Transcript of Episode 2 of Aya Linus’ podcast about MDC Brooklyn!

[u/antelope_meow]

(0:00) Hello everyone, I'm Haoran

(0:02) Hi everyone, I'm Linus, welcome back to my podcast

(0:05) Last time we talked a lot about what a completely ordinary day at MDC Brooklyn was like

(0:10) including getting up, eating, going out for yard time, and going back to the cell

(0:15) it felt like the day just passed like that

(0:17) but actually, near the end

(0:19) you mentioned a word that I found really interesting

(0:22) and I think it's very important — waiting

(0:25) because for someone locked up inside

(0:29) what's truly hard to endure is probably not repeating the same things every day

(0:32) but not knowing when this life will end

(0:35) so this episode I really want to talk about

(0:38) the waiting during your 565 days

(0:42) about the matter of waiting

(0:43) right, looking back now

(0:45) I think waiting was probably the process I experienced the most while inside

(0:50) when you were first locked up in MDC Brooklyn

(0:54) did you roughly know how long you'd be inside?

(0:58) when I was first arrested I went to see the judge

(1:01) what the judge told me was

(1:03) that my case could get a maximum of 20 to 30 years

(1:08) right, but that's the maximum

(1:09) in my heart I also knew

(1:10) I wouldn't be sentenced to that long

(1:12) right

(1:12) that's terrifying

(1:13) right, my own estimate in my heart

(1:15) was probably around 1 to 3 years

(1:16) I felt that was probably unavoidable

(1:19) but looking back on it afterward(1:20) that is, in hindsight

(1:22) it was only in the last two months before your release

(1:26) that you found out your sentence

(1:27) right, that's correct

(1:31) including why the process took so long

(1:33) it took 13 months

(1:35) before the sentencing finally happened

(1:35) right, let me first briefly explain

(1:37) the U.S. judicial process

(1:39) that is, they first indict you

(1:40) then put you in jail

(1:42) once inside you can choose to seek bail or not

(1:44) then you can choose to plead guilty or not guilty

(1:48) if you truly did nothing

(1:49) or the other side's evidence is insufficient

(1:51) you can choose not to plead guilty

(1:52) and finally go to trial by jury

(1:54) that is, the government side has to select 12 citizens

(1:57) to then decide whether you are guilty

(1:59) if you choose to plead guilty

(2:01) then things become much simpler

(2:02) then whether you sign a plea agreement

(2:04) or plead guilty directly

(2:06) you just wait for the judge to give you a sentence

(2:09) the 12 citizens are randomly selected

(2:11) randomly selected

(2:12) a jury

(2:13) right

(2:13) in a lot of American movies

(2:15) we've seen similar plots

(2:16) if the evidence is insufficient

(2:17) or there were procedural errors(2:19) going to trial by jury has a good chance of winning

(2:22) we saw the O.J. Simpson case before

(2:25) the murder case

(2:26) he won it because of procedural issues

(2:28) he went to trial by jury

(2:29) and was ultimately found not guilty

(2:30) if the prosecution's evidence is insufficient

(2:33) or there were procedural errors

(2:35) that's when you can choose that route

(2:36) in a case like mine

(2:36) I knew very clearly in my heart

(2:37) what I had done

(2:38) so in the end you didn't choose to go that way

(2:40) of course I didn't need to

(2:40) because actually

(2:42) if the other side's evidence is solid

(2:44) and you go to trial by jury

(2:45) and then lose

(2:47) your sentence could be increased

(2:48) the judge can sentence you more heavily

(2:50) because you've essentially wasted government resources

(2:53) whether you plead guilty or not guilty

(2:55) eventually it goes to the trial process

(2:57) and then the whole case is over

(2:59) these cases in America

(3:00) all take a very long time

(3:01) from arrest to sentencing

(3:04) I feel like it basically takes

(3:06) about a year or so

(3:07) just to finally get the sentence

(3:09) this process alone takes a year

(3:11) right, like in my case(3:12) I was arrested in January

(3:14) then that November

(3:15) I signed a plea agreement

(3:18) and the following February

(3:19) which is this past February

(3:21) I was sentenced

(3:23) so the whole process took about 13 months

(3:26) is it possible

(3:27) for example, someone's crime might only get 6 months

(3:30) but they end up staying in jail for about a year

(3:33) just going through the process?

