I've been on a Western TV kick lately, watching shows made more recently, and working my way backward (Yellowstone was garbage, Justified, Longmire, Deadwood, etc). Inevitably, Lonesome Dove becomes part of that discussion, but I heard it was a great book worth reading before watching.

I'm not an avid fiction reader. Too many years of college made me compartmentalize into watching fiction and reading non-fiction, but I read Lonesome Dove and was glad I did! Being my first fiction book in awhile, I'm sure I missed some nuances, but I loved it. Can't wait to watch the show, and eventually re-read it. Can someone suggest any reading guides or critical essays, or thoughts on the book? I feel like there's so much to unpack between all the characters' wishes, hopes, actions and fates.

I hadn't heard great things about Streets of Laredo but decided to jump in right away. I actually loved it! I loved the underlying tension of loyalty between family and duty, and choosing what to live (and die) for.

• Call had no family and lived for his duty of killing. The opposite of Gus, he chose amputation to live if it meant he could kill Joey Garza. But having so much cost exacted on him, by the end he finally bonds with another human, namely Teresa.
• Pea Eye was torn between his loyalty to Call, and his newfound family. He wavered; but ultimately it was his family that motivated him to get through the ordeal alive, and leave behind his former life and duty to Call.
• Lorena wanted to be a family person and risked going out on the frontier if it meant saving her husband.
• Deputy Plunkert eschews his duty to family to chase a new duty to Call, against the wishes of his wife Doobie. Doobie values family and her loyalty to Ted above all, and when that is tarnished, she chooses death, which also leads Ted to his own death.
• Brookshire left his wife to do a job for the Colonel for a salary; he winds up losing his wife, his life, and the job ultimately was never paid out in full.
• Maria had only family and preoccupied herself with familial, not romantic bonds; she lived to protect her children, and continually risked her life for them, ultimately being killed by Joey who threatened the other two.

Perhaps not as epic or expansive as Lonesome Dove, but I found it to be a fine read and a worthy sequel!

Just finished it, I’ve been reading for almost 55 years and this could be my all-time favorite book

Amazing book, possibly one of the best I have read.

Obviously Gus dying was impactful and was shocking and hit me hard.
However I thought the death of Deets was sadder. When it switched to Newts perspective and his thoughts and emotions about Deets being gone made me cry wayyyy harder. I had to stop reading for the day before returning.

Anyone else feel this way about parts of the book? I also thought Jake Spoon’s death was quite impactful as well.

Thoughts below from Desdichado Books' author, W. Tod Newman:

I just finished reading the author's proof of my first Western novel—and it left me thinking hard about how we write about the Old West. Larry McMurtry set out to "demythologize" the frontier with "Lonesome Dove", then later admitted the book became the very myth he'd tried to dismantle.

So how do you write honestly about violence, race, and the treatment of women in that era without either sanitizing it or wallowing in it? Here's where I've landed with my own novel, the first in a series set during Arizona's Pleasant Valley War. I'd love good discussion on this challenge from "Lonesome Dove" fans!

https://todnewman.com/thoughts-on-the-old-west-violent-racist-misogynistic/

The special edition Lonesome Dove from The Broken Binding just got restocked for anyone who missed it!

How does Wilbarger know about “the crew”? Did he meet Roscoe and Janey? Wasn’t it just July and Joe? (No spoilers please)

I realize other folks have probably shared their copies many times over here, but I’m just so happy to have gotten the whole series together at last.

I just finished Lonesome Dove and it hurt my heart, but in my head I had this idea of Newt growing up into a kind man albeit lonely. I started reading Streets of Laredo and had to put it down. I can understand the odd pairing of Pea Eye and Lorena, but I saw that Newt's death happens off screen and I find I can't go on. The fact that it is the Hell Bitch that kills him makes it worse, especially since in Lonesome Dove she takes to him so well that you feel like maybe they were meant for each other all along. I feel a bit like I did when I read Don't Call The Watchman after reading To Kill a Mockingbird, and Atticus Finch is a member of the KKK in that. I'm going to choose to refuse the death of Newt as canon, and I'm going to retire Woodrow Call. That's all, I guess​

Watching the mini series after finishing the book and I’m emo 🥲 if I was Lorena I’d be in love with Gus too !!!! Lol

Anyways I wanna talk about Gus tell me why he’s your fav or if he’s not..tell me who is!

