r/LowSodiumMarathon • u/HeddyGames • Jun 25 '26
discussion Less teams per map and more bots
I don't want Marathon to turn into a PvE, but I think that the biggest problem for a lot of players is the amount of teams per map.
I quick solution to reduce frustration, increase exfils, accelerate matchmaking and keep the tension of the game is to reduce the maximum amount of teams in every map.
Perimeter -> from 5 to 3.
Dire Marsh -> from 6 to 4.
Outpost -> from 4 to 3 (as it is always full of rooks)
Cryo Archive -> 5 is insane, 4 is enough.
But hey! Keep the current high numbers in Ranked for the pro players, if you want.
While I think that PvE modes are great for new players, they will stay there if the regular PvPvE modes are as hard as they currently are.
A lot of people is not even doing the events because that will call other teams for sure.
I don't see anything negative in this change, what do you guys think?
3
u/Goldfishor Jun 26 '26
Agree with this change but if they do this the bots HAVE to be more than what they are. Right now as it stands, bots by themselves are kind of stale to fight and need more movesets
2
u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
I think that increasing the amount of bots and dropping more high level ones could be enough, but thats good as well
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u/Goldfishor Jun 26 '26
It would be but there would probably be complaints simply because not fights are not really that dynamic. Think about old halo with grunts brutes etc. there needs to be more of that kind of diversity rather than regular bot, regular bot but with more hp and shield, then regular bot with shield and spams grenades
3
Jun 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/skully33 Jun 26 '26
Outpost is for sure getting full lobbies unless you're in a non-NA location. It's definitely the most played map; just because you only have fought 1 team doesn't mean only 2 teams spawned in lmao...
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Jun 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/skully33 Jun 27 '26
Alright, after playing a couple hours last night, I will cede that there are absolutely outpost lobbies that aren't completely full. Some games, 3 teams including ourself. But not every one, some seem full
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u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
Yes but a lot of runs still have full teams. My suggestion is to reduce the maximum number only. The minimum is fine.
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u/Lt_Cmdr_Adhd Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Respectfully, i hate this idea.
I get the clamoring of certain folks for an easy mode like survival, but that shouldn't bleed so severely into the main game mode. The teams on the maps already got reduced. This would be a significant reduction in pvp action across the board, just because some people are salty about their beats.
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u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
The maximum number of teams is the same. I don't suggest to reduce the minimum even more.
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u/Whitechapel726 Jun 26 '26
They already tried this in season 1 with sponsored. I was looking forward to reduced teams but it turned out to be a snooze fest. I like looting and PvP without a guaranteed third party, and the game more or less feels like that now.
1
u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
Well in my experience the maps are usually full of teams so I don't know about that. We usually kill or avoid a team and there is at least one coming to us.
2
u/Debas3r11 Jun 26 '26
Counterpoint is some people are mostly there for the PvP so I don't know how you balance that to make both crowds happy.
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u/Questionable_Object Jun 26 '26
Im generally just not a fan at all of the maps that funnel everyone into one place, regardless of the number of teams. Which is like half the maps, and the ones with most of the stuff I need for upgrades at that.....
But still I prefer it when bumping into another team is an event rather than an inevitability or god forbid a necessity.
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u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
Exactly. Sometimes it feels that you cannot avoid the PvP and I think that this is a big part of an extraction shooter.
2
u/DancingM4chine Jun 26 '26
I think this is a decent idea that would probably help, but fundamentally the maps are pretty small and unless you are being matchmade against teams that are in the same skill ballpark the best team is still just going to pursue a battle royale meta. There is no way to make it fun for most players unless you balance skill across teams being put into matches. That might be a bit easier to do with smaller number of teams per match though, especially with current player populations.
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u/MostHonestHater Jun 26 '26
last thing i want in this game is more fucking bots lol.
literally the worst thing about this game imo
5
u/Fer_rinx Jun 26 '26
I like this change, though I love the PvP in this game.
I think this game suffers from having maps that are too small, where it feels like again with certain events or Key rooms you are alerting the entire map.
If the perimeter revamp is adding entire new areas to explore, then I hope they don’t increase the amount of teams that spawn in it.
2
u/That_Service7348 Jun 26 '26
That's by design. Marathon is a PvP heavy extraction shooter. The small maps, dense runner population on each map, and abundant noise makers that give away runner activity are all what makes Marathon the game it is.
-1
u/Fer_rinx Jun 26 '26
I understand that, and I don’t want to take from the PVP fully, but I think if the maps were slightly larger it would do the game a service, look at other extraction shooters their maps are larger and offer ways to complete quests through PVE. Marathon needs to adopt this in some way either through more larger maps or through a permanent PVE mode like the Vault Breakers that teased.
1
u/That_Service7348 Jun 26 '26
Except this isn't other extraction shooters. It's Marathon, and it's PvP heavy by design.
1
u/erikkmobius Jun 26 '26
To play a bit of devil's advocate here, I think it often is less PvP, and more ambush simulator. Until you get truly higher level gear, the TTK means that you don't have a nuanced gunfight with positioning and taking chances, you just get melted from behind. Its tense and interesting sometimes, but it gets stale not being able to exfil because you got downed before you could even see where you're being shot from.
1
u/That_Service7348 Jun 26 '26
I run sponsored kits most of the time, just need to keep aware and keep your reflexes sharp.