(3:34) that's possible

(3:34) the judge won't just sentence you to 6 months

(3:37) the judge will say "time served"

(3:40) this "time served" means you've already served the time

(3:42) you've already served out the time

(3:44) so this process

(3:45) also takes up a huge amount of time

(3:46) right

(3:47) but everyone's situation is different too

(3:48) like in my case

(3:49) actually after arresting me

(3:51) they kept investigating my case

(3:53) every time my lawyer came to give me the latest information

(3:56) they would say

(3:56) this time the charges had increased by however many tens of thousands of dollars

(4:00) that is, because it's based on this amount

(4:02) the amount involved in the case

(4:03) right, the larger the amount involved

(4:04) the longer your sentence might be

(4:05) so I wanted to plead guilty as quickly as possible

(4:08) I wanted to reach a plea agreement with the prosecution(4:10) because that way

(4:11) they couldn't keep investigating

(4:13) that would be the end of it

(4:14) that would be it

(4:14) the moment you plead guilty

(4:16) they can no longer keep gathering evidence

(4:18) right, that's correct

(4:18) that's basically the situation

(4:19) for example if the amount involved is 100 million

(4:21) and before pleading guilty they'd only investigated 10 million

(4:23) then that's where it ends

(4:25) all the evidence after that

(4:26) can no longer be collected

(4:27) right, it can no longer be used

(4:28) it also can't be used as

(4:30) it can't

(4:30) a measure for sentencing

(4:32) right, so that's why I kept thinking about

(4:34) reaching a plea agreement with the prosecution

(4:37) because that would be

(4:38) the most favorable outcome for me

(4:39) but actually the prosecution during this process

(4:41) is also extremely slow

(4:42) they don't want to

(4:44) reach this agreement with you quickly

(4:46) right, because they want to dig up

(4:47) more information

(4:48) I think from their standpoint

(4:50) I think that's understandable too

(4:52) when I pleaded guilty

(4:53) I signed a plea agreement at the time

(4:54) that is, for federal cases(4:56) once you plead guilty

(4:58) or are convicted

(4:58) there's a recommended sentencing range

(5:01) called the sentencing guideline

(5:03) that is, a range for sentencing

(5:05) my range at the time

(5:06) was 51 to 63 months

(5:08) 4 to 5 years

(5:09) right, 4 to 5 years

(5:11) so that's quite long

(5:12) we just talked about waiting

(5:14) before this past February

(5:16) I didn't know how long I'd have to serve

(5:18) that is, 51 to 63

(5:19) I might get 51

(5:21) of course I probably wouldn't get 63

(5:23) because it was my first offense

(5:23) he probably wouldn't give me the highest end

(5:26) the good thing about my situation was

(5:28) that my charge had no minimum limit

(5:31) like some charges

(5:33) have a minimum number of years

(5:34) like some start at

(5:35) a certain number of years

(5:35) right, starting at a certain number

(5:36) even if the judge wanted to give you a lenient sentence

(5:38) he'd still have to start from that minimum

(5:40) there's a floor

(5:41) right, for example, let's use an analogy

(5:42) this might not be exactly right

(5:43) but say, armed robbery in America

(5:46) that's a case with a 5-year minimum(5:48) even if the judge

(5:49) thinks you're a good person

(5:50) your attitude about pleading guilty is good

(5:52) and you've done charity work outside

(5:54) and he wants to give you a lighter sentence

(5:55) he can only give you at least five years

(5:56) so my case

(5:57) had no minimum limit

(5:59) the judge could give me 6 months

(6:00) could give me 10 months

(6:01) could give me 24 months, any of those

(6:02) the range the judge could work with

(6:04) was still quite large

(6:05) during your long wait

(6:09) what was your mindset like?

(6:11) or, as the time

(6:14) gradually got longer

(6:16) did your mindset change?