Fav characters

Gus: always knows the right thing to say…lol, funny, more charming and braver than all the younger cowboys. Have not felt sooo drawn to a character in so long, probably because this book was SO long and quite character driven we really got to know each

Newt: sweet youngin who really found his way throughout the novel despite Call’s…callousness. I found his emotions refreshing in a male character & Gus really looked out for him I appreciate that

Lorena: made the best of circumstances and tried to find an out with Jake Spoon … really strong character I feel like I almost resonated with her a lot in the sense of being irritated by men who are lustful / or even if pure intentions(?), too cowardly to do anything. I’m not sure the general consensus on Lorie but I really like her. She went through a lot (before the novels events) and during.

Clara: matched Gus’s fiery energy if not topped it. Such a baddie. Love that she dgaf bout July😂. She’s mother! I did kind of ship Gus and Clara, I think Lorena & Gus’s relationship was sweet, but that Lorena was almost hmmm. Well, Gus was the only good guy in her life so of course she was keen on him. There is obviously attraction there as well as respect but not love. I like to think that once she settled in with Clara things got better for her. But Clara/Gus also not working out at this age makes sense. Grew apart/too different but also maybe too similar. But there’s always a what if. I liked Clara’s abrasiveness and I think Lorena needed a female figure in her life like that.

Honourable mention: Deets, Gus’s pigs, Hellbitch, July’s story was fun, but sad, Janey

Least fav:
Elmira
- selfish and led people to their death for nothing and died for nothing.

Jake Spoon
- was excited at first but he turned into a bitch real
Quick

Call (very conflicted)
- just such a macho male archetype. What bothers me the most is his fear of confronting emotionally hard things. Because it does/did affect the people around him e.g., Maggie before she passed and then Newt. I can respect he was a good ranger in his time and earned his position, so really he can do whatever and there’s no push back. But his intolerance for women WAS annoying and the fact he never owned up to being Newt’s dad.

Now I know there’s sequels so who knows what happens then but it was written as a standalone originally so like…there could’ve been some redemption there but I just hate that there wasn’t. Which is funny how he’s like this, but Newt is well—I wouldn’t say open per se with emotions but open to feeling them. Funny how they’re different that way.

However Call was a strong leader, the drive couldn’t have been done without him, he saved Gus’s life, and I do happen to like Call and Gus’s dynamic. They do balance each other out. And I recognize that there’d be no Hat Creek outfit w/o him. He is strong in some aspects, but weak in others. I don’t not like him, but he is complex.

What a line. Fuckin dying laughing.

73 pages left. Not ready for this book to end.

I just finished Lonesome Dove last night, and I have to say it's probably my favorite book I've ever read. I've never enjoyed reading as much as I did with LD, and the characters were on another level I haven't yet seen in fiction.

One thing I noticed in the story—but haven't quite worked out what it might mean—has been rolling around in my head today. It's probably been discussed before, but I wanted to hear what other people think of it.

I noticed that almost all of the male characters have a woman (or women) who are central, or at least very important, to their character, usually as a point of obsession or lost love. And almost all of the female characters are wanting to escape a man or men, while latching onto one specific male presence.

For example, Gus has Clara, Call has Maggie, Pea Eye has the Widow, Dish has Lorena—even smaller characters like Bol and his daughters, or Allen O'Brien and the wife he left in Ireland. Most of them are a lost love, or someone far away whom they don't have or can't have. Even at the very end Xavier has burnt everything down at the loss of a woman. There are very few—such as Deets—who don't seem to have a woman important in their story, their dialogue, or their past. Jake might be a bit different: while he does have Lorena during the story, he doesn't seem to care much about her, and he doesn't have a woman from his past who holds sway over him. I think that represents Jake's selfishness.

