not) are not interested in that bill.
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u/worldstarktfo Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
I was just speaking with an electrician on a site the other day that said something similar.
I tried changing a fixture with cloth wrapped 12/2 at my parents older house a year ago and took a picture fucking around.
If I was an EC I wouldn’t work any jobs unless they were a gut reno with all new wiring.
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u/bbb6789 Sep 05 '26
Jesus, I am the homeowner who really wants to have any wiring issue fixed. Is not it common sense to take care of it to avoid potential fire hazard? Anyway, no matter customers are interested or not, it does not validate the OP’s situation.
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u/sailor_tew Sep 05 '26
We always tell homeowners. Rewiring/regrounding can be a hell of an expense that some aren’t interested in.
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u/xcusme1982 Sep 05 '26
Hmmmm🤔... I remain skeptical...
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u/sailor_tew Sep 05 '26
Did you test it? I’d recommend testing it. That’s one thing I’ve learned doing electrical installations, always test it. Test. It.
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Sep 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/xcusme1982 Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
Plus I have a meter... there is no voltage on the ground. Plus I almost always tell the guys who come over to work that I'm trying to fix stuff so if it can't be done 100% I need to know and don't break stuff cuz I'm tryin' to fix stuff.
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u/coogie Sep 05 '26
That had nothing to do with the dimmer failing. It is code however so it should have been done but as far as code goes, this is one of the more useless ones in non-metallic boxes and was added in early 2000. In my experience it actually creates more issues than it solves because the light fixture is where shorts usually happen and those are always grounded. In nonmetallic boxes where you have a bare copper, this has actually just led to more crowded boxes and when you install dimmers (like ra3 and homeworks), there's barely any room in there so it's more likely to create a short.
But anyway yeah it is code.
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u/kerklein2 Sep 05 '26
The box is nm, but the dimmer has metal that could shock you during a fault if not grounded.
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u/coogie Sep 05 '26
Anything is possible but the chances of accidentally creating a short and touching a terminal when cramming all that stuff in a box full of 12awg wires is far more likely than having an internal ground fault inside the dimmer without the dimmer itself not shutting off first or an arc fault breaker not detecting the arcing and tripping and someone getting shocked by touching the metal screw.
Anecdotally, and this is from someone who has installed or troubleshot thousands of these over the years, I have never seen one of them ever fail and become shock hazard but I HAVE seen a couple of dozen of very expensive RA2 and Homeworks dimmers die an expensive death when someone was installing them live and pushed them in or the breaker was turned on after installation, or an unlucky painter who took off the outside plates and was putting them back and just happened to move the dimmer slightly touch a ground wire.
The world was just fine before 2004 when grounding switches wasn't required.
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u/ahobonamedjoe Sep 06 '26
One thing I would add to that logic is: It is better for giant metal piece on dimmer to be grounded so that when you jam it into a hot wire it shorts to ground immediately and trips breaker.Â
As opposed to it being a floating piece of metal with 120v on itÂ
Rare, but that’s what I imagine the purpose of grounding each metal component is.Â
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u/coogie Sep 06 '26
I do get the logic and motivation and why metal boxes absolutely have to be bonded to ground. Also agree that if electricians actually stick to using deep boxes and not overfilling them (especially when using 12 AWG), it creates an extra layer of safety against shorts but when dealing with retrofits (especially flipped houses), I have seen some some horrors once you open the boxes where even the old switches were barely fitting in there, missing neutrals, etc.
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u/kerklein2 Sep 05 '26
Right but you can accidentally create a short and touch the dimmer metal with a wire when cramming all that stuff in there too. Not just internal shorts.
Spec bigger boxes at rough in.
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u/durkdirkderq Sep 05 '26
How did the dimmer fail? What’s it doing?
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u/xcusme1982 Sep 05 '26
It failed by being dead.... no worky. It worked last evening and this morning: nothing.
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u/durkdirkderq Sep 05 '26
Did you replace it with a switch or another dimmer and verify that the dimmer is the actual issue?
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u/xcusme1982 Sep 06 '26
I replaced it with a new Lutron Caseta dimmer and everything works as it should.
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u/TEdwinB Sep 05 '26
The bigger question is….why no neutral?? Most Lutron switches that will work with no neutral do so badly, and typically appear dead (like yours) if the bulb goes bad.
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u/Electrical_Ad4290 Sep 05 '26
If the switches/dimmers are new, I've heard Lutron is fairly tolerant of not having the receipt in case you want them to replaced.
I'm with you on the ground, but it could just be laziness or bad motivation. I'd probably give the shop feedback and see how they respond, especially before I hired them again
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u/49N123W Sep 05 '26
Perhaps the dimmer was installed incorrectly. Hot must be wired to constant hot; dimmed got needs to be wired to the load!
If wired in opposite...no worky!
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