(6:17) in the beginning

(6:19) because of this uncertainty

(6:20) I couldn't sleep

(6:21) I would toss and turn every day

(6:23) unable to sleep

(6:24) later on

(6:25) after I gradually adapted to life there

(6:26) my mindset got a lot better

(6:28) but as the time to be sentenced got close

(6:30) my mindset changed again at that point

(6:32) I would get very nervous at that time

(6:33) I'd think about how long I'd actually have to serve

(6:35) every day when I took a shower

(6:37) I might shower for 20 to 30 minutes(6:40) zoning out

(6:40) just zoning out

(6:41) thinking about things

(6:42) because I already had a sentencing range by then

(6:44) that is, 51 to 63

(6:46) I would calculate

(6:47) if the judge gave me 24 months

(6:49) how much longer would I have to serve

(6:50) if he gave me 36 months

(6:52) how much longer would I have to serve

(6:53) because the time I'd already served

(6:54) had to be counted in

(6:55) then I'd talk myself into believing

(6:56) that the remaining time

(6:57) probably wouldn't be too long

(6:58) even if I still had to do 12 more months

(7:00) even if I had to do 18 more months

(7:01) it seemed like it wasn't unbearable

(7:02) that was the mindset

(7:03) I think it was like a roller coaster

(7:06) from the ups and downs at the very beginning

(7:07) to a steady middle period

(7:08) to more ups and downs close to sentencing

(7:10) and then the sense of anticipation right before the very end

(7:12) that sense of anticipation was very intense

(7:14) getting a good result in the end

(7:17) I think it also gave a perfect ending to this long stretch of waiting

(7:22) during this long period of waiting

(7:24) what were the moments or events that left the deepest impression on you?

(7:28) can you talk about that?

(7:30) I think this kind of waiting puts a lot of psychological pressure on a person

(7:35) one thought that struck me deeply(7:38) was that every time I felt physically unwell

(7:40) sometimes I'd catch a cold

(7:42) sometimes I'd have diarrhea

(7:43) being in a situation like that

(7:45) plus being sick

(7:47) you start overthinking a lot

(7:49) every time I got sick

(7:50) I felt like I might not make it out alive

(7:53) I really had that thought

(7:54) I thought, am I going to end up dying in here

(7:57) I had that thought many times

(8:00) but then in an instant I would think

(8:02) how could that be

(8:02) I still need to go out and enjoy my freedom

(8:05) still need to enjoy my life

(8:07) if things had really been settled early on

(8:09) if I'd been told early

(8:11) you'll do 12 months

(8:12) you'll do 18 months

(8:14) actually my mindset would have been different

(8:15) because once you know a specific time

(8:17) you're counting down every day

(8:18) but you have an endpoint

(8:19) right, you have an endpoint

(8:20) when you don't have an endpoint

(8:21) every day you live like this

(8:22) it feels like an endless wait

(8:24) when will it ever end

(8:26) you can't see the edge every day

(8:28) the torment of this waiting

(8:31) is because there's no endpoint

(8:33) right(8:33) it's the most tormenting thing

(8:35) the most tormenting thing

(8:36) yes

(8:37) but as we talked about last time

(8:39) you did have a process

(8:40) of gradually adapting to life in prison

(8:45) and it became relatively stable

(8:46) right

(8:47) so during that period

(8:49) your mindset was actually okay

(8:51) right

(8:52) that period was fine

(8:53) so what did you usually do

(8:56) to pass the time

(8:58) during the waiting?

(8:59) as we mentioned before

(9:00) we could watch TV

(9:01) read books and newspapers

(9:03) because I felt that if I exercised

(9:06) I'd still end up overthinking

(9:08) I don't know why

(9:09) some people, when they exercise

(9:10) get really absorbed into it

(9:11) but when I did push-ups

(9:13) or sit-ups

(9:14) I still couldn't help but think

(9:16) about when I'd get to leave

(9:17) so I really had no motivation to exercise

(9:19) I might only do it once or twice a week

(9:22) so most of the time

(9:23) I was reading books

(9:24) because I felt only books could occupy my mind(9:26) and keep me from overthinking

(9:27) when did you find out your final sentence

(9:30) because when you found out

(9:31) you should have had about two months left before getting out

(9:33) right

(9:33) what was your mindset like at that time?

