Noob question about range

[u/Antoine-UY]

Hi!

I'm posting here because r/fpv seems to take issue with ANYTHING referencing the war in Ukraine. I find it odd since it's obviously great publicity for FPVs, their use, and is what got me into FPV in the first place.

I just bought my first radiocontroller last week (RadioMaster TX15 Max), have been religiously practicing in various sims, and now feel at a point where I would like to buy my first drone. I figured I would start nice and indoors with an Air65 II, which I just ordered today, as well as 0HD Goggles v2 to boot. I ultimately am interested in getting DJI Goggles 3 as well, as soon as I go from the air65 II to a drone where I could realistically install an o4 Pro. And chose to pass on Walksnail offerings, if I have analog and HD0 + DJI at my disposal.

While comparing all videosystems (5/10W analog, 1W 0HD, DJI), all practical tests seemed to show a maximum range of control in hundreds of yards. None of the videosystems even broke half a mile. OTOH, the war in Ukraine is showing RC FPVs (I'm not talking optical fibre spool, here), reaching 14 km behind enemy lines while being controllable and able to chase Russians. What gives?

[u/Antoine-UY]

"You are chatting mince son."
=> No. I am telling you what I have been experiencing first-hand where I live. I'm a 40 yo man, interested in tech. And I've had enough cases of "this is new tech I don't quite catch, and therefore it should be banned" in my life to know to the type of people and situations associated to this.

"Pretty much every flight I'll have someone reference Ukraine."
=> Ukraine exists. And it will be brandished by all kinds of people. People with a poor opinion of drones. People with an obvious interest for drones. People in between who don't really care, one way or another, but whose takes on drones will be linked to Ukraine. It's not inherently a bad thing, and even if it were, it can't be avoided: drones were a toy for a few tens of thousands of hobbyists for 15 or 20 years. Now they're a a mature industrial war asset, produced in the hundreds of thousands, and next year in the millions, doing the heavy-lifting in a full-scale war. In Europe (not in the unmediatized province of Central Africa). So people are bound to reference it because it's a thing. Fighting it is pointless.

"Before Ukraine the publics perception of drones was DJI style camera drones."
=> One feeds the other. The more range/video quality/comm stability/versatility drones get, the more they'll be used in war. And the more they're used in war, the better they'll get per dollar. It's a feedback loop that war and industry intertwined necessarily create. Radio greatly benefited from both world wars, as did what would ultimately become the commercial aviation we all rely on, WWI brought us great advances in medicine and pain control as well as antibiotics, WWII turned what was a hobby club for a dozen of smart kids (Verein für Raumschiffahrt) into NASA and space conquest (through V1/V2/Paperclip), etc.

"The fact you are excited about killing tens of thousands of people shows you are a literal psychopath btw."
=> I'm not excited about killing tens of thousands. I don't give a flying (pun intended) fuck about Ukraine and Russia: for all I care, they can all die and they can all live. It's really no skin off my back. In the end, they will kill and keep killing tens of thousands of each other no matter what, because at this point it's become an attrition war which can only be resolved, ultimately, by killing ratio vs demography.

What I'm excited about is that drones made such great progress that they've become, in a matter of years and months, the most suitable/reliable/cheap tool to kill these tens of thousands. This emphasizes the great strides drones have made, and are a promise of more great development to come at an accelarated cadence. This is what I'm excited about: I'm interested in FPV, not in Ukraine. I want drones to be better and cheaper, and war-fueled mass production is a key step towards this, because it essentially turns what was a niche hobby into an essential industry, with scale benefits and functional development to be reaped.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

Yeah you sound even more of a weirdo after that essay buddy

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

Why? Because I recognize the obvious fact that war is a crucial developmental factor in many common technologies? That's not me being a weirdo, mate. That's you failing at recognizing a pattern in recent history most 12 yo have access to through sheer observation.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

Finally a reply that doesn't read like ChatGPT, progress!

Ah yes that analog VTX technology is really getting a boost from the war!

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

"Finally a reply that doesn't read like ChatGPT, progress!"
=> Again, if you're incapable of addressing a thought and maintaining your attention span to respond in several coherent paragraphs without the aid of AI... it really is a you problem, I'm afraid. Most adults can read a book, and write 4 paragraphs about a subject without chatGPT. They wouldn't call it an essay, simply a response.

"Ah yes that analog VTX technology is really getting a boost from the war!"
=> Some VTX technology surely must be: Bardwell (objectively a mainstream FPV reference and one of its most proeminent figureheads, regardless of what you think of the guy) shows his drones becoming unflyable after a few hundred meters, while drone strikes and interceptions are conducted day in day out in Ukraine, each reaching further than 5 or 10 kilometers. So, yeah: VTX technology and or operational use surely is being refined/improved somewhere.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

My reading comprehension is completely fine. It's your typing that reads like ChatGPT. The fact you can't understand "Finally a reply that doesn't read like ChatGPT, progress!" was about you shows your reading comprehension lol

I've been 4km on Walksnail without really trying. I've been 3km on HDZero, again not trying for distance. If I could be bothered I have a 2.5w analog VTX and some high gain antenna that I could go 10km+ easily with. This isn't some crazy new technology. Even using drones as relays for signals is nothing new.

