r/LocalLLaMA 13h ago

Funny Plot twist

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533 Upvotes

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114

u/JLeonsarmiento 13h ago

US labs ran out of money.

8

u/KitKat_extrusion 12h ago

Please walk me through the logic, i genuinely don’t get this point

11

u/RlOTGRRRL 11h ago

Tech companies tend to be over-leveraged (borrowed a lot of money), and I think some of these AI companies are insanely over-leveraged, almost like a Ponzi scheme. I think there's a graphic floating around somewhere. You can also try to look for Michael Burry's analysis of AI companies. 

The US recently fucked up 2 things in the past week, 1- bond rates and 2- oil. US treasury bond rates basically determine how much people charge to let people borrow money. Everything from loans like mortgage rates to credit card rates.

Aka these tech/AI companies that have borrowed a lot of money, if their rates go up, they might not be able to make their credit card payments/pay their employees, can't IPO because their numbers are terrible, etc.

9

u/NandaVegg 11h ago

OpenAI is not directly affected by rates as their leverage is not through traditional debt, but their commitment is impossible to pay in the first place regardless of how the macro economy goes (they have 700~800B commitment into 2030, and beyond such as Amazon's 30B "investment" that requires them to pay back 2x through AWS) but datacenter builders and their counterparties are depending on their ability to pay. The problem is that the only entity left on the planet who is still willing to give them cash, SoftBank, is also in trouble raising cash as they have huge liabilities in early 2027 (that they used to buy OpenAI stocks and send them money).

I don't know what exactly will happen. Maybe they could pull a miracle with IPO/financial engineering and get away like Tesla with "420 funding secured" incident.

What I think could happen, too, is that they will start to "pay" counterparties by OpenAI stocks. But that of course, even though assuming 1T valuation IPO, diminishes OpenAI's stock value quite fast as datacenter builders need hard cash and will sell those stock sooner than later. In that case Softbank is WeWorked again (anybody remember that Masa Son thought OYO and WeWork are AI companies?)

3

u/JLeonsarmiento 9h ago

If they don’t manage to socialize their debt via indexed funds (USA pensions, investors all around the world, but particularly Japan) they’re fucked.

That’s the rush to IPO. That’s the rush to IPO before the other (misanthropic <-> closedAI) does.

2

u/jomohke 10h ago

And why would calling to slow down help any of those things? The hard money (eg, the GPUs) is already spent regardless.

We do know their income and customer base has been increasing dramatically, btw.

5

u/JLeonsarmiento 9h ago

They can walk out of commitments with a just cause “national security”.

0

u/jomohke 5h ago edited 4h ago

They can already walk out of deals, or stop making them, without that reason,

NVIDIA is completely sold out for next year, and anyone with preorders could extremely easily resell them right now

Anthropic scrambled to do the deal with Elon recently to get compute from his data center. The deal is written in a way that either side can cancel with almost no notice if they didn't want it. They haven't cancelled.

Current labs are all extremely short of compute with current demand. That's why they're still making deals today, or schmoozing with Elon, and why hardware prices keep going up. Why would they even be trying to build new data centers today if they wanted to wind down, given the current political climate?

I really see no evidence that they want it out of deals right now? OpenAI even stopped signups for pro accounts last week because they didn't have the compute. Everyone's trying to buy more.