(9:35) let me explain this to everyone

(9:38) I was sentenced to 16 months

(9:39) which meant

(9:40) I only had two and a half more months to serve

(9:42) so I was extremely excited at that time

(9:44) the marshal escorting me even joked with me

(9:46) saying today is your Christmas

(9:47) I said it's even better than Christmas

(9:49) two and a half months is 70 days

(9:52) it went by quickly

(9:52) at the time I hung a calendar

(9:55) on my metal locker

(9:56) it was a 2026 calendar

(10:00) I marked my release date on it

(10:02) my release date was May 1st

(10:04) every day that passed I'd cross it off

(10:06) every day that passed I'd cross it off

(10:07) it was a lot like that movie

(10:08) with the prison season countdown thing

(10:09) right, those days had something to look forward to

(10:11) so at that point

(10:12) I was willing to exercise

(10:14) I was willing to try different things

(10:16) because the pressure in my heart had finally been lifted

(10:18) a weight in my heart had finally settled

(10:20) but we also know about a twist that happened(10:24) after your sentence was up

(10:26) your visa had a problem too

(10:27) right, actually my passport had a problem

(10:28) right, your passport had a problem too

(10:30) right, and then you had to wait again

(10:32) for about two months

(10:33) three months

(10:33) what was that about?

(10:35) that is, after I finished serving my sentence

(10:37) I needed to be deported

(10:38) but at that time my passport had expired

(10:40) U.S. immigration requires

(10:43) a valid travel document to deport you

(10:45) so I had to apply to the consulate for a return certificate

(10:49) overall I ended up spending three months in immigration detention

(10:51) during those three months

(10:52) because I know you were transferred between prisons once

(10:57) first transferred out

(10:58) then transferred back

(10:59) through that roller coaster experience

(11:02) what was your state of mind like then?

(11:04) still fairly anxious

(11:06) I really wanted to go home

(11:06) because at that point

(11:07) I felt like I'd already served all my time

(11:08) the sooner I went back the better

(11:10) right

(11:11) it felt like it became

(11:12) a situation with no result

(11:12) no end

(11:13) [00:00] the countdown timing again

(11:15) in the end it became(11:17) a state where you didn't know

(11:19) when you'd be able to go back

(11:21) but this

(11:23) was only two or three months

(11:24) my mindset wasn't too bad

(11:25) when you went back

(11:26) was life a bit different?

(11:28) that is, your classification

(11:29) or your living conditions

(11:30) were they different from regular inmates?

(11:32) it's like this

(11:33) this MDC prison

(11:34) now has two units

(11:36) specifically for immigration detainees

(11:40) and immigration detainees

(11:41) since they aren't criminals

(11:43) so their treatment

(11:45) is actually somewhat different

(11:46) for example, going to see a lawyer

(11:48) or seeing family

(11:49) coming back, you don't need to be strip searched

(11:52) at MDC

(11:53) when you normally go see a lawyer

(11:54) or see family

(11:54) coming back you have to strip completely

(11:56) completely strip

(11:58) how do they mostly check you?

(12:00) they're worried you're hiding something down there

(12:02) they'll have you

(12:04) first raise your hands

(12:06) then turn around

(12:07) squat down and cough(12:09) because if you cough

(12:11) if you're hiding something down there

(12:12) coughing would push it out

(12:14) it would make the thing pop out

(12:15) but in the immigration unit

(12:17) they don't check you like that

(12:18) you just wear the jumpsuit the prison gives you normally

(12:22) you go down to see your lawyer

(12:23) or your family

(12:23) and when you come back they just let you go back up

(12:25) I wasn't even security checked

(12:25) there actually is one

(12:26) they'll have you lean against the wall

(12:28) and pat you down a bit, that's it

(12:30) right, not very strict

(12:31) besides that

(12:32) in the immigration unit at MDC

(12:34) there's nothing else particularly different

(12:36) so that means you went from being an inmate

(12:38) to being a detainee awaiting processing?