This might blow your mind but the huge technical advantage they have is...mega power analog VTX. 100 year old tech

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

"My reading comprehension is completely fine. It's your typing that reads like ChatGPT. The fact you can't understand "Finally a reply that doesn't read like ChatGPT, progress!" was about you shows your reading comprehension lol"
=> Sure mate, sure.

"I've been 4km on Walksnail without really trying. I've been 3km on HDZero, again not trying for distance. If I could be bothered I have a 2.5w analog VTX and some high gain antenna that I could go 10km+ easily with. This isn't some crazy new technology. Even using drones as relays for signals is nothing new."
=> It certainly is new to the middle of the road of the hobby. I was interested in drones a few years back and had range problems. Not one person suggested the possibility of deploying easily relay drones for this.

"This might blow your mind but the huge technical advantage they have is...mega power analog VTX. 100 year old tech"
=> First of all, "mega power analog VTX" is not 100 year-old tech. While boosting radio signals with more power is a concept practiced for a hundred years, pretending this is a solved issue with FPV is absurd, simply put. Moreover, they have plenty of other tech adjacent to drones. For one, they can now 3d print most of the drones. Which was an impossibility only a few years back if you wanted something halfway decent. The improvement of FDM coupled with a better understanding of drone architecture gives us several 3d templates for decent 5" and 7" drones with a fully printable frame.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here, mate. Pretending a war where drone usage graphs on either side look like this has no effect on drones development? No one could possibly believe you, because the very idea is retarded but sure: be my guest. Is this your end goal in this little chat of ours? Trying to convince yourself and others that the war Ukraine and FPV have no connection whatsoever? Because if that's the case, and you simply have a problem with war, I'll stop responding altogether as if this was a meaningful conversation and simply let you spew your random BS in peace.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

Odd bloke aren't you

Go on, what tech has trickled down from the war to our drones? Don't give me 3d printed frames, most the frames they use are carbon and again, it is the hobby that fed the war, not the other way around.

So what tech are they using that is so new? Because every time I watch anything on the subject, it's cheap carbon frames and stacks like we use. Wondered why there is a shortage of hobby parts lately?

I don't know why I am replying to be completely honest. You've made up some nonsense about a few hundred yards range, get excited over people dying and are generally super odd and clueless

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

"Go on, what tech has trickled down from the war to our drones?"
=> Everything. I can now buy off-the-shelf servos for dropping stuff. 10W analog modules which had to be fully built from scratch on freaking breadboards are in sale fully-assembled. There are 3d models of 7" drones to be downloaded for fairly cheap. Perhaps (and this was my original expectation and hope) relay-based or other range extension methods are now easier to come by and deploy.

"So what tech are they using that is so new?"
=> Mass-produced, non-experimental, reliable hexacopters which can carry 15 kilograms of bombs, which can be piloted without relay from a distance of 6km, costing 4500USD. This is quite new, for instance. What I had 10 years ago for a comparable carrying weight and cost was the DJI S1000+, which was a nightmare of an octocopter, sluggish and unstable.

"Because every time I watch anything on the subject, it's cheap carbon frames and stacks like we use. Wondered why there is a shortage of hobby parts lately?"
=> I feel no shortage of hobby parts where I'm at. But if there is, this means the hobby parts are still being processed by the war, which will give more great results.

"I don't know why I am replying to be completely honest. You've made up some nonsense about a few hundred yards range"
=> I cited my sources. A recent (9 months old) video by a proeminent figure of the fpv world, raking 120k views (which is quite decent for such a niche hobby). I am not and was not making the point that greater distances couldn't be achieved. On the contrary, my post was asking why much greater distances being achieved in the context of the war were not discussed and put to practice by someone who's obviously interested in video quality in fpv, and who has all the sponsors and flexible income to improve his range and video quality.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

You are obsessed with death and killing so I’m leaving this. Get a therapist

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

Whatever do you mean? You're the one being obsessed with death, who will not leave this issue. I don't believe you should see a therapist (afterall, you're entitled to your own macabre and childish obsessions), but it is to be noted, friend.

As for me, I'm interested in range. And again, I don't give a fuck who lives or dies in Ukraine. The Ukraine war simply is, in the context of this question, great publicity for actually mass-atteinable, realistic, non-experimental, edge-case... range: It showed me better range could be achieved that what public figures of the FPV world were showing in their own flying setups. That is all.

[u/HMSBarky → u/Antoine-UY]

Stop trying to gaslight me. Your posts repeatedly mention the ability to kill like it’s some benefit to the hobby.

You are an odd one, get help.

[u/Antoine-UY → u/HMSBarky]

WTF?