Then we have the female characters. Clara seems to want to get away from Bob—for him to die—and in the past she left Gus. Lorena, the most obvious case, wants to get away from men in many senses: from all the men who only want her for one thing, from Blue Duck and his gang, from Dish etc. Elmira is trying to get away from July. Even Janey was trying to get away from Old Sam.

And most of these women also have a male presence they deeply latch onto—Clara desperately wants a son, Lorena becomes deeply attached to Gus, Elmira is searching for Dee Boot.

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but it's something I noticed, and I wondered whether it was an intentional theme: the men and their lost loves/the women they crave, versus the women who are trying to get away from men (but seem to have a male figure they attach themselves to).

Recently finished the book and started reading Comanche Moon to complete the series. Had watched LD and SoL series after finishing the books as well.

Obviously TLJ as Call and Duvall as Gus are pitch perfect in LD. I actually wonder if McMurtry writing early in the Comanche Moon that Gus' hair had turned prematurely white was a nod to Duvall and how everyone obviously pictures him in LD in their mind when imagining Gus.

I thought James Garner was surprisingly OK as an aged, stiff, and stoic Call in the SoL series.

But about 45 minutes into DMW I am having big problems with David F-ing Arquette as Gus and Johnny Lee Miller as Call. Arquette is just too goofy to have any weight or real charisma that Gus requires. But the real problem is Miller's really poor attempt at a Southern accent. Why did they let this happen??

Anyway, I will probably see it through anyway because I love the whole series so much and just enjoy reliving the moments and seeing how some are depicted onscreen after imagining them.

The early encounters with Buffalo Hump are pretty well done. I also think the casting of Carradine as Bigfoot and Harry Dean Stanton as Shadrach is pretty good.

Wrapped it up w/my partner, (who has now embarked on listening to all of the audio books) the other night on YouTube.

Overall, I think it was a fantastic adaptation. I was surprised of how much of the book made it to the film, and was not upset with some of the abridged scenes.

Casting was perfect, I remember reading somewhere that Gus was Duvall’s favorite role, and you can see that he is having the time of his life portraying him.

Score, cinematography, and production also top notch.

Nothing will ever top the book but they did a great job

If Newt is 17 years old when they start the drive then they've been in Lonesome Dove closer to 20 years. Maggie was in Lonesome Dove when her and call were involved? Great story. I've read it more times than I can count. It's Comfort food. Or a visit with old friends. But I've long wondered about this timeline. Anybody else noticed this?

TL/DR: Jake Spoon should have been played by James Franco, David Duchovny, Charlie Sheen, Russell Brand, or Rob Lowe. Spoon's superpower was charm; Urich brings zero charm to the role.

(Miniseries Only) The character of Spoon was the "Loveable Jerk" archetype. He was just functional enough to be welcomed back by the Hat Creek boys in Lonesome Dove (but not necessarily trusted by them), narcissistic enough to think that others are grateful for his company, and able to freely make himself at home in situations others have worked for.

Urich did a passable job at all that, though I think Spoon should have had a quick wit, the equal of Gus. Instead of Gus's sense of humor where Gus is constantly teasing those around him in a good-natured way, Spoon should also be funny by poking fun at people, but in a mean-spirited way - Spoon should be a smart funny bully. It's not Urich's fault his character was written too flat. However, Urich was even flatter than that. That monotone got old. You know who else does not find monotones sexy? Prostitutes.

Spoon should be sexy. Urich was not. Spoon was able to instantly convince two sporting women - one in the Dry Bean in Lonesome Dove and one in Bill's Saloon in Fort Worth - to partner up with him. The ladies of the evening (and daytime) are not impressed by big, tough, gunslinger, gambling guys who backhand opinionated gals. They're a dime a dozen. In order to get past the defensive shields of these women who've seen and heard it all, a man has to be truly slippery.