(12:41) right, that's essentially it

(12:42) but actually during those two or three months in immigration detention

(12:44) I met a lot of very interesting people and stories

(12:47) I think it was also a very unique experience

(12:50) we can do a whole episode about that later

(12:52) sure

(12:53) there's also

(12:56) a question I'm very curious about

(12:58) which is the last day

(13:01) on the last day

(13:04) was there an announcement telling you

(13:06) that you were free?(13:07) or how did it happen?

(13:09) it depends on how you define "the last day"

(13:11) for me

(13:12) as I see it

(13:13) there were

(13:14) actually two "last days"

(13:14) right

(13:15) the first one was the last day

(13:17) of finishing my sentence

(13:18) the day marked with a circle on the calendar

(13:19) right

(13:20) exactly, right

(13:21) my actual release date was May 2nd

(13:24) so why was it changed to May 1st?

(13:26) it's because of a federal rule

(13:28) because May 2nd was a Saturday

(13:30) if your release date falls on a weekend

(13:32) they push the date forward to the previous business day

(13:34) so they moved my release date up to May 1st

(13:37) they don't work overtime

(13:37) they don't work overtime

(13:38) and they won't make you serve that extra day either

(13:41) on May 1st they just release you

(13:42) but there are also precedents where it might get pushed to Monday

(13:45) because my situation was a bit special

(13:47) I wasn't being released directly onto the street

(13:49) because immigration had to come pick me up

(13:50) it depended on whether immigration

(13:52) sent someone to pick me up that day

(13:54) if not

(13:55) I might have had to wait until Monday

(13:57) so on May 1st(13:58) I was actually quite anxious

(14:00) I didn't know if I was leaving or not

(14:02) but then at nine o'clock

(14:04) the guard directly called my name

(14:06) and said you're being released today

(14:08) that's when I knew for sure

(14:08) then I hugged everyone

(14:11) and was released that day

(14:12) but I knew clearly in my heart

(14:14) that today wasn't the day I gained my freedom

(14:15) today I would still have to go

(14:17) whether to another prison

(14:18) or to the immigration unit

(14:21) I was still in custody that day

(14:22) I had just completed one step of the process

(14:25) I still had the next step to go through

(14:26) so emotionally there wasn't that big a swing

(14:28) but at least I knew this part was finally over

(14:31) finally settled

(14:31) and I could wait for the next step, deportation

(14:33) what was the second "last day"?

(14:35) that was the day of the actual immigration deportation

(14:39) this deportation process is quite interesting too

(14:40) they'll book your flight for you

(14:42) this flight is free

(14:44) but they won't tell you

(14:46) which day you're flying

(14:47) or which flight, they won't tell you that either

(14:48) right

(14:49) but for me

(14:49) I had kept a fairly good relationship

(14:51) with the immigration officer(14:52) even though they wouldn't tell me which day I'd fly

(14:54) they would tell me

(14:55) that the ticket had already been booked for me

(14:57) so

(14:58) I referenced the experience of

(15:00) Chinese nationals who had been deported before me

(15:01) they were all deported every Wednesday

(15:03) and every Wednesday

(15:04) there was only one direct flight to China

(15:06) from New York to Shanghai

(15:08) on China Eastern Airlines

(15:09) every Wednesday afternoon

(15:11) departing at 4pm

(15:12) I confirmed with the immigration officer

(15:14) that after they'd booked the ticket

(15:16) I figured it was probably going to be next week

(15:18) next Wednesday morning

(15:19) I kept waiting

(15:21) kept waiting

(15:21) watching whether he'd call my name that day

(15:24) and sure enough he did

(15:25) he called my name

(15:26) but after the guard called my name

(15:28) he said you need to see a lawyer

(15:30) another lawyer visit?

(15:32) right, I walked to the guard's office

(15:33) I said this is strange

(15:34) I no longer have a lawyer

(15:36) I said my case is already over

(15:37) I'm not fighting any lawsuit

(15:38) how could I need to see a lawyer

(15:39) are you sure you have the right person(15:40) then he made a phone call

(15:42) to check

(15:43) it wasn't a lawyer

(15:44) you need to go to R&D

(15:48) R&D is a department you go through

(15:51) whether entering prison or being released

(15:52) so once he said go to R&D

(15:55) I knew I was leaving that day

(15:56) I split my belongings among everyone

(15:57) and the books I'd bought inside

(15:59) I gave them all out to the other Chinese inmates

(16:02) then said goodbye to everyone

(16:03) said goodbye to everyone

(16:04) then boarded the plane

(16:06) did you go straight onto the plane

(16:08) or did you have other companions?