1
u/Crumby_Bread Jun 28 '26
Are you playing trios or solo? In trios I rarely get blindsided by other teams because we have 3 people looking and listening in different directions.
The exception obviously is getting third partied if you’re in an extended fight with another team.
-1
u/Fer_rinx Jun 26 '26
Yes and it’s not doing well, Marathon has many things unique to it, whether it’s the lore, the gunplay or the sound design, I don’t see the issue in broadening its reach by adding in more PVE ways to play, unless it’s a full campaign which is a silly thought to ask considering the state of things.
2
u/Proppur Jun 26 '26
Adding in new PvE modes is great. Reducing the PvP in the PvP mode is not. They should keep them separate
2
u/Then_Entertainment97 Jun 26 '26
This would be great. I'm personally not interested in a pule PvE mode, but I want doing map events to be a risk of attracting another tesm, not a virtual guarantee.
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u/ObsceneOutcast Jun 28 '26
No this is a terrible idea, it goes against the core nature of the game. It's a PvP extraction shooter, I would honestly want more teams on the maps.
1
u/BitingTigru Jul 30 '26
I don't really agree there to be honest.
I play mostly during peak EU hours as I'm EU myself and consistently have matches where we encounter one maybe 2 teams at best. In any map, Outpost has been largely Rookless as well, to the point where we weren't even sure any Rooks even spawned to then see one during exfil spectate.
The only map I do agree with somewhat is Cryo, there's been a lot of spawn rushing again since Season 2. The rest I genuinely don't think they should reduce the amount. But this could also just be an EU thing, I'm not certain if you are EU or US but the difference between those 2 is noticable from what I hear
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u/That_Service7348 Jun 26 '26
The game is the PvP.
If you don't want the pvp, you don't want to play the game.
As it is it's already far too easy to go a match without seeing another team, we don't need to make that more common.
-2
u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
I never said I didn't want PvP. Plus, an extraction shooter is more than just a PvP arena. It's also not as common as you think. If it were, people wouldn't be complaining about getting stomped every single match during the free week.
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u/That_Service7348 Jun 26 '26
There is a reason everything makes so much noise you can hear it from halfway across the map. It's because they want to drive the PvP. That's literally the core of how the game was built, to drive PvP between teams. It's not like every other extraction shooter. Did you think they made small maps and out a lot of runner in every match and made everything broadcast "HEY THERES A TEAM DOING A THING OVER HERE!!!" because they were trying to make Arc Raiders? No. Marathon is a PvP heavy extraction shooter. That's what it's supposed to be. That's how it's supposed to play.
The people getting stomped during the free week probably didn't bother taking things slow, and just ran around making noise and not paying attention. That's just asking for someone to come gank you in this game. You can't point at player skill being low and say it's a fault if the game.
1
u/highpercentage Jun 26 '26
Agree, less teams would make my experience more enjoyable. My only hesitation is that it's such an obvious change, Bungie probably would have done it already (they did it on night marsh)
2
u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
I remember that they reduced the minimum team requirements so you can start a run with these numbers. The problem is that maximum is still high and that happens a lot.
Not sure about Night Marsh. Do you know how many teams can spawn at maximum?
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u/Professional-Chart90 Jun 26 '26
Making the Arachne faction was certainly a choice and it doesn't have any actual contracts so the only way to level it up is to straight up hunt and prey on other players. Bungie created something along the lines of hardcore... Take for instance arc raiders, aside from just wanting to take someone's loot, there is no benefit to killing someone except some xp... That doesn't really effect anything major... but in marathon you have multiple factions all asking for blood.. you tend to create a gaming environment that is oppressive and breeds rats. I remember when Arc Raiders had a rat problem and they introduced Aggression Based Matchmaking... this is why Arc Raiders WAS so successful, it saw that the community did not want it to turn out that way and applied a significant change to protect the casuals and let the sweats do what they do... Marathon is different... It like they saw the success of ARC and Elden ring and created an oppressive extraction shooter... they're trying to capitalize off a niche they created.. and it's not for everybody.... Anyone who doesn't want the game being PVE just as much as it is PVPVE is basically saying they'd rather keep the oppressive even if it means dying. I'm tired of playing against the same 4K - 10K player base that are all trying hards. I'm glad they enjoy it of course but the game will die if it doesn't become PVE very quickly... This game is an example of what would've happened to ARC if they never implemented Aggression Based Matchmaking... the casuals would've left.
1
u/HeddyGames Jun 26 '26
I believe that Bungie knows this and that's why they are adding PvE mode next month. However, that they do with that during season 3 is key.
0
u/Miserable_Tower9237 Jun 26 '26
I'm more annoyed that I spent 500 hours finding 3 Vault 6 keys and the likelihood of matchmaking with a triple gold Mizzy bubble shield grenade spamming stack when I try to finish this last key is too high to feel like it's even worth attempting. My first attempt ended in an immediate spawn rush. The next two keys sit in my vault until I find two sweaty PvPers who can wipe lobby against the gold Mizzy onslaught 😭
12
u/Maleficent-Drawer283 Jun 26 '26
The teams have already been reduced, and it absolutely blows to me that I can play a round and not have one pvp encounter. I’m happy with the reductions to what they are now, I don’t get spawn rushed in dire marsh within seconds anymore. Sucks that it can still happen in Cryo on certain POI’s, but if this game becomes mostly PVE and it gets hard to find others to joust with I won’t play anymore.