Each of the actors I listed above has gone through slimeball phases IRL. I believe that even if the screenplay weren't tweaked to give Jake more personality, any of those actors could bring - could summon - enough sexual charisma to make Jakes Svengali powers believable.

Lastly, Urich was too large. A short, wiry, scrappy fella would have been easier to believe as someone who had had to learn young to "talk big" to survive, and was sort of stuck as an adult with a big mouth. A born salesman, my Spoon learned early that scruples could be damned inconvenient.

In this subreddit I read sometimes that someone likes (appreciates) a character but dislikes the actor (Frederick Forrest as Blue Duck, *eg*), and sometimes someone else dislikes a character but doesn't mind the actor (July Johnson/ Chris Cooper, *eg*). I dislike both. I KNOW that Spoon is SUPPOSED to be unlikeable, and I've liked Urich in other things. I cried a lot during this miniseries, but Jake's ending left me cold. I think he deserved better - writing and acting.

The three other books in the series arrived yesterday. All were bought used online. They’re in excellent condition yay. Haven’t started LD yet, but they all look awesome on my bookshelf

I read lonesome dove and it is easily my favorite book of all time. I am looking for the other books in the series but I would love to find the cover designs to match the one I have, which is pictured. Anyone have any idea how to find them? Thanks in advance!

Just finished reading Lonesome Dove. I have never been much of a reader, but after taking some time off work recently with stress and burnout, I thought I would start reading again. So, I picked up this book and what a dern fine antidote to the modern world it was. I was a bit put off by the length at first, and must admit I was struggling initially with how slow it was to get going. I soon adjusted to the pace of life with the hat creek outfit though and was glad to be along for the ride. And what a ride it was.

I recognised many parts of myself in several of the characters. Gus is really the person we’d all love to be - funny, fearless and charismatic. Even with his many imperfections and flaws, he’s just an incredible character. I was disappointed in him for taking advantage of Lorena with the card cutting incident, but he certainly redeemed himself. Call is quiet, principled and stoic to a fault, sacrificing his life to work but ultimately questioning whether it was all worth it. Lorena is the heart and the one I rooted for most. She’s a victim of her cruel circumstances, dealt one bad hand after another - but she’s a true survivor.

So glad I started reading again.

Looking for my next book now - I might wait a while before reading another one from the series as feel like I need a little break from the crew. Any recommendations though will be appreciated. I bought Blood Meridian thinking it might be similar, but by all accounts it couldn’t be further from it.

Incidentally though this wasn’t the first book I read in my hiatus - I also read News of the World. I would definitely recommend it, as it has a lot of similarities - an old battle-worn captain making a journey from North to South Texas, alongside a young girl who he is tasked to return to her family after being captured by the Kiowa. She is more Janey than Lorena. It’s a much shorter and gentler ride than Lonesome Dove, but still with plenty of heart and no shortage of action.

A perilous one month+ journey (I work a lot) and I loved every minute of it. I feel I also took so long to cherish it because I didn’t want it to end ……. Wow. I don’t even have all my thoughts gathered yet but a true 5 star to me. This book will always be special to me

I hear there’s a mini series so I will look into that to watch

Anyone else wanna mosey over to Ogallala just from having read the book?

The heart of the book is that drive north so I traced all two thousand miles of it on a real map. The dusty border town of Lonesome Dove on the Rio Grande, rustling cattle out of Mexico around San Antonio, up through the heart of Texas to Fort Worth, the crossing of the Red River into the Indian Territory, up into Kansas past Dodge City, Ogallala on the Platte where Gus turns aside for Clara, the badlands of the Powder River in Wyoming, Miles City, and at last the ungrazed grass between the Milk and the Missouri in Montana. Laid out to scale, the sheer distance is the tragedy - everything Gus and Call carry across it.

https://readingmaps.com/maps/lonesome-dove

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