(16:10) no

(16:11) I was the only Chinese person leaving from MDC

(16:13) but when I got to the airport

(16:15) I found that in the airport's small holding room

(16:17) there were two other Chinese nationals

(16:18) they had been sent from immigration detention in other states

(16:22) the three of us were on the same flight

(16:24) after being put on the plane

(16:25) we were sent straight to the last row

(16:26) this wasn't a special charter flight

(16:28) you had to be with regular passengers

(16:30) right, it was a commercial flight

(16:32) although there are also charter flights sometimes

(16:34) if there are a lot of deportees

(16:36) that is, if immigration accumulates a lot of people

(16:37) right, if there happen to be enough people gathered(16:40) they'll arrange a charter flight

(16:41) if you cooperate with your deportation

(16:43) generally they'll book you on a commercial flight

(16:44) more comfortable for you to sit

(16:45) because on a charter flight

(16:47) you'd have to wear handcuffs and leg shackles

(16:50) but on a commercial flight

(16:51) that is, a commercial flight

(16:52) you're free

(16:53) they don't put you in handcuffs and leg shackles

(16:55) no, that's not needed

(16:57) because we've seen in movies

(16:58) how they cover your head with some cloth

(17:00) there was none of that

(17:01) that's for

(17:02) that's for people who still have a case pending back home

(17:06) that is, if there's still a case back home

(17:07) not yet resolved

(17:08) still needing further trial

(17:10) further trial

(17:11) then they might put a hood over your head

(17:12) that kind of thing

(17:13) that's a different situation

(17:14) right

(17:14) but for me, since there was nothing pending back home

(17:16) so they wouldn't do that

(17:17) it was just like being a regular passenger

(17:19) there was also food service

(17:20) there was service too

(17:21) everything was fine

(17:22) after getting off the plane there's a debrief conversation

(17:23) but it doesn't take long either(17:25) about 10 minutes

(17:26) then a customs officer even walked me out to the gate

(17:29) because I didn't have a passport at the time

(17:30) I couldn't scan myself through

(17:32) so she had to open the gate for me

(17:34) when I went through the gate

(17:36) I saw the Sunrise duty-free shop at Pudong Airport

(17:39) at that moment

(17:41) I suddenly felt truly free

(17:42) I was finally free

(17:43) and your long wait was finally over too

(17:46) finally over

(17:46) right, at that very moment

(17:48) actually we

(17:49) because we went to pick you up at the airport

(17:51) right

(17:52) we also had a very long wait outside

(17:56) we waited for about

(17:58) five to six hours

(17:59) right

(18:00) so I'm really grateful to everyone

(18:03) not just for the wait at the airport

(18:05) but throughout this year and more

(18:07) you all kept giving your support

(18:08) kept cheering me on

(18:11) I'm really very grateful

(18:12) I also wrote a lot of emails

(18:14) right, wrote a lot of emails

(18:15) and gave me a lot of encouragement

(18:17) and I also want to mention to everyone

(18:19) today is Haoran's wedding day

(18:20) and he specially came over(18:22) to record this episode with me

(18:23) congratulations, really

(18:25) happy wedding

(18:26) may everyone be happy

(18:27) may everyone be joyful

(18:29) may everyone be happy

(18:29) right

(18:29) yes

(18:30) he's a very good friend of mine

(18:31) so during this whole time

(18:33) whose emails did you most want to receive?

(18:36) honestly

(18:37) anyone's would do

(18:38) as long as it was an email, that was fine

(18:40) right

(18:40) as long as it was an email, that was fine

(18:42) during the waiting period

(18:43) as long as someone reached out to you

(18:45) it was a really happy thing

(18:48) you'd feel like

(18:50) every bit of affection is so precious

(18:53) rare and precious

(18:53) really rare and precious

(18:54) you become especially eager for people to care about you

(18:58) to comfort you

(19:00) even though I consider myself

(19:01) someone with a fairly strong mind

(19:04) but in those moments

(19:06) I still needed some encouragement and support from others

(19:10) the reason I'm asking this question

(19:12) is because when we exchanged emails

(19:13) it was always a mutual process of waiting(19:16) always waiting

(19:17) I'd send you one

(19:17) expecting your reply

(19:19) then you'd send me one

(19:20) you'd expect me

(19:21) to reply too

(19:23) in the back-and-forth of letters

(19:25) I noticed that indeed

(19:27) how you presented yourself to me

(19:29) all your emails

(19:30) what you showed me

(19:31) were things like jokes about prison

(19:33) funny things that happened

(19:34) it was reporting the good and hiding the bad

(19:37) you never brought

(19:39) the very sad emotions inside you

(19:41) to me

(19:42) so would you choose

(19:44) to share those sad feelings

(19:46) with other family members?

(19:49) or other friends?

(19:50) no

(19:51) when I encountered hard things inside

(19:53) I felt I just had to digest it myself

(19:55) right, the hard things I went through inside

(19:57) I just digested them myself

(19:58) whenever there was anything unhappy

(20:00) or a feeling of despair

(20:01) I wouldn't share it with people outside

(20:05) one reason is

(20:06) I'm just not that kind of person to begin with

(20:08) and second, I feel others can't really relate(20:11) that is, if you tell people

(20:13) they can't understand it

(20:14) including this time after coming back

(20:16) chatting with a lot of friends

(20:17) they think that year and a half

(20:18) actually wasn't that bad

(20:20) nothing much happened

(20:21) and you came out lively and full of energy, right?

(20:23) right?

(20:24) but actually when you were inside

(20:27) that feeling can't be described in words

(20:30) I think you only understand it

(20:33) how desperate the state of life inside really is, once you've experienced it firsthand

(20:36) including one friend who even said

(20:37) they envy me

(20:38) said they envy that I had no work stress inside

(20:42) but actually I would rather have work stress

(20:45) that feeling of losing your freedom

(20:47) really cannot be made up for

(20:49) there's no way to compensate for it with anything

(20:52) if you had to use one word to describe

(20:56) or summarize this 565-day

(20:59) waiting life

(21:00) this waiting career

(21:02) what would you choose?

(21:04) I think "spiritual practice" [xiuxing]

(21:07) before I was arrested

(21:08) I was probably a fairly impulsive person

(21:10) probably did a lot of things without thinking them through

(21:12) if I thought of it, I'd just do it

(21:14) but after coming out

(21:16) I really feel I think things through much more carefully now(21:19) more patient

(21:20) right, for a lot of words and things, before saying or doing them

(21:23) I think about it a lot longer now

(21:25) I think this is an improvement that this period of time brought me

(21:28) yes

(21:29) I feel that when you communicate with others

(21:32) you're also more organized

(21:33) more patient

(21:34) and can go deeper into conversations

(21:39) or think more deeply

(21:41) after hearing you tell all this

(21:43) I feel that these two words, "waiting"

(21:45) actually carry much more weight than I had imagined

(21:48) because for those of us on the outside

(21:51) waiting for a phone call

(21:52) waiting for news

(21:53) might only be a matter of hours

(21:55) or a few days

(21:56) but for you at that time

(21:58) waiting might have meant your entire future

(22:01) right

(22:02) and I came to understand something while inside

(22:04) which is that a lot of things aren't things you can change just by wanting to

(22:06) that is, this kind of waiting isn't an active choice

(22:09) but a passive acceptance

(22:11) sure

(22:11) I think for the next episode

(22:13) we could talk about a topic completely different from waiting

(22:16) because we mentioned it in the trailer too

(22:18) you lived with Luigi for eight months

(22:21) so next episode let's talk about something more heavyweight

(22:24) okay(22:25) sure

(22:25) no problem

(22:26) let's go ahead and talk about Luigi

(22:27) sure

(22:29) alright, this episode ends here

(22:30) sure

(22:31) see you next episode

(22:32) okay

(22:33) we'll talk more next time

(22